Pushing the bounderies: Elite/StarCitizen

[SlimExpert]

@birdman

I found SC first, and was almost ready to buy, but $100 put me off, so I held back, then I found ED. As an ex-Brit living in Texas, I was familiar with Elite, even the early BBC version.

But I held back and watched to see what would happen.

Suffice to say, most people seem to have had your exact reaction, delays, poor game play from SC, while ED felt solid the fun.

Now, crunch time came, as ED's life time pass was finishing, so I jumped on ED with a few days to go. Played Beta 1 and I am very happy.

I still follow SC of course, the 10 for the chairman is something I think FDEV should do personally. Chris Roberts does have a great vision, I hope he makes the game he wants, but it will be a year before that happens I feel.

Of course FDEV have plenty to do also, but it seems like they have a good foundation to build from. The Cobra engine seems built for this game, whereas CryEngine while very good at FPS stuff, is being pushed beyond its limits by CIG.

I very much like the ships in SC, I think their attention to detail is excellent, if you are walking around your ship in your hanger great, but, I want to fly my ship, so the cockpit is the main attraction.

Of course if you turn off the holo projectors on ED like when you land, the cockpit looks horrible - like a transit van dashboard. but when they are lit up, they look awesome!

I think there is room for both systems, and in many ways I truly hope they both are very successful. I am sure we will see a little copying in both directions, and that is just fine.

Who knows, in a couple of years, I might join SC proper, but for now, ED has me, and I will put my energies into it alone.

(okay maybe Planetary Annihilation too)

Slim

 

[warbaby2]

Of course if you turn off the holo projectors on ED like when you land, the cockpit looks horrible - like a transit van dashboard. but when they are lit up, they look awesome!

At least they look like they do in full 3d, not are completely new models for flight more, like they are in SC right now... seriously, look closely, the cockpits in Arena Commander are different models then the explorable ones in the hangar module.

 

[SlimExpert]

At least they look like they do in full 3d, not are completely new models for flight more, like they are in SC right now... seriously, look closely, the cockpits in Arena Commander are different models then the explorable ones in the hangar module.

Really? is it a LOD thing, or completely different.

I have to admit when flying around (in either game) you typically don't get too close to the other ships, so I imagine the ship models on the outside are quite different too.

Slim

 

[Tempered]

I've backed and played both games. I play Elite almost every day. I start up Star citizen to get the latest patch and then quit. Star Citizen has some serious graphical flash. Chris Roberts games have always been about graphics and cinematics first and foremost. Star Citizen is going to be a great game, but a different kind of game than Elite, with different priorities. I am actually really looking forward to the single player campaign in Star Citizen, which is where I think it will shine the most. As far as the ship designs go, I love the cockpits, but hate the over all ship aesthetics. They all look entirely too flimsy and awkward.

I would love to see better cockpit and hud design in Elite, but other than that, I can't think of any thing more in a space game that I would want that Elite is not going to deliver. The ship designs in Elite are more to my liking. They look solid, with a hidden complexity under the hood. Graphically, Elite looks good enough for me to be completely immersed, especially when playing with the Oculus Rift.

Only time will tell which game is going to end up being the most fun to play, but I'm betting that Elite is going to be more my style. The game I have probably spent the most time playing would probably be either M&B or UFO "enemy unknown". Both of which had sub standard graphics for their time.

 

[Panzer]

So far, seems a lot like a three-way krieg brewing between Eddy here, SC and EVE. All of them have specific advantages - EVE has the multiplayer mechanics figured out to the point of absurdly large scale of interactions between players. SC has the startup cash that bought great eyecandy and I wouldn't underestimate their designers' experience with making multiplayer work - Freelancer turned out to be more long-lived than its release-day state would let anyone suspect. Eddy... Bit of a wild card. The crew is as solid as it gets, but the previous elite titles happened a while ago. Consequentially, they didn't have to deal with the kind of internet we have today.

my advice if you want to hear it?

Graphics and eyecandy become utterly irrelevant over time - not just because technology keeps moving forward, but long-term players (deliberately plural) gradually become accustomed to the sights. Of course, as long as there's a diverse set of rewarding things to do in the game.

Also, micropayments - probably yes. DLC - nope.

 

[Armour]

Everything in this game feels solid, spaceships feel like ships in space with some mass to them, not plasticky and floaty. Also, you feel like an independent pilot in this universe. You aren't a sales rep walking around a giant showroom full of flashy vehicles with empty tanks, or a corporate tool planning mergers and acquisitions - "spreadsheets at ten paces". I know which one I prefer.

 

[darshie76]

I believe you need to make a distinction: between the graphic of the hangar in SC and the one for the real game. They are 2 totally different things. As now SC graphic is OK in the dogfight module; the UI is almost totally missing, and all the bells and whistles promised are far from being implemented in the actual game.

