The FSS - How the Right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

[-VR- Max Factor]

By 'resolving' I mean turning 'unexplored' into a named object and uncovering the composition data.
Climbing over the simplistic 'gameplay wall' to be able to fly to bodies removes the purpose (for me) of flying to the bodies since nothing will happen when I get there - they're already resolved

And noo, the FSS doesn't stop me doing anything - I can still explore by parallax and the invisible DSS. I'd simply prefer to use an ADS rather than parallax.

It's really simple Max, the FSS messes up the way I like to explore and so I'd rather not use it. I enjoyed the old way, so I'd like to have that option back.

The FSS messed up all of the way we explore. We all need to adapt and change.

from

And why exactly is that a problem?
As Old Duck says, it works perfectly well that way already in the Bubble, so what's the big deal about it working elsewhere?
Are we back to exploration snobbery and 'true explorers' again?

Because it removes the gameplay loop that Fdev have now put in the game. Whether you like that gameplay loop is irrelavent. I can't see Fdev being happy about putting in a mechanic that completely bypass' the work they have done.

I'm just looking at it realistically.

It also doesn't make any kind of sense having both either as I have explained a number of times.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

The FSS messed up all of the way we explore. We all need to adapt and change.

from
Because it removes the gameplay loop that Fdev have now put in the game. Whether you like that gameplay loop is irrelavent. I can't see Fdev being happy about putting in a mechanic that completely bypass' the work they have done.

I'm just looking at it realistically.

It also doesn't make any kind of sense having both either as I have explained a number of times.

FDev have put a load of gameplay loops in the game only to remove them later - just look at Engineering.
They haven't forced a gameplay loop on any other profession at any other point in the game - blaze your own trail, remember? - so there's no reason why explorers should be treated differently.

As for 'sense', this thread was started to point out where the FSS doesn't make any sense - it's a game, first and foremost, so that argument is nonsensical.

I have adapted and changed - mostly by playing other games.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

And why exactly is that a problem?
As Old Duck says, it works perfectly well that way already in the Bubble, so what's the big deal about it working elsewhere?
Are we back to exploration snobbery and 'true explorers' again?

Because all of those systems have already been discovered and visited a number of time.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Because all of those systems have already been discovered and visited a number of time.

That doesn't explain why it's a problem.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

FDev have put a load of gameplay loops in the game only to remove them later - just look at Engineering.

The game play loops of engineering have not it gone. They are still there.

They haven't forced a gameplay loop on any other profession at any other point in the game - blaze your own trail, remember? - so there's no reason why explorers should be treated differently.

Are you serious.

As for 'sense', this thread was started to point out where the FSS doesn't make any sense - it's a game, first and foremost, so that argument is nonsensical.

Yup. And the more stupid it gets the worse the game becomes.

I have adapted and changed - mostly by playing other games.

Good for you.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

That doesn't explain why it's a problem.

Different conditions give different results. It's just how the mechanic and the game world works. Learn to live with it or play
something else.

 

[Faded Glory]

Because it removes the gameplay loop that Fdev have now put in the game. Whether you like that gameplay loop is irrelavent. I can't see Fdev being happy about putting in a mechanic that completely bypass' the work they have done.

What gameplay loop?

Players drop into a system. They decide they want to scan a system based upon what they see is in it. The fact that they get the information from the FSS screen or a system map screen seems to me semantics and simply down to user preference. Certainly, both screens give information on what types of bodies are there and how many bodies are there.

At that point the gameplay then becomes scanning a system. At the moment that is done solely using the FSS. That gameplay would still be there, completely unaltered regardless of how the player got to that point, but a system map reveal would add the option to target a body, fly to it and passively scan it as before.

Adding an additional way of doing something doesn't undo for a second the work they have done with the FSS.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Different conditions give different results. It's just how the mechanic and the game world works. Learn to live with it or play
something else.

Yes, it's how the game world works.
Up until v3.3 the game world worked differently.
No reason why it couldn't be changed again in the future.

 

[Chaparral]

Not really complaining about the process. Complaining about the visual representation of the bodies. The images are replaced with daggers - unnecessarily. The daggers are redundant anyways since a text description appears next to each highlighted squiggle. FDEV already has these images. Just replace the silly daggers with the body graphics already in game.

