The last free big update???

[pwc1]

While I agree with you, to an extent, I think its not as bad as you make it sound. The flaw IMO is that PC lacks simplicity. RCT3 was fun FOR ME because it was simple, I could build a huge wild coaster and enjoy riding it in under 10 minutes, I could make a few simple mountains with waterfalls and caves with ease. The funny thing is though, I didnt like RCT3 at first, I thought it was more complicated than RCT2, until I got used to it and realized how similar they really are.

Now with PC, the game is far more advanced, and some of my family members would never play this game which makes me sad, because they used to enjoy RCT. But really, its not all that different. I think the biggest reason casual players dislike PC is that it no longer had a park wide grid for terrain which helps organize a park, and obviously a lot of UI things could be faster like click+drag for walls. If they could bring back a park wide grid for terrain, and a spline based wall system, I think they could start bringing back a bit more simplicity to the game.

While I do like PC, it is more difficult to build with than RCT3, and I was not too great with that either. But according to some PC fans, How dare I say that PC is difficult to use. I'm not trying to make PC like somd lame tablet game, but it could be easier to use.

 

[AngryH1]

Frontier lost their casual player base a long time ago. That's why you don't see a higher number of people playing. One million people bought this came, that's a big number, but they have about 2000 concurrent where are you getting this number let me guess Steamspy? if you are you know nothing.... right on it's homepage it says...

Disclaimers

Please note that Steam Spy extrapolates data from limited number of user profiles and thus isn't 100% correct. Mic Drop!

Unless you're insinuating that Valve doesn't accurately track its own server activity, then you can safely assume that it's under 4,000 nearly always. Which I'll grant you is a cut-off bigger than 2,000, but doesn't change his point. Either way you cut it that's a small active player community.

 

[Helena]

With that said, I rather like the new coaster design even if it takes more time. I prefer it over old RCT's now. Yes I have changed my mind. [heart]
I know it is not perfect, but it is smoother than in RCT3.

Ok, of course it would be nice for the causal players to have grid locked and plop-down-everything way. Like "Basic" setting. so ready-made basic pieces of turns and all that. maybe a little more directions than pure 4 directions but basically. It would be a good way to get back casual players that don't want to invest time to learn.

 

[spoonetti]

When I go to a funiture store to buy a wardrobe, I expect to get a complete and fully functioning cabinet. I don't want to have to buy the doors, door handles, clothes rails and drawers in addition. It's fine when the cabinet manufacturer offers some nice paid extra gadgets for the cabinet. But these things shouldn't be anything which I need to complete the Wardrobe!

So, when I buy a game, I also expect to get a complete game. If the game is still not fully complete at the day of publishing, I expect to get all these things that makes the game complete and fully functionable later for free! All other nice, but not really necessary gadgets can be offered as paid DLCs.
That's my opinion.

 

[Stream]

Frontier lost their casual player base a long time ago. That's why you don't see a higher number of people playing. One million people bought this came, that's a big number, but they have about 2000 concurrent where are you getting this number let me guess Steamspy? if you are you know nothing.... right on it's homepage it says...

Disclaimers

Please note that Steam Spy extrapolates data from limited number of user profiles and thus isn't 100% correct. Mic Drop!

I actually got it from steamcharts.com. It may not be accurate down to the individual player but it's definitely close. You're not doing the game any favors by imagining this giant player base that doesn't exist. It's just not real. Even with this new update the numbers only ticket up to about 5000 concurrent players at it's peak and then it's been coming down ever since.

 

[ojonas]

In short Yes in fact at work majority of the time only negative things are pointed out very rarely do companies / bosses always reward / compliment you very rare! Maybe this is just a British thing. Coming from an accounting background I am tought not to make errors and nowadays moved over to doing sales and I am very good at it, however my bosses are quick to point out the bad and this is just a standard thing as I have come across loads of people that have the same situations.

I am sure an intelligent person as yourself would welcome the world wide known FACT that war influences more scientific break throughs than any other time, but hey isn't war a negative thing hmmmm!

First of all, I think you need to get some new bosses. A good leader support and corrects you in a positive way when you do sometime incorrect and praise you when you do something good. Anything other than that and the company will see a much higher turn over of people working for them than if they would take a more positive approach. Few people, long term, will do well with only criticism. Eventually you will be to mentally drained that you won't perform at all. A true leader inspire, not push you down in the ground for "every" mistake you do. That goes for vendor-customer relationship as well. A customer, no matter if it is us buying this game, or a large, multi million dollar project. A good and positive relationship almost always delivered a better end result for that project and sets both parties up for a long term support and aftermarket relationship. I can see, as an extreme solution, that if this path continues and that all positive improvements just gets forgotten and drained in all the negative feedback for other items not related to the update itself they may eventually just close down shop on Planet Coaster and concentrate on Jurassic Park and Elite. The only ones that loses on this is us (especially as you all claim that there is no player base anymore so how can they make money on DLCs in that case?). We are now stuck with Atari and RCTW or Parkitect and we may have to wait another 10-15 years for a new game to come out. This is my biggest worry about Planet Coaster, not that Frontier will stop supporting the game.