Same goes for ED....watch the video made with the 2 capital ships, and you may get the idea of how the final product may look like...that was no CGI movie; that was in engine footage with overlay done in 3dMax for some parts. To me both games will express a very satisfying visual orgy of goodness, once released, with the difference that SC will suffer plenty for the performances, by all that extras that they are putting in game, like absurd LOD with ships that are 300K poly at max LOD, and very complex damage system.

ED has ships that are maybe less demanding, but still look a lot like a gorgeous jump on the NASA site, with the difference that here you drive the boat, instead of just watch videos or images

Plus they are very different, game wise, so obviously, the graphics for each will reflect it.

CR loves colors and WOW stuff; DB loves realistic and spectacular scenery, that mimic the reality, so it is just natural that one will look like a carnival in Venice, while the other will look like a naturalistic slideshow

It is up to you to pick which style you prefer...honestly when fighting I have no time to look that cool injector that rotate 20 degrees to show the back of the engine and such...I see a square running in front of me and the HUD that overlay on it To me if the ships has 400K poly or 4K, makes really little difference. What matters to me is the overall scenery look, the realism (to a certain extent...in space there is no sound, can't see laser, no explosions...that would be boring as hell! ).

I want a station with lots of details, when I am landing on it; I want a nice background and a great texture set for planets and other space elements; visuals for how lights react on the different surfaces; and a cool cockpit that does not give me headache looking at it, but is functional.

Plus ED has no external visuals, so the only time that you see your ship is when docked; which means that if I am flying a sausage or a roach motel, I wouldn't mind, as long as the cockpit is well done

Then consider this: ED can always improve visuals in a couple of years after the release; while SC cannot scale down, once that they gave expectations to pledgers and people that put money in the game; which is a great advantage...is easier to add than take out

 

[Ttaskmaster]

Visually, both look pretty good to me.
The main view in ED looks OK, though I'm not a fan of holographic displays and would prefer they be shown on some kind of monitor. However, the cockpit free-look views look great.

SC is pretty, but as someone else mentioned, the level of prettiness gets forgotten once you're more focussed on weapon power, enemy range and missile alerts!!

Currently, gameplay is king and ED wins hands down. After watching someone else play for an hour, I can hop in a Sidewinder and make my way quite happily around the galaxy without a problem.
In SC I can barely hold the crosshair steady enough to get a hit in before I'm splatted across my cockpit screen!!

 

[Uridium]

Sorry but visuals aside.... I watched a youtube video with some guys 'reviewing' the latest 'cash-grab', I mean ship, to be released in SC.

it was some full on do everything, push the button to win, ship. Naturally it costs a butt load of real life $$$, and the main thing the reviewers kept going on about was how it had a Jacuzzi inside!!!!

And with that, I knew I was backing the right horse, here with FDEV.

 

[Ttaskmaster]

it was some full on do everything, push the button to win, ship. Naturally it costs a butt load of real life $$$, and the main thing the reviewers kept going on about was how it had a Jacuzzi inside!!!!

It also requires multiple persons in order to fly it, so you need friends, hired NPCs or NPCs that you 'own' (through buying extra character slots (currently only available by buying packages that include further copies of the game) and using those characters as NPCs.

I do still believe that Star Citizen is gonna be a wicked game, but only if they manage to pull off everything they're planning...

 

[MiaDK]

Someone mentioned Elites magnificent hyperjumps ...

im like yyyydrrrk. Cool build up, sometimes good sound, little stutter, medicore effect that show me stars racing past me, despite my destination beeing the closest star ?!?!?!?!?! Im all for gampleay, but seeing 1000 star racing past me, when there shuld be none is wierd. They shuld really throw a few more iterations of hyperjump ideas/effects on the table.

 

[Herne]

Someone mentioned Elites magnificent hyperjumps ...

im like yyyydrrrk. Cool build up, sometimes good sound, little stutter, medicore effect that show me stars racing past me, despite my destination beeing the closest star ?!?!?!?!?! Im all for gampleay, but seeing 1000 star racing past me, when there shuld be none is wierd. They shuld really throw a few more iterations of hyperjump ideas/effects on the table.

pretty sure that effect is just a place holder atm

 

[xxThe_Dice_manxx]

Someone mentioned Elites magnificent hyperjumps ...

im like yyyydrrrk. Cool build up, sometimes good sound, little stutter, medicore effect that show me stars racing past me, despite my destination beeing the closest star ?!?!?!?!?! Im all for gampleay, but seeing 1000 star racing past me, when there shuld be none is wierd. They shuld really throw a few more iterations of hyperjump ideas/effects on the table.

I believe it has something todo with folding space, see here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/230681554/3/FRAME-SHIFT-DRIVE

 

[Darth Sidious]

I said it before and am saying it again graphics might just be SC's achilles mind you im having the screen a couple of centimetres away. The frame rate is going to be much more important then what we're used to.

Then elite is written in Cobra David's own game engine. David you can consider him a procedural generation guru.
I don't think weve seen much yet.

