Too much customisation?

[simemo]

Simple fact is you cant make a game that will appeal to everyone. Of course you are right that it should appeal to as many as possible but there is a limit there to when the game becomes dumbed down to the extent that at launch it reaches the widest audience but soon dies off due to it being too 'shallow'.

When this game is released, it WILL be as simple or as complicated as the player wants. If he just wants to throw some paths down and plop some pre-made buildings and rides, he WILL be able to do so, however, if we wants to make a totaly bespoke build brick by brick, he can as well. I still dont see a problem with this.

Put it this way, is RCTW easy to pick up and make a park with? Yes, I guess it is. Can I make a copy of a park I know in real life or make my own theme? No, no you can't.

 

[cerealfruitcakes]

So essentially you want this,

not this,

 

[breezerHOG1]

i dont see anything wrong with either of those things cereal, I would totally play with both sets, combine them and have the simpsons murder the little kid legos [alien]

 

[cerealfruitcakes]

i dont see anything wrong with either of those things cereal, I would totally play with both sets, combine them and have the simpsons murder the little kid legos [alien]

I'm pretty sure those little lego kids are actually seconds away from biting off their heads with their creepy little plastic smiles. Look how frightened the block animals look, they know what's up.

 

[simemo]

i dont see anything wrong with either of those things cereal, I would totally play with both sets, combine them and have the simpsons murder the little kid legos [alien]

LEGO [tongue]

 

[ManiaMuse]

I've never understood why Americans put an S at the end of Lego but remove an S from maths...

 

[Minnion]

I've never understood why Americans put an S at the end of Lego but remove an S from maths...

Probably because we don't think of math in the plural...

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The game should appeal to as many as people as possible, that's the end goal of any game development project regardless of the genre or type of game. Of course the Sim/RCT crowd are the primary audience, thats goes without saying. But even people that fit themselves into that category may not want to worry about all the little details that they might be able to change. The point being that whilst there should be plenty of customisation for the core audience there should also be a level of simplicity as well for those who don't care about every little detail as well.

You could make the argument that you can never have too much customisation, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that statement, but in the end a player who wants the simpler approach should be able to do that as well.

So you think having the option to play with the little details would make people worry about them?

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So essentially you want this,
http://static.webshopapp.com/shops/009071/files/004714521/duplo-town.jpg

not this,
http://comicsalliance.com/files/2015/03/Lego-The-Simpsons-Kwik-E-Mart-630x420.jpg

Fun fact, Duplo and Lego bricks are actually compatible....

 

[breezerHOG1]

I've never understood why Americans put an S at the end of Lego but remove an S from maths...

and peoples desire for grammar on the internet is pretty amazing too

Lego = a companys name. the toy it self? doesnt matter because its not a real word.

I don't think you should pluralize math, mathematics? sure.

Glad to be on topic!!

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

So essentially you want this,
http://static.webshopapp.com/shops/009071/files/004714521/duplo-town.jpg

not this,
http://comicsalliance.com/files/2015/03/Lego-The-Simpsons-Kwik-E-Mart-630x420.jpg

Not really sure whether you are trolling or not with that in all honesty.

This is where the discussion is falling apart. I don't want anything other than a good game in the end. This isn't about 'dumbing the game down' or making it appeal to two year olds like you are suggesting. Of course the game needs to be able to be customised to a point people can create weird and wonderful things. Thats what will make PC great (and already does) and thats what I want from the game as well. BUT, there needs to be a level of simplicity to it as well for peeps to be able to just create a park without delving in too much in to the customisation.

That was the point of the original question, everyone is getting hung up on 'dumbing things down' which is a horrible expression, generally used by fanboys who don't want their game ruined as they see it. Well here is a reality check for everyone who thinks like that, its not YOUR game, its Frontier's, and Frontier need to be able to appeal to gamers of all types.

 

[dalemac89]

Well here is a reality check for everyone who thinks like that, its not YOUR game, its Frontier's, and Frontier need to be able to appeal to gamers of all types.

Frontier have never had any problems making their games appealing to a wide audience and have never had issues selling copies. RCT3 sold very well, especially considering the genre isn't all that popular in itself, especially compared to more pupular game types like FPS's or MMORPG's. Planet Coaster isn't doing too bad, considering we haven't had any similar games released for over a decade.

To be honest, I think this conversation has gone stale. I've not commented recently, but I've been keeping an eye on the thread. Nothing new is being said and conversation is just going round in circles.

Why don't we call this a day here? Frontier are a brilliant studio and they know how to make a captivating and immersive theme park simulator. Let's reserve judgement on whether the tool-set is too complicated/time consuming until at least the beta testing phase.

 

[TRS]

Can it be to customizable ? Sure it can ! Just look at theme park studio ! Many players have complained about it being to "difficult" ! I know the developer has expressed he feelings when people complained .

PC isn't that far yet, and we will have to see the end result to know .

 

[Angelis1]

Can it be to customizable ? Sure it can ! Just look at theme park studio ! Many players have complained about it being to "difficult" ! I know the developer has expressed he feelings when people complained .

PC isn't that far yet, and we will have to see the end result to know .

I 110% disagree.

I might say that by professional deformation, but absolutely nothing can be "too customizable" if done right, but ... On the other hand, it's very (VERY) simple to code a software too complicated to use, something that is not "user friendly".

Frontier can use the same concept as TPS if they want. If done intelligently, it will be very simple to use.
To be honest, it's almost already the same thing for the building tool for exemple. The only difference is that we don't have the power to recolor/retexture/import all the building elements yet AND that the UI is better imagined/built, but the concept behind is the same than TPS. And this is why many people like PC more than they should ; it's a "AAA/Next-Gen" TPS !