Just think about the design decision for a second. High res image replaced by a line, then replaced during scan update by a high res image.

If you actually use the thing, you don't wait for the high res image to resolve, you zoom-pop scroll to the next one.

In terms of time engaged in the activity, your looking at empty circles and daggers for far more time than the high res images of the planets.

That's visually - well - awful. Repetitively awful. Pretty much bad visual design.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I have adapted and changed - mostly by playing other games.

I have tried various ways of coping with the FSS. But the reluctance to jump to another system and have to go through the FSS each and every time is just too grating. The fun of the anticipation of what could be found in the next system is overshadowed by the chore of pointing at blobs each and every system.

Which resulted into resorting to cherry picking ELWs, WWs and AWs which made me an insane amount of credits, but was also very dull indeed.

I give Frontier credit for the FSS mechanism though. I always wondered what kind of mechanism they'd come up with. And as far as that's concerned, if I could use it in a more focused way, it's not that intrusive. Although it does need quite a bit of streamlining. But every system? No thanks.


edit: and there haven't been any good games released lately, so not that many "other games" to chose from.

 

[Duck & Jenny]

And why exactly is that a problem?
As Old Duck says, it works perfectly well that way already in the Bubble, so what's the big deal about it working elsewhere?
Are we back to exploration snobbery and 'true explorers' again?

Speaking as a true explorer myself, I had first opposed the ADS working with the FSS for the reason I mentioned, but the more I thought about it, the less it bothered me. Finding a system with an undiscovered ELW is the hard part. I highly doubt the average person will use the "exploit" I detailed to just tag the ELW and nothing else. Odds are they'll scan the entire system and fly to the ELW to map it, thus the advantage of the ADS is truly minimal. All that said, I stick with my desire to see any ADS being a separate, optional module like it used to be.

 

[Duck & Jenny]

BTW, I am not a fan of this "insta-discover" feature that causes all planets around my ship be fully discovered, cataloged, and credited to me. THIS is easy mode on steroids! The exception is any star I'm fuel scooping, and any planet I'm focused on for a period of time (the old DSS method). Otherwise I should have to scan it with the FSS, not just drive by and wave.

Too bad combat doesn't work this way - any ship I fly by just blows up!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

THIS is easy mode on steroids!

Asteroids, surely.

 

[Faded Glory]

I have tried various ways of coping with the FSS. But the reluctance to jump to another system and have to go through the FSS each and every time is just too grating. The fun of the anticipation of what could be found in the next system is overshadowed by the chore of pointing at blobs each and every system.

Which resulted into resorting to cherry picking ELWs, WWs and AWs which made me an insane amount of credits, but was also very dull indeed.

I give Frontier credit for the FSS mechanism though. I always wondered what kind of mechanism they'd come up with. And as far as that's concerned, if I could use it in a more focused way, it's not that intrusive. Although it does need quite a bit of streamlining. But every system? No thanks.


edit: and there haven't been any good games released lately, so not that many "other games" to chose from.

Yes, as I said in another post, in another thread (I think) in a galaxy far, far away....

I'm actually scanning less systems now. Not because it's too time consuming, obviously it isn't, but because I can't be bothered. I don't need the credits or the rank so I just don't have the motivation to scan a system even though it would be potentially valuable.

While I personally have found that I do get nearly all the information I need about whether to scan a system or not from the FSS, I would have no issue at all with players being given the option to fit an ADS. The scenario in which I'd use it if I decided to would be when dropping in on a system with gas giants that had nothing else of interest to me I might fire up the ADS to see whether any of the gas giants merited a closer look - because I agree, and have said all along, that players shouldn't be expected to scan bodies to see if they want to scan them, no matter how quick and easy the process.

But that would only add to the exploration experience by getting me to scan more things. Things that at the moment I pass by.

 

[Faded Glory]

Finding a system with an undiscovered ELW is the hard part.

I highly doubt the average person will use the "exploit" I detailed to just tag the ELW and nothing else. Odds are they'll scan the entire system and fly to the ELW to map it, thus the advantage of the ADS is truly minimal. All that said, I stick with my desire to see any ADS being a separate, optional module like it used to be.