 

[Alric]

I find that Arena Commander doesn't look nearly as good in play as it seems. The illusion is quickly shattered and it feels like a FPS map with lots of visual trickery.

Much if that is placeholder of course, and there's no doubt so a things look gorgeous.. Like the ships. Other than that, they have a different approach with 'hand crafted' environments, so there will always be an element of it being staged. Overall, I think they have a lot of work to do to make those shiny visuals actually convincing. I'm sure they will get there though.

E : D rightly or wrongly has just gone wysiwyg with their stuff. When you see gameplay or a promotion, that's just what the game looks like, right now. And you can fly around all you like, it will look just as good/bad from every angle.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Someone mentioned Elites magnificent hyperjumps ...

im like yyyydrrrk. Cool build up, sometimes good sound, little stutter, medicore effect that show me stars racing past me, despite my destination beeing the closest star ?!?!?!?!?! Im all for gampleay, but seeing 1000 star racing past me, when there shuld be none is wierd. They shuld really throw a few more iterations of hyperjump ideas/effects on the table.

It is placeholder, and will be more "custom" according to your location.

 

[Adept]

That is not really correct, they can build a game to fit the console, which will easily run on a pc. However, a game built to fit the pc first, will not run on a console in the same fashion.

Your right any game can go to console, just they will need two lines of dev to keep pc gamers happy, well me for one..

Not true. Elite is being built on the Cobra engine, which gets so familiar with the hardware that it's probably grounds for harassment. It's a PC / Mac desktop game, through and through. PS4 (and Xbox One) _are_ PCs. They are affordably packaged midline gaming PCs, no different from the stuff many of us have at home (better than my current PC hardware actually, which runs Elite with everything on high for now).

The Cobra is extremely scalable. Over time it will mean that while a possible console port will continue to look good, the PCs will be able to go into ever higher resolutions, and toggle on more graphical treats. Having a console port is no threat what so ever.

What is confusing you, I think, is the trend that we've seen in game series like Prince of Persia and GTA. Those gaming studios started to make the games primarily for the consoles, and then a PC port later. There the limitations of the consoles of course dictated what the PC port would be like.

Elite is not like that. There's no need to panic.

 

[Crystles]

I personally could care less about visual fidelity in ED... It could have mincraft graphics for all I care, but the different mode of gameplay elements and flight mechanics is what I find the most interesting.

ED isnt out to set any records (unlike SC of whom wants to be the next big thing people will benchmark against), but despite that they've created a beautiful looking game and did a great job keeping the feel of the original ships, they actually look like high res versions of their counterparts and how I imagined they would have been.

IMO, the ships in Elite are much more "realistic" to how a person would actually design a space ship for personal long term use. No need for superficial wings, any bits or bobs sticking out, just a hard shell protecting against the cold void. Very compact, function over aesthetics kinda design.

Star Citizen on the flip side takes a more "traditional" take on ships, where they more resemble atmospheric fighters (Yeah I know, theyre all rated for atmospheric flight too, but still thats not nearly the focus), but they also did a phenominal job of working it all in together and fitting out how it all works together.

All that said, we really havnt seen how SC will do their PU, but IMO ED has done amazing so far. Gorgeous visuals, and some really awesome cosmic vistas to see.

 

[Im_Lost]

I find that Arena Commander doesn't look nearly as good in play as it seems. The illusion is quickly shattered and it feels like a FPS map with lots of visual trickery.

That's because it is. The Cry Engine is primarily an FPS engine and has limited map sizes so the only way to make it look big is by using illusions. If you have ever mapped on FPS engines (e.g. the unreal engine) it's easier to understand the limitations. Basically it's a Crysis map with no terrain or gravity. Then has a fancy skybox wrapped round it. There is absolutely no way you could fit an actual sized planet in one, or even an average sized town

 

[cpbtrading]

What is confusing you, I think, is the trend that we've seen in game series like Prince of Persia and GTA. Those gaming studios started to make the games primarily for the consoles, and then a PC port later. There the limitations of the consoles of course dictated what the PC port would be like.

Elite is not like that. There's no need to panic.

No, TOM, TOH, A3, A2, all Bohemia Interactive games (pc games), won't get those onto a console and run anywhere near the quality or content provided.
New consoles carry the 7770 and 7850 series or equiv (AMD) I believe. These are cards that are not currect for heavy pc games, they're fast becoming old.

They will have to upgrade cards to come near to mid-high end pc at the moment.
Yes ED will play on console, I agree, but console is not pc, unfortunately. They have a good way to go yet before console catches the pc possibilities.

That is why ED may be held back to function better on console. That's what I'm driving at.

Plus I believe the cards being used have been clocked back for the new consoles, not sure why that is.

Don't forget console will run for 3-5yrs with those cards, that's a long time out of date in pc terms. Especially when they're starting, more or less, out of date at the beginning.