The FSS - How the Right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Very much this. It makes cherry picking even easier then ever. People talk about the FSS as cherry pickers heaven when in actuality it is no different to before, but having the ADS and FSS functionality is truly cherry pickers heaven.

From all you've mentioned previously.. isn't that valid gameplay though? Sounds like a pretty attractive "gameplay" loop.. at least you get agency then. You could take in a notion of what you're looking for, have an ability to go seek it out, then use the new tool to have your way with it. Why should people need to suffer trial and error spinning around often aimlessly waiting for arrows on a reticule? I actually use that trick extensively in the bubble and it works really well.

If you're worried about credits that's frontiers fault, maybe suggest a flat fee for all bodies or make the rewards tied to gameplay (like the efficiency bonus) rather than rng lootbox mechanics.

My original reason for not using it was forcing myself to try it would make me quit for good but it seems the choice has been made for me at this point. Im starting to see the odd post popping up now about how the new mining is just as bad in its way "half baked" and we can all see the new lighting sucks. They did all this (probably in a couple of weeks tbh) to give the impression of new and exciting things just before christmas. They ruined the game to con new sales. Thats Fdev.

Really, we forum folk are that interesting? Im actually playing and about to quit myself.. found subnatutica.. bye! Well i vouch for other things though:

• Since the second day of beta i've been running my heavy handed destaturation reshade profile and only rarely taken issue. The other day, i was testing out new hardware without the reshade and almost threw up. You have to fix it, i can't believe people actually put up with it. Its just dumb the way its implemented. There's nothing else for it. David Brabens 14 yr old nephew doing work experience again.
• Mining isn't bad but don't follow the guides. The status quo is by and for players who won't do anything unless credits per hour. For me, painite mining in overlapping hotspots creates a condition where you can mine like you always did, but will actually get paid for it (you really will, every 2-3 astroids has painite), and can take full advantage of the new mechanics when you get the rng. What the kids do on youtube i find impossible to have fun with, try something else. The same as wether you bothered with the last 300million passenger exploit goldrush or just stayed in robigo.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I have no problem with the FSS. I'd have thought that would be blindingly obvious by now.

I just don't see any reason why alternative types of gameplay shouldn't be available to those who want it. The FSS has obvious advantages that nobody (from what I can tell) is trying to take away from it. Want to scan systems quickly without the need to fly to bodies? Use the FSS. Want to identify planets with POI's without flying to them first? Use the FSS.

An optional ADS module that simply provides a low level 'unexplored' system overview doesn't take any of that away from the FSS gameplay.



Yes, the FSS is a way of seeing what's in a system and locating and scanning the bodies without the need to fly to them. The fact that it populates the system map with explored bodies is simply a progression. Targeting an unexplored body in the system map and either flying to it and passively scanning it or subsequently using the FSS to locate it and scan it from a distance resulting in it becoming explored in the system map is also just a progression, and as I've said before would likely be slower and less efficient than doing the whole thing from the FSS.

But there's no reason why both options / gameplay methods shouldn't be available to those who want to do things differently, in my opinion obviously.

Nothing becomes explored in the system map after using the FSS. Discovered, yes, explored no.

As to reasons, I'm sure there are, but you will have to ask Fdev that, but I doubt they will answer.

This is their game and if they don't want the ADS in the game, them so be it. It's not about what you want or what I want, it's what Fdev want in their game. I would prefer something else entirely, but I haven't got what I want. Why should you or anybody else. Maybe we should get Fdev to make our own personal exploration mechanic for each person. Sorry but no. This is Fdevs game and they have removed the ADS I am assuming for a reason.

 

[Burke]

Really, we forum folk are that interesting? Im actually playing and about to quit myself.. found subnatutica.. bye!

Some advice. Play hardcore, accept that perma death as part of survival on an alien world. Im actually playing it myself, the game does not stand up well to repeated play thrus but im going to play without using the cyclops this time. Dont cheat, dont look on the interent. If you approach the game this way i find it to be one of the best games ever made. I cant praise it highly enough. It might not look it but its actually a survival horror. Its truely beautiful aswell. (forgive it the flaws like the popup an occasional clipping bug) As for the forum folk, well i am enjoying watching this same argument go round and round still. I dont think anybody from fdev is looking or even cares but i wish all those asking for the mistake to be corrected good luck.


BTW maxfactor. I didnt think so, thats why i asked that question.

 

[Faded Glory]

Nothing becomes explored in the system map after using the FSS. Discovered, yes, explored no.

As to reasons, I'm sure there are, but you will have to ask Fdev that, but I doubt they will answer.

This is their game and if they don't want the ADS in the game, them so be it. It's not about what you want or what I want, it's what Fdev want in their game. I would prefer something else entirely, but I haven't got what I want. Why should you or anybody else. Maybe we should get Fdev to make our own personal exploration mechanic for each person. Sorry but no. This is Fdevs game and they have removed the ADS I am assuming for a reason.

Ah, semantics... I'm sure you knew what I meant, but Ok, if by 'explored' you mean mapped, rather than scanned 'discovered', fine...

