Modding
- Thread starter Scotty13rl
- Start date
The more I play the alpha the more I really hope for user generated content.
There base game features are awesome, and do a great job at sparking creativity. Unfortunately many of these ideas I can't do today, and probably wont be able to achieve with UGC.
If Frontier provides a way for official UGC support I feel the quality can be quite high. For example they can give us guidelines on polygon count, texture resolution, special texture types and so on. UGC can be made up to or at least close to the high standards of PC.
Without UGC I also feel like I will end up losing interest in the game much quicker. UGC keeps the game new and interesting to me.
There base game features are awesome, and do a great job at sparking creativity. Unfortunately many of these ideas I can't do today, and probably wont be able to achieve with UGC.
If Frontier provides a way for official UGC support I feel the quality can be quite high. For example they can give us guidelines on polygon count, texture resolution, special texture types and so on. UGC can be made up to or at least close to the high standards of PC.
Without UGC I also feel like I will end up losing interest in the game much quicker. UGC keeps the game new and interesting to me.
On the start, i prefeer to geed Frontier Quality material, rides, and get the best base game posible, much much much more than get the hability to import UCG or other things...
So, on my opinion, i prefeer if you use your time to improve the game and push it to the limits. Really is what i want
[big grin][yesnod]
So, on my opinion, i prefeer if you use your time to improve the game and push it to the limits. Really is what i want
[big grin][yesnod]
To those of you who think UCG is not important enough for the Devs to work on, I have a question for you.
Have you looked at any RCT3 park and thought "Its amazing" or "What awesome theming"? If you have then I would be willing to bet that in that park is UCG.
In no way am I saying forget everything else, but to say its not as important as others is insane.
If I had to list its importance to the life of PC it would right up there with the Coaster Editor.... Coaster Editor, Paths, UCG , AI, management system...
Yes (IMO) UCG is more important then even the theming that is included in the base game. If the Devs implemented UCG, it would free up them from having to make so many items in the game to begin with. If they allow the community to make the basic walls and trees/flowers, the art team could focus on other things that we, the users cant build.
Have you looked at any RCT3 park and thought "Its amazing" or "What awesome theming"? If you have then I would be willing to bet that in that park is UCG.
In no way am I saying forget everything else, but to say its not as important as others is insane.
If I had to list its importance to the life of PC it would right up there with the Coaster Editor.... Coaster Editor, Paths, UCG , AI, management system...
Yes (IMO) UCG is more important then even the theming that is included in the base game. If the Devs implemented UCG, it would free up them from having to make so many items in the game to begin with. If they allow the community to make the basic walls and trees/flowers, the art team could focus on other things that we, the users cant build.
Hopefully we get something. Even if it is their own version of the steam workshop. I know this had been lightly touched on. I go back and forth. Look at the amazing things created for RCT3. But if Frontier is cognizant of what the community wants and enjoys, maybe we will get mini updates with new features? I am sure it is hard to implement and looking at the other game, yes they have UGC but look at how it's affecting game play. One guy waited 57minutes to load a park because of UGC. Thanks but no thanks :/
I agree with your point about RCT3, however... I have looked at Planet Coaster parks and thought "it's amazing" and that IS without UGC.
I see absolutely no point is telling the developers to stop making assets so that we can do it for them. I know of another game that has taken that development route, but Frontier has some of the best game artists I've ever seen and I'd rather have the best quality objects possible in as big a number as possible made by the people who are making the game. I'm not against UGC but I think it should be something that fills the gaps the developers haven't covered. It should never be a replacement to the artists.
I was read though these posts and hope to see some kind of modding . I love to mod games ! It has its place in such games as planet coaster . But in the other hand its not so good for the devs. . The pros of modding is we get lots more content to use , The downside is that if someone were to create say a Disney theme pack, well then the devs. if modding was incorporated into the game wouldn't be able to sell that same pack . But if PC's competitor has modding, then some will consider it over PC .
I am currently testing 2 new game that will support modding . One of them has been around for years, while the other is a brand new game . The devs. for the brand new game, wasn't going to incorporate mods into the game . They were just going to sell DLC for it . I told them that it was a bad mistake as these simulation type games really needed it to stay a float . After weeks of debate the newest game will incorporate mods . Hope to see it in PC .
I am currently testing 2 new game that will support modding . One of them has been around for years, while the other is a brand new game . The devs. for the brand new game, wasn't going to incorporate mods into the game . They were just going to sell DLC for it . I told them that it was a bad mistake as these simulation type games really needed it to stay a float . After weeks of debate the newest game will incorporate mods . Hope to see it in PC .
Vampiro
Volunteer Moderator
In all fairness, in my opinion you are both right [tongue]
First and foremost Frontier should develop as much themes as possible to provide the game with some solid "building stones" for people to create awesome parks. Ofcourse thats first priority.