As a non true explorer I agree entirely...

The size of the galaxy makes finding an interesting system a challenge. Whether the interesting object in a system is an ELW or something else entirely is not really relevant.

I always used to scan a system in its entirety if I scanned anything, so now my way of exploring is very much faster, and as you describe, now I just map 'special' bodies.

 

[Maro-Val]

I m happy for those of you who like this fss but for me.. it just ruined exploration. I managed to follow dw2 to the core, but that was it. No way i am going out again and do that stupid blob hunting 2d mini game and zoom in/out like there is no tomorow.
You can have it, along with the codex that doesn't show our discoveries.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

What gameplay loop?

Players drop into a system. They decide they want to scan a system based upon what they see is in it. The fact that they get the information from the FSS screen or a system map screen seems to me semantics and simply down to user preference. Certainly, both screens give information on what types of bodies are there and how many bodies are there.

The FSS is a part of the gameplay loop. Removing the need to use the FSS removes a part of the gameplay loop FDev have added. It ain't rocket science. You may not like that part of it, but it is still there.

At that point the gameplay then becomes scanning a system. At the moment that is done solely using the FSS. That gameplay would still be there, completely unaltered regardless of how the player got to that point, but a system map reveal would add the option to target a body, fly to it and passively scan it as before.

The FSS is the gameplay of finding what is in the system and seeing the system map.

Adding an additional way of doing something doesn't undo for a second the work they have done with the FSS.

That's how I would see it.

 

[Burke]

That's how I would see it.

Is there any kind of compromise that you could think of that would allow everybody to enjoy the game? Some way that you could be happy that wouldnt exclude the photo explorers?

 

[HAMM3R]

I think in my ideal Elite world you'd have a 'quick-honk' that pings the system revealing just the amount of bodies in the system and some approximation of their size/distance, giving you a rough idea of the system. It would show some kind of wireframe/wave signature info on the system map, just enough so you'd eventually be able to tell if the system is interesting or not. It would also pay a little when selling the data.

Second honk would take a bit longer and it would show much more accurate results of where and what the bodies are made of. Kind of like the old honk with an added change of error, so possible ELW could turn out to be a WW etc. This would bring out the planet graphics in the system map and some basic compositional info and it would pay more and warrant the discovery upon selling the data. But to get the actual data on atmosphere, pressure, gravity and all that jazz you'd have to get closer to the planet and throw some probes at it.

All this would of course be accessible from the pilot's seat, through a dedicated system map screen in similar fashion as the station screen, but this one you could bring up with a push of a button and check if the system looks interesting enough to stick around or should you just keep going. There'd be no need to jump between interfaces and system maps while flying, jumping and honking.

That said, I haven't even tried the new system. My hotas broke down before it was implemented so I'm just talking out of my butt here

 

[Faded Glory]

The FSS is a part of the gameplay loop. Removing the need to use the FSS removes a part of the gameplay loop FDev have added. It ain't rocket science. You may not like that part of it, but it is still there.

I have no problem with the FSS. I'd have thought that would be blindingly obvious by now.

I just don't see any reason why alternative types of gameplay shouldn't be available to those who want it. The FSS has obvious advantages that nobody (from what I can tell) is trying to take away from it. Want to scan systems quickly without the need to fly to bodies? Use the FSS. Want to identify planets with POI's without flying to them first? Use the FSS.

An optional ADS module that simply provides a low level 'unexplored' system overview doesn't take any of that away from the FSS gameplay.

The FSS is the gameplay of finding what is in the system and seeing the system map.

Yes, the FSS is a way of seeing what's in a system and locating and scanning the bodies without the need to fly to them. The fact that it populates the system map with explored bodies is simply a progression. Targeting an unexplored body in the system map and either flying to it and passively scanning it or subsequently using the FSS to locate it and scan it from a distance resulting in it becoming explored in the system map is also just a progression, and as I've said before would likely be slower and less efficient than doing the whole thing from the FSS.

But there's no reason why both options / gameplay methods shouldn't be available to those who want to do things differently, in my opinion obviously.