Nonetheless, the progression is that something is unknown until it is scanned after which it becomes known. How it is scanned is irrelevant,

Of course it's FD's game, and we're giving feedback on it, something they have continuously asked for. And other people shouldn't get something because you didn't? Hmmm... Ok, so FD didn't give you your ideal exploration system (whatever that is), so you are going to argue incessantly against other people providing feedback and asking for something that they want.

And to be clear, again... I'm fine with the FSS, I'm simply open to the idea that FD could add something to exploration by adding back an optional ADS rather than opposing something because it's not what I want.

 

[Hank]

The title of this thread makes this comment fit just fine imho. The right hand who did the discovery messages at center of screen while flying in SC did not realize or recall, when you start to charge the FSD, those discovered messages pop up in the middle of the screen where the next system info is displayed and has been for years (put there by the Left hand I suppose) ... even though, the same message is being displayed in the Info Panel (upper right).

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

This is their game and if they don't want the ADS in the game, them so be it. It's not about what you want or what I want, it's what Fdev want in their game. I would prefer something else entirely, but I haven't got what I want. Why should you or anybody else. Maybe we should get Fdev to make our own personal exploration mechanic for each person. Sorry but no. This is Fdevs game and they have removed the ADS I am assuming for a reason.

That creates the assumption that elite dangerous has no more relevance than a basement artists canvas for the development team. I don't even think frontier are that hardline to believe that because they don't work for free, and neither is elite to players.

If anything, the only practical message is we shouldn't care that much about elite so as when they make mistakes, it actually bothers us. Truly. Frontier are not in the businesses of community engagement and dialogue. Ed Lewis's brand was a complete misrepresentation, its very clear from the first time something like this effects you.

Some advice. Play hardcore, accept that perma death as part of survival on an alien world. Im actually playing it myself, the game does not stand up well to repeated play thrus but im going to play without using the cyclops this time. Dont cheat, dont look on the interent. If you approach the game this way i find it to be one of the best games ever made. I cant praise it highly enough. It might not look it but its actually a survival horror. Its truely beautiful aswell. (forgive it the flaws like the popup an occasional clipping bug) As for the forum folk, well i am enjoying watching this same argument go round and round still. I dont think anybody from fdev is looking or even cares but i wish all those asking for the mistake to be corrected good luck.

Yeah i know i've already started doing some research and all of it has come across as a spoiler. Its amazing to only be in the game for once. Not sure if i want to do multiple playthoughs as im about right to finally get around to w3 second play, but yeah it seems getting off the island too quickly and making it too easy can make lessen the experience. The graphics are amazing. The caustics and depth make it kinda like scuba diving and the environments are artistically perfect.

Well, getting out a bit more is always good. I was probably playing elite too much anyway. I know why too its because once you've found sandbox liner experiences get demoted into the same class as watching tv. You're just going through the motions.

 

[Burke]

Yeah i know i've already started doing some research and all of it has come across as a spoiler.

Yep everything you read. Ten minutes after my last post it killed me Lol ill put it down again now for a month but i expect ill go back. I got a bad feeling like below zero just isnt going to be as good.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Yep everything you read. Ten minutes after my last post it killed me Lol ill put it down again now for a month but i expect ill go back. I got a bad feeling like below zero just isnt going to be as good.

Well don't play hardcore Just like you can still play elite if you stay in the bubble.

That only goes so far though. I don't know if its part 2k hours or more that every time i see elites massive shortcomings now, faith in frontier used to hold this stuff up but now having to pretend my way around something stupid just isn't working anymore. Didn't know i was playing goodwill that much when i was playing elite, lol. I think im actually back to day 1... the cockpit only interface simply isn't good enough to support the completely bare sandbox experience that the rest of the game provides. Back in the day i always though "we're getting space legs someday okay", but now we're just nowhere.

 

[Burke]

Well don't play hardcore

No hardcore, no terror. Its well worth it.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Well don't play hardcore Just like you can still play elite if you stay in the bubble.

That only goes so far though. I don't know if its part 2k hours or more that every time i see elites massive shortcomings now, faith in frontier used to hold this stuff up but now having to pretend my way around something stupid just isn't working anymore. Didn't know i was playing goodwill that much when i was playing elite, lol. I think im actually back to day 1... the cockpit only interface simply isn't good enough to support the completely bare sandbox experience that the rest of the game provides. Back in the day i always though "we're getting space legs someday okay", but now we're just nowhere.

Back when I got hooked on ED (Horizons launch) there were all kinds of activities I enjoyed doing, and I forgave their barebones nature because I knew that FDev were focused on the game and that things that were clunky would get polished up, and that new things would come along too.

And there were mysteries! The Formidine Rift was still a thing, Unknown Artifacts were filled with puzzles, Jaques disappeared, local Galnet gave tips to follow.

But as time went by and the game developed, FDev's focus and vision moved away from this style and became all about giving players more control, about providing results instead of simply being a framework to us to immerse ourselves in.

Credits became meaningless, the mysteries fizzled out, and missions turned into tools for driving the BGS. And more and more medium ships.

So by 3.3 the ONLY part of the game that I was playing was exploration - because that was the only area that wasn't focused on the results, and I was able to immerse myself in the experience.