But after that i think having UGC is equally important -after- release of the game. There are always people who really want to make re-creations of parks or rides. Just a few example's :
- Epcot's Test Track (Would need a car theme)
- Jurassic (Would need a prehistoric theme)
- etc etc...
When you look at the requests for themes or for a stronger argument, just look at what has been done with RCT3 over the last 10 years. In no way, shape or form can Frontier supply all those themes. Nor should we expect them to. But to keep the game fresh and alive in the long run, we really need UGC i think. But once again, after release of the game as all focus should now be on the core game.
Just my 2 cents.
While I would like peoples mod pieces if they are easy to deal with. Up to release I feel they need to spend every bit of their effort to give us as many tools in game as they can. While sure, here in the early access community the mod group is high, in the overall grand scheme it is a much smaller number. They need to make sure they give as many tools to the majority as they can. I want the Coaster, track ride, transportation, and path system to be as refined as possible. The park management to be the most robust system to date. I hope they add carnival games and the guests use them and spend their money on. I want them to add as many interactive scenery pieces as they can; vending machines, coin presses, animatronic pieces, static pieces. In short to make the game as complete as possible.
After release they can add the ability for the mod community to go to town. As it is clear that Frontier wants Planet Coaster to be a flagship game and therefore they will not abandon it but constantly improve it. And when they do I hope they do it right. They do it in a way that is as easy to use for the layman as their blueprint system will hopefully be.
After release they can add the ability for the mod community to go to town. As it is clear that Frontier wants Planet Coaster to be a flagship game and therefore they will not abandon it but constantly improve it. And when they do I hope they do it right. They do it in a way that is as easy to use for the layman as their blueprint system will hopefully be.
With a few tweaks the art team could focus on other things. For instance, Why not allow us to use the same color picker as the coasters for the wall pieces? This would eliminate 75% of wall needs for parks. Give us a base texture and the option to pick a color or "Paint" the wall.
Reintroduce the "Bug" where all pieces can be rotated on all axis' and that removes another 40% of items that would not have to be made.
Those 2 things in PC and the "limited" amount of themes in the game are not so limited anymore.
I am in NO way implying that Frontier's art team is not doing an amazing job. But if you look at things like UE4 and see some of the work that you can download from the shop (some cost money), you would understand that community creations can be just as good as any professional out there. All of them? No ; Some of them? Without a doubt.
The only difference between some of the professional art/3d modelers and users is pay. Talent is everywhere.. 10,000 people make mods for PC. 100 of them are amazing and just as good as the devs. That is 100 people building content for the game that's on par with what Frontier can do. Willing to bet the art department for PC is less then 100 people...
Reintroduce the "Bug" where all pieces can be rotated on all axis' and that removes another 40% of items that would not have to be made.
Those 2 things in PC and the "limited" amount of themes in the game are not so limited anymore.
I am in NO way implying that Frontier's art team is not doing an amazing job. But if you look at things like UE4 and see some of the work that you can download from the shop (some cost money), you would understand that community creations can be just as good as any professional out there. All of them? No ; Some of them? Without a doubt.
The only difference between some of the professional art/3d modelers and users is pay. Talent is everywhere.. 10,000 people make mods for PC. 100 of them are amazing and just as good as the devs. That is 100 people building content for the game that's on par with what Frontier can do. Willing to bet the art department for PC is less then 100 people...
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[yesnod][up]
Who said that paid content from Frontier was a bad idea?
That normally comes in the form of expansion packs. Items and new mechanics that change the game completely. If frontier wants to charge money for a "Wall" pack, that's on them.
UGC in PC would be free though. I highly doubt Frontier would sign off on users adding content and charging a fee for them.
Would also like to point out that Paid content for UE4 is not the same as content for PC. That content can be used to develop games and make money... Loads of it if you have a team. Some of them are bought by game development companies that have limited resources and put into games that they are working on. It is not the same as content for 1 game that you have already bought and paid for... just sayin.
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Like I said from the beginning : The only way to legitimize the sale of "DLC" (Which is not the same thing as "Expansion Pack" that can be sold without the bad image of a DLC) is to provide (free) UGC in the same platform.
I am not one who will be using any UGC because I feel that the game should provide the options. However I can see why others would like this. I don't mind what form it comes in as long as it does not detract from what Frontier produce for those who will never use it.
On the other hand if Frontier released paid for DLC, for instance foliage packs, or a specific themed pack say roman or something then I would be fine with that. I know then that it would work for everyone, it could be used in the scenario side of the game without massive balancing issues and it keeps the revenue for Frontier coming in so they can fund full expansion packs that include new scenarios, maps, and full fledge areas such as what we had with Wet & Wild.
What I wouldn't like is a paid DLC for say one flat ride. If you had a themed pack where all the rides got say a spooky theming option and was released as the Spooky DLC and it added flat ride designs, scenery & building pieces to match that is all good to me.