As for the war reference; that is an impossible statement to evaluate. Only way you can truly say that that statement is true is if the opposite also has been evaluated. SO instead of spending all that funding on war and the peripheral development, what if all that money went to just concentrate on bringing mankind forward, to research and development, further improve schools etc. What says that we in that case would not be even further along with the "scientific breakthroughs" than what we are today? My statement is also impossible to evaluate because such a scenario will never happen (not in our lifetime at least) but the point still stands.

 

[ojonas]

I actually got it from steamcharts.com. It may not be accurate down to the individual player but it's definitely close. You're not doing the game any favors by imagining this giant player base that doesn't exist. It's just not real. Even with this new update the numbers only ticket up to about 5000 concurrent players at it's peak and then it's been coming down ever since.

Games like Planet Coaster, tycoon games in general, should not be compared to the typical AAA game of today. I am thinking of Battlefield, Call of Duty, Destiny 2, FIFA etc. Games with a very high marketing budget and a long standing, popular series with new iterations being released yearly. Those will have very high sold numbers and concurrent players...for some time. But once the first year if over and it is time for the next iteration to be released the player count drops dramatically. I bet (I have not checked the data here)that percentage-wise Planet coaster will have more concurrent average players in a month than the majority of those high budget games 18 months after release. Most likely more people are playing Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 (2004) than than Call of duty 2 (2005). Most likely it has sold better as well over the past 8 years. Planet Coaster and similar games cannot be evaluated in the same way as many other games.

 

[Schabrackenaal]

If Frontier would have established a new building construction system people would now complain that it is not like RCT was [rolleyes] Either way Frontier would have considered to have gone the wrong way [rolleyes]

In RCT3 I sometimes hated the building system, especially when I was buidling roofs high above ground. We still have some flaws in PC BUT in my opinion it works waaaaaaaaay better than in RCT3 - at least to me.[big grin]

Constructing a building in PC is complicated sometimes, I agree that some players might think it is more complicated than in RCT3 (I personally disagree here). If it is more complicated it is because we have more options today.[shocked][big grin]

I agree that the building system could be better here and there. I would love to have a function where I draw a circle or a rounded, shaped line and I would get a fence, path or wall on this line. Although this would be great we still would have difficulties to detail the walls then. Of course we could get a painting option for it but we wouldn't have the possibility to have wooden beams which stand out of the walls partly. I hope you understand what I mean, English isn't my first language[uhh]

It would be great to have a function so that we get a circle building grid for our circle based flatrides.[big grin]

So far I am still fine with building construction as it is now but I understand that some people might not have the passion or simply the time to get into it like, let's say Silvarret[big grin] I would never be able to build buildings like he does. We still have the possibility to get thousands of awesome buildings in the workshop - so I understand that the Devs don't build buildings but take there precious dev-time to implements new things or to make things better.

I don't really think casual players don't play the game because it is too complicated now. Even if there would be more simple building options they wouldn't stay at the game because they keep playing COD or something like that. A lot of people simply build something, look at it and are already bored and need something new. I don't think such people should ever tried to be attracted in the first place because it would make the game worse, not better (my opinion). A building or simulation game which wants to be good always is complicated and needs time to get in it. If it attracts too many casual players it simply wouldn't be good in simulation or design-freedom-aspects. Period.[big grin]

I also don't really think about what Frontier should or shouldn't do to attract more players, make more money or having better sales. It is their decision. I personally don't understand some marketing decisions. For example I don't understand when something is announced, but no further information is given until release. They want the hype, that's why they announce something. Then they destroy the hype themselves with not giving more information. One week before the anniversary update there was that stream which only showed the scenario editor. Park benches etc. were not shown. FAIR ENOUGH.[big grin] On release day they had a stream which showed the picnic benches etc. although everybody was already able to see it in game themselves.[rolleyes] In my opinion this stream should have been the day before release.[yesnod] Then they wanted to have another stream in which they wanted to explain the new trigger options in detail one week AFTER release (so far there wasn't this stream because of illness which is totally understandable and fine).[big grin]