In fact, at Frontier, they are smart enough to gives players access to powerful "Level Designer Tool" from any "Game Engine", specialized in the design of theme parks, BUT that looks like, and that is as easy to use as, a "Video game". It's really awesome ! (At least, for the "designers" target. Because the "managers" part have different needs and, I'm sure they have a different plan for them, later)

It's just a matter of concepts and ergonomics.
That's all.

In my opinion, this "too much customisation" is a non-debate based on a problem that does not even exist (and also because it goes round in circles since few pages).

What would be interesting is to know how they are going to hold together the two targets : the creative ("designers") on one side, and the cartesian ("managers") on the other, which both "use" a different part of their brain. What I mean by that is that we already know they want to try to make work the one for the other, with the "blueprint" system. But are they going go further ? I also wonder if they have ever thought of the opposite situation : Making work the managers for the designers too ? If yes, how ? [uhh]

 

[simemo]

Agreed, something should be easy to use but there shouldnt be any limits on customization. Or you end up with a certain Atari title.... shudder!

The point is, can someone who has never played a coaster, or indeed ANY building game start this up and get something going relatively easily? I would have to say yes, they can. We dont all have to be as detailed or talanted as the likes of Silveret but it's still easy to put in a path, plop down a few rides and a few facility buildings and then learn to improve over time.

 

[Agoge]

Developers please do not listen to those who want less customization in Planetcoaster!!!! When I hear the word customization in a coaster simulator I say MORE PLEASE!! I would love to customize every object. Sims 3 offers that and in my own opinion that is the best sims title. If people cannot figure out how to lay down basic paths, structures, and rides they shouldn't be in this genre and should stick to their fps or mmorpg games. I mean no offense to those who are intimidated by creativity but seriously it's a simulator for building coaster parks! I don't want every park I make to look similar just in a different location like in previous coaster simulators. You can only play those games for so long before you realize you are staring at the same park just rearranged then get bored from the lack of options. As far as crowds go, this title will appeal mostly to people who love to build, design, manage, create, etc. If the developers dumb down the game so much they will lose that crowd who want a title with diverse options and the people who want a simple-to-play game will eventually get bored as well. Like people have previously mentioned, you cannot make all audiences happy, but you can make the people who share in your passion for coaster parks and limitless creativity happy because those people are going to be the majority audience and buyers of future titles/expansions.

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

In my opinion, this "too much customisation" is a non-debate based on a problem that does not even exist (and also because it goes round in circles since few pages).

Does not exist .. yet ...

One of the questions I was ponding was, will PC end up being too complicated, hence the thread. Its a perfectly valid question given where we are currently in the development of the game.

Indeed most players should be able to put together something half decent, even in alpha, but there should be tools to allow people to save time in other places. (Such as auto generation of terrain for example.)

Yes we are going around in circles now its true.

 

[simemo]

You may as well say, I'm worried its becoming 'too good'.

 

[breezerHOG1]

You may as well say, I'm worried its becoming 'too good'.

why are you worried about such a thing?

 

[TRS]

I 110% disagree.

I might say that by professional deformation, but absolutely nothing can be "too customizable" if done right, but ... On the other hand, it's very (VERY) simple to code a software too complicated to use, something that is not "user friendly".

Frontier can use the same concept as TPS if they want. If done intelligently, it will be very simple to use.
To be honest, it's almost already the same thing for the building tool for exemple. The only difference is that we don't have the power to recolor/retexture/import all the building elements yet AND that the UI is better imagined/built, but the concept behind is the same than TPS. And this is why many people like PC more than they should ; it's a "AAA/Next-Gen" TPS !

In fact, at Frontier, they are smart enough to gives players access to powerful "Level Designer Tool" from any "Game Engine", specialized in the design of theme parks, BUT that looks like, and that is as easy to use as, a "Video game". It's really awesome ! (At least, for the "designers" target. Because the "managers" part have different needs and, I'm sure they have a different plan for them, later)

It's just a matter of concepts and ergonomics.
That's all.

In my opinion, this "too much customisation" is a non-debate based on a problem that does not even exist (and also because it goes round in circles since few pages).

What would be interesting is to know how they are going to hold together the two targets : the creative ("designers") on one side, and the cartesian ("managers") on the other, which both "use" a different part of their brain. What I mean by that is that we already know they want to try to make work the one for the other, with the "blueprint" system. But are they going go further ? I also wonder if they have ever thought of the opposite situation : Making work the managers for the designers too ? If yes, how ? [uhh]

I don't think you understood my post . Too customizable, can become difficult to use . If Frontiers target customer is a certain age group, this can become a issue .

 

[Minnion]

I don't think you understood my post . Too customizable, can become difficult to use . If Frontiers target customer is a certain age group, this can become a issue .

Difficult in what way?
Difficult as in having trouble finding the part you want to use/place?(That could be solved with a good UI and search filters)
Difficult to find the option to edit/change/select the thing you want to edit/change?(Perhaps we could get a selection tab that shows a list of everything currently displayed on our screen with a show/hide toggle and highlights whatever object we select from the list?)
Difficult to master?(Not really a problem so long as the basics are easy to learn... Part of the fun of such a game is mastering it... If you don't have the patience for something that isn't a Skinner Box then perhaps this isn't the game for you...)

Or is it some other "Customization" problem that I'm missing? (Because I don't consider the ability to customize everything a problem in of itself, so long as it's presented to us with an easy to understand and functional UI; which so far seems to be the direction Planet Coaster is going so I'm not sure exactly what the concern with "Too much customization" is... )

 

[Abletudu]

Minnion when sunbeam says , "don't think you understood my post . Too customizable, can become difficult to use . If Frontiers target customer is a certain age group, this can become a issue ." I think (but, I might be wrong) that all he wants is plop, plop here's your park!