I assume we are discussing this UGC for freeplay/sandbox only otherwise it could cause real issues?
Regards,
Adam
On the other hand if Frontier released paid for DLC, for instance foliage packs, or a specific themed pack say roman or something then I would be fine with that. I know then that it would work for everyone, it could be used in the scenario side of the game without massive balancing issues and it keeps the revenue for Frontier coming in so they can fund full expansion packs that include new scenarios, maps, and full fledge areas such as what we had with Wet & Wild.
What I wouldn't like is a paid DLC for say one flat ride. If you had a themed pack where all the rides got say a spooky theming option and was released as the Spooky DLC and it added flat ride designs, scenery & building pieces to match that is all good to me.
I assume we are discussing this UGC for freeplay/sandbox only otherwise it could cause real issues?
Regards,
Adam
It's one of the remaining questions.
Since Planet Coaster has a "multiplayer/sharing system", it's a little bit more complicated than just : campaign/scenario in one side, and freeplay/sandbox in the other side.
It's not as easy as RCT3, with a simple "importer"
The only discussion topic/debate remaining about modding/UGC is "How ?"
There are many solutions to integrate it.
More or less easy to use for the casual player. More or less easy to use for the content creator. More or less complete. Online, offline or both ? Directly in the game or decentralized ? Via a web platform, the application or the launcher ? Is blueprints integrate UGC ? If yes, how the price is calculated in a scenario/campaign mode ? If a park has UGC, can it be shared ? It is open to visitors or the online system is blocked ? Is UGC is moderated by the community or frontier ?
Depending on how they see UGC, we can have something very different.
So just to be clear, You would be ok with paid for content from Frontier and not use free content from users?
Perhaps its just me but I don't get that stance. Its not like the UGC is dirty or something. Many users would use the very same programs to make the content. As long as there is a way to "quality" check the UGC, I don't see the problem.
RCT3 ran into issues where no one checked up on who was making what. The market was flooded and while there were some pieces that became essential to the game (Shyguy's packs) most were one off pieces that someone used. Open the park and its missing it.
The system needs to be seamless and automatic. Built into the park save file somehow. So that it installs all custom content while it loads the park for the first time. I for one will have custom, one off ride signs in my parks. Why?, because all parks have them in real life. Would hate for someone to have to go and download a pack of content and install it every time they want to view my parks.
It is that UGC won't be designed for the scenario/management side and thus to balance it, have the guests interact and understand it, music be working with it etc will all be lost from UGC.
Anything Frontier produce on the other hand can work with this as they can provide the code needed for the guests to know what it is and how to react too it accordingly.
In freeplay/sand box this isn't such a problem which is why I asked what is the current view of UGC for it's implementation in game if it was available.
I hope that clarifies my view a little more.
While I understand what you're saying and see your side of things. I don't believe the Ai is programed that way. No doubt the Ai in PC is outstanding, but I think its more or less (X amount of scenery in radius = mood of Ai). You can place 100 wall pieces that don't make anything and the Ai will react the same was as a building with 100 pieces in it. The only thing you may have to have is when you import a piece of scenery is to let the game know what it is (Wall piece, Building attachment, nature, ect). That would only be because the game has rules set in place for each piece. For instance, walls can not be rotated on all axis' any longer.
I just don't believe the AI would care what the theming looks like as much as quantity in the radius around them.
Perhaps a DEV can chime in to allow us to understand how the Ai interacts with pieces of scenery. That would clear up a lot of issues regarding this topic.
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i think a good solution would be some for of 3rd party building app that allows people to bring in 3D files and the program will convert them to the standards of the game. Things like assigning what the object is (wall, ornament, roof, so on), assigning things like specular and bump maps, and also optimizing the files, polygons and texture to work with the programming of the game. Ultimately this would solve a lot of issues with files working within the game correctly and efficiently. It would be smart to link this up with an official online database of approved files (via this program) and people could share them within their game. Having a central online database also makes it possible to share parks which will then link to the assets used if someone else wants to use that park.
The main argument seems to be how to control and implement the custom scenery/buildings and I feel that this would be a good solution. When it comes down to it, UGC is something a lot of people will want and instead of having people try and crack the game and ultimately doing it themselves with mixed results... it would be nice if the developers thought ahead and started implementing code now that would later on support UGC. Having their own importing and editing tool will hopefully smooth out any issues that arise with connecting to the game code.
The main argument seems to be how to control and implement the custom scenery/buildings and I feel that this would be a good solution. When it comes down to it, UGC is something a lot of people will want and instead of having people try and crack the game and ultimately doing it themselves with mixed results... it would be nice if the developers thought ahead and started implementing code now that would later on support UGC. Having their own importing and editing tool will hopefully smooth out any issues that arise with connecting to the game code.