I think it would be great to announce something. Two weeks prior to release one livestream. One week prior to release another livestream and from that day on every day one picture which shows new items etc. to start the hype.[big grin] One day before release an all showing livestreams to really get the hype on.[big grin] On the day of release NOTHING ( so that we play or buy that DLC).[big grin] A couple of days or a week after release another livestream to explain us certain things or answering question that came during the one week of playing.[big grin]

Frontier does it another way, which I don't understand. But I don't have to. It is their decision. Period.[big grin]

 

[breezerHOG1]

If Frontier would have established a new building construction system people would now complain that it is not like RCT was [rolleyes]

I dont agree with that. Ever since RCT1 I have wanted to be able to place walls with a simple click+drag feature. Just because a new feature is to be implemented does not mean the old feature would have to be removed. It really annoys me when somebody tosses out an idea such as "having grids for terrain" or click+drag for walls, and then somebody comes along and says "I dont want to get rid of the current system" like duh, nobody said to remove the current system, just to add on to it.

some players might think it is more complicated than in RCT3 (I personally disagree here). If it is more complicated it is because we have more options today.[shocked][big grin]

More options does mean more advanced tools which are more complicated, especially for terrain. As for walls, the system for placing walls has not changed a whole lot since RCT3, all the devs did was slap on a few extra rotation features (which are limited to non-walls) but it still begs the question, why cant we just click+drag to create a line of walls with ease? we could still have the same tools and features to replace walls with windows or add doodads, etc Personally, I dont care about rotation pieces bcuz thats too time consuming, I just want to throw up some walls and slap a few doodads onto them, not try to figure out how to make the leaning tower of piza out of art shapes

Sometimes, a game like this should be designed for casuals, but Planet Coaster does not cater to casuals, it caters to the excessive OCD builders. If this game offered more simplicity, it would have a bigger audience and more people to create things within the game

My biggest complaint is the fact that grids have not been incorporated to terrain so that we can build flat walls of terrain much easier. This would not only help casuals, but it would be useful for experienced players too

I understand that some people might not have the passion or simply the time to get into it like, let's say Silvarret[big grin]

even silv and other experienced players (like schematics team) have requested improvements to simplify things for paths, terrain, walls etc... but just bcuz somebody like Silv can be good at the game doesnt mean we should ignore improving things for other casual players

 

[Stream]

Games like Planet Coaster, tycoon games in general, should not be compared to the typical AAA game of today. I am thinking of Battlefield, Call of Duty, Destiny 2, FIFA etc. Games with a very high marketing budget and a long standing, popular series with new iterations being released yearly. Those will have very high sold numbers and concurrent players...for some time. But once the first year if over and it is time for the next iteration to be released the player count drops dramatically. I bet (I have not checked the data here)that percentage-wise Planet coaster will have more concurrent average players in a month than the majority of those high budget games 18 months after release. Most likely more people are playing Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 (2004) than than Call of duty 2 (2005). Most likely it has sold better as well over the past 8 years. Planet Coaster and similar games cannot be evaluated in the same way as many other games.

Exactly, you're proving my point when trying to disprove it. It should have a LOT higher concurrent player base than those other games. But it doesn't. It's very low compared to its sales. It has stayed low too. They didn't manage to entice the casual player enough to stick around, which is bad news moving forward. Again, don't fool yourself with false realities, you're not doing anyone a service by doing that, especially not the game.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

If Frontier would have established a new building construction system people would now complain that it is not like RCT was [rolleyes] Either way Frontier would have considered to have gone the wrong way [rolleyes]

In RCT3 I sometimes hated the building system, especially when I was buidling roofs high above ground. We still have some flaws in PC BUT in my opinion it works waaaaaaaaay better than in RCT3 - at least to me.[big grin]

Constructing a building in PC is complicated sometimes, I agree that some players might think it is more complicated than in RCT3 (I personally disagree here). If it is more complicated it is because we have more options today.[shocked][big grin]

I agree that the building system could be better here and there. I would love to have a function where I draw a circle or a rounded, shaped line and I would get a fence, path or wall on this line. Although this would be great we still would have difficulties to detail the walls then. Of course we could get a painting option for it but we wouldn't have the possibility to have wooden beams which stand out of the walls partly. I hope you understand what I mean, English isn't my first language[uhh]

It would be great to have a function so that we get a circle building grid for our circle based flatrides.[big grin]

So far I am still fine with building construction as it is now but I understand that some people might not have the passion or simply the time to get into it like, let's say Silvarret[big grin] I would never be able to build buildings like he does. We still have the possibility to get thousands of awesome buildings in the workshop - so I understand that the Devs don't build buildings but take there precious dev-time to implements new things or to make things better.

I don't really think casual players don't play the game because it is too complicated now. Even if there would be more simple building options they wouldn't stay at the game because they keep playing COD or something like that. A lot of people simply build something, look at it and are already bored and need something new. I don't think such people should ever tried to be attracted in the first place because it would make the game worse, not better (my opinion). A building or simulation game which wants to be good always is complicated and needs time to get in it. If it attracts too many casual players it simply wouldn't be good in simulation or design-freedom-aspects. Period.[big grin]

I also don't really think about what Frontier should or shouldn't do to attract more players, make more money or having better sales. It is their decision. I personally don't understand some marketing decisions. For example I don't understand when something is announced, but no further information is given until release. They want the hype, that's why they announce something. Then they destroy the hype themselves with not giving more information. One week before the anniversary update there was that stream which only showed the scenario editor. Park benches etc. were not shown. FAIR ENOUGH.[big grin] On release day they had a stream which showed the picnic benches etc. although everybody was already able to see it in game themselves.[rolleyes] In my opinion this stream should have been the day before release.[yesnod] Then they wanted to have another stream in which they wanted to explain the new trigger options in detail one week AFTER release (so far there wasn't this stream because of illness which is totally understandable and fine).[big grin]

I think it would be great to announce something. Two weeks prior to release one livestream. One week prior to release another livestream and from that day on every day one picture which shows new items etc. to start the hype.[big grin] One day before release an all showing livestreams to really get the hype on.[big grin] On the day of release NOTHING ( so that we play or buy that DLC).[big grin] A couple of days or a week after release another livestream to explain us certain things or answering question that came during the one week of playing.[big grin]

Frontier does it another way, which I don't understand. But I don't have to. It is their decision. Period.[big grin]

They could've still kept the current building system and just implemented a "press CTRL to drag out a wall"- option. Everyone is happy.

And of course it's Frontier's decision how they go about marketing this game, we are allowed to discuss and critique it though. The thing is that it does affect the future of this game and thus our involvement with this game moving forward.

 

[AngryH1]

Again, literal ports and minor reskins of the original tycoon games are out there with 10s of millions of mobile installs, hundreds of thousands of players who were active enough to leave a review, just a lot of players.

So I don't know what point is trying to be made by insinuating that Planet Coaster was doomed to never have a wider appeal from the start or something. RCT3 was a very popular game, and this very moment straight up copies of even older coaster games exhibit player activity levels that're orders of magnitude beyond what this game ever reached.

It's not as niche a genre as defenders want to pretend when it comes time to ask why this game never picked up more traction. Now obviously the mobile market is very casual and requires little investment from the players, but nonetheless, it's a rhetorical dead end to start trying to steer the conversation into the realm of lack of audience potential as an excuse for the very niche product Frontier ended up developing (that again is barely a coaster tycoon game really, it's a builder sim).

Frontier would have sacrificed a certain slice of that market share for the sake of simulation depth and performance requirements (plus being on a PC), but the point is the market interest was there, so it seems likely more of it could have been captured with a performance-sleek, user-friendly, content-deep product. i.e., with a game more like RCT3 and the other older Tycoons that are still vacuuming up money as we speak.

The spin during development was always that we were sacrificing user-friendliness and performance for the depth of simulation, but I don't think we really have anything to show on that side of the scale to balance things out. This game didn't end up being functionally any deeper or more advanced than its predecessors in most ways, just kludgier and prettier.

 

[LN]

I can see by your comment on anti-extensive park building that you probably just take from the workshop and plonk, well then I can understand why you would feel this way IMHO.

Nope. none of that.

What I meant is that I don't build entire Disney castles because yeah, those take some time

 

[FutureFear]

In short Yes in fact at work majority of the time only negative things are pointed out very rarely do companies / bosses always reward / compliment you very rare! Maybe this is just a British thing. Coming from an accounting background I am tought not to make errors and nowadays moved over to doing sales and I am very good at it, however my bosses are quick to point out the bad and this is just a standard thing as I have come across loads of people that have the same situations.

I am sure an intelligent person as yourself would welcome the world wide known FACT that war influences more scientific break throughs than any other time, but hey isn't war a negative thing hmmmm!

You see that's exactly the problem, people tend to see only the negative. I was also taught that mistakes are bad, I guess everyone in western society is taught that way. But I quickly learned to learn from my mistakes. You know a good leader runs behind the pack, not in front. I learned that lesson from nature itself, just check how wolfs behave...

My background is full of mistakes, as a graphic designer I learned mistakes don't exist, creativity does, I just reshape mistakes into art these days.

Thanks for the compliment, but an intelligent person as yourself should also know this:

To be carefull when to call something a FACT, because it's ALSO a FACT that humanity has never seen a single day without war on this planet!!! Something to think about...
It is true that mankind has had it's fair share of scientific break throughs thanks to inventions created for destruction and war, but these inventions are far from what humanity needs.
As long as there is no "any other time" and only a time of war this fact remains a theorie

 

[seeker939]

You see that's exactly the problem, people tend to see only the negative.

Running the risk to only see the negative here, butyou're still on this??!

The spin during development was always that we were sacrificing user-friendliness and performance for the depth of simulation, but I don't think we really have anything to show on that side of the scale to balance things out.

I wouldn't say there's nothing on the plus side but you have a point there. The AI and guest brain are a huge let-down. The individual needs and preferences sound great on paper, ingame it's a waste of processing power that doesn't add anything to the simulation. At this point it seems like one of the reasons for ridiculous guest behaviour. It wouldn't take away anything from the game if guests just shared stats.

This is only one example. The many shortcomings of PC are one reason why more updates are a given (if Frontier wants to keep selling DLC).

 

[Stream]

You see that's exactly the problem, people tend to see only the negative. I was also taught that mistakes are bad, I guess everyone in western society is taught that way. But I quickly learned to learn from my mistakes. You know a good leader runs behind the pack, not in front. I learned that lesson from nature itself, just check how wolfs behave...

My background is full of mistakes, as a graphic designer I learned mistakes don't exist, creativity does, I just reshape mistakes into art these days.

Thanks for the compliment, but an intelligent person as yourself should also know this:

To be carefull when to call something a FACT, because it's ALSO a FACT that humanity has never seen a single day without war on this planet!!! Something to think about...
It is true that mankind has had it's fair share of scientific break throughs thanks to inventions created for destruction and war, but these inventions are far from what humanity needs.
As long as there is no "any other time" and only a time of war this fact remains a theorie

If you don't know that something is a mistake, you can't learn from it. That's where critique and discussions come in. Yet every time anyone critiques the game in here they're lambasted by fanboys claiming everything is in this game is amazing and people are just being haters. Every discussion ends the same, every single one.

 

[FutureFear]

If you don't know that something is a mistake, you can't learn from it. That's where critique and discussions come in. Yet every time anyone critiques the game in here they're lambasted by fanboys claiming everything is in this game is amazing and people are just being haters. Every discussion ends the same, every single one.

You see it's not about not pointing out the mistakes, it's about how we point them out. It's true sometimes we need outside help to see our mistakes, we all make them, we all need them.
I'm not perfect, you aren't and nothing or no one around us is, so Frontier can't make planet coaster "a perfect game" but we can help to make it better.

I just try to point out that to much negativity is not good for the community, the game and Frontier. They do the best job they can and no matter what we do or say there will always be mistakes in it.
So I rather point those mistakes out in a friendly respectfull way, and praise them on the good things, then to corrupt these official forums with such negativity that new(er) players won't even buy the game because of our comments, but sadly that's EXACTLY what's happening here.

Trust me I too want to see, zoo's, more trees & bushes, better terrain tools, dark(ride) & glass walls, better menu's/ search options, swimming pools, weather, fairbooths, more themes (arabian, jungle, asian,...),etc.

Just like everyone else, I was also dissapointed after the expo reveal for planet coaster that there wasn't more to go on, even now with 1.4... update(s) i'm still waiting on ALOT of stuff we want to see in game. I agree with alot of people that the game isn't finished yet, and i too want to see more free updates and payed DLC's aswell. I'll gladly pay for more content, like the spooky pack etc.

The difference is, I don't go all mad, gloating, blaiming at Frontier because they made a mistakes or when something isn't in the game yet. Instead I deffend their work, praise when they deserve it and try to explain to this wonderfull community how things work (in & outside the game), help wherever i can, make suggestion, show my (ingame) work and yes comment on negativty.

All that so this game can and will have a future.

 

[seeker939]

Like it or not, this is an open forum. You don't get to decide how people give feedback you will just have to deal with it. Sorry guys, but would you mind stopping this pointless discussion on feedback? Or do we need a mod to step in before we get back to topic here?

 

[spoonetti]

Like it or not, this is an open forum. You don't get to decide how people give feedback you will just have to deal with it. Sorry guys, but would you mind stopping this pointless discussion on feedback? Or do we need a mod to step in before we get back to topic here?

could be my words [up]

 

[Joël]

Thanks for the interesting discussion about feedback.

Would you guys be able to get back on topic now? That would be appreciated .

 

[HeatherG]

sying it's the "last update" means most recent. It WAS the last free update