With 3.3 exploration got the 'results' treatment - the FSS and DSS are geared towards finding things and ticking boxes. The constant stop-start nature of the process and the 'everything on a plate' minigames destroyed things for me.

I just want to go back to flying my ship around, without all the screen-swapping and -twiddling.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Back when I got hooked on ED (Horizons launch) there were all kinds of activities I enjoyed doing, and I forgave their barebones nature because I knew that FDev were focused on the game and that things that were clunky would get polished up, and that new things would come along too.

We literally don't have this anymore. Elite has been put in: "forget about us for the next 1.5 years, and in the meantime don't expect much". The white knights will quote "community events" but no, unless frontier (not a white knight) speaks up, we've been shut down until next year.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

We literally don't have this anymore. Elite has been put in: "forget about us for the next 1.5 years, and in the meantime don't expect much". The white knights will quote "community events" but no, unless frontier (not a white knight) speaks up, we've been shut down until next year.

I wish they'd shut us down 12 months ago - I'd still be playing 25 hours a week.

 

[Stealthie]

Back when I got hooked on ED (Horizons launch) there were all kinds of activities I enjoyed doing, and I forgave their barebones nature because I knew that FDev were focused on the game and that things that were clunky would get polished up, and that new things would come along too.

And there were mysteries! The Formidine Rift was still a thing, Unknown Artifacts were filled with puzzles, Jaques disappeared, local Galnet gave tips to follow.

But as time went by and the game developed, FDev's focus and vision moved away from this style and became all about giving players more control, about providing results instead of simply being a framework to us to immerse ourselves in.

Credits became meaningless, the mysteries fizzled out, and missions turned into tools for driving the BGS. And more and more medium ships.

So by 3.3 the ONLY part of the game that I was playing was exploration - because that was the only area that wasn't focused on the results, and I was able to immerse myself in the experience.

With 3.3 exploration got the 'results' treatment - the FSS and DSS are geared towards finding things and ticking boxes. The constant stop-start nature of the process and the 'everything on a plate' minigames destroyed things for me.

I just want to go back to flying my ship around, without all the screen-swapping and ****-twiddling.

This.

Under differing management styles, ED has gone from wannabe space-opera to vindictive prank to interactive spreadsheet.

I preferred the original concept.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

This.

Under differing management styles, ED has gone from wannabe space-opera to vindictive prank to interactive spreadsheet.

I preferred the original concept.

I'm looking forward to the new era - free-to-play cellphone game, with microtransactions.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Under differing management styles, ED has gone from wannabe space-opera to vindictive prank to interactive spreadsheet.

Yeah i picked up the second option too from everything in the space loach era. That's what it honestly felt like.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I can't see Fdev being happy about putting in a mechanic that completely bypass' the work they have done.

Why not? They have done that before, for example, the material traders. They are also not too attached to previous work, for example, they dumped the old HUD for a new one and they removed the ADS.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

This is their game and if they don't want the ADS in the game, them so be it. It's not about what you want or what I want, it's what Fdev want in their game.

Well yes, I just haven't been able to find a proper argument the uncompatibility of the FSS and ADS and you are assuming they actually don't want it there instead of a technical or time issue (remember the delayed features?). FD can do what they want, but we are the ones who sustain this game, remember that.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Ah, semantics... I'm sure you knew what I meant, but Ok, if by 'explored' you mean mapped, rather than scanned 'discovered', fine...

Nonetheless, the progression is that something is unknown until it is scanned after which it becomes known. How it is scanned is irrelevant,

Of course it's FD's game, and we're giving feedback on it, something they have continuously asked for. And other people shouldn't get something because you didn't? Hmmm... Ok, so FD didn't give you your ideal exploration system (whatever that is), so you are going to argue incessantly against other people providing feedback and asking for something that they want.

And to be clear, again... I'm fine with the FSS, I'm simply open to the idea that FD could add something to exploration by adding back an optional ADS rather than opposing something because it's not what I want.

I don't even mean mapped either. Getting a tag is not exploring. Actually visiting the places and exploring what there is there is exploring in my view.

Feedback, you have given. Continuously spamming the feedback looks like moaning. Do your feedback then stop. FDev would have seen it so there is no need to continue spamming the same thing again and again.

As to the ADS, I have said I am also open to a mutually exclusive ADS or an ADS that can work with the FSS. Of course, with a bit more effort you could bypass the FSS entirely, but that may require travelling. Also there would be a cost to it, the better the FSS the bigger, heavier and power hungry it is. That would be my preferred option as that is how I think the BDS/IDS/ADS should have been like in the beginning.

I don't understand why some people that want the full ADS back are so against it being mutually exclusive.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

I don't understand why some people that want the full ADS back are so against it being mutually exclusive.

Only ever to appease the fss militants who keep tearing down suggestions for everyone to have nice things. Truly it’s only choice anyone had ever asked for. I’ve been following the feedback from the start and not one person has asked for the fss god mode in the ads.

 

[Darkfyre99]

This.

Under differing management styles, ED has gone from wannabe space-opera to vindictive prank to interactive spreadsheet.

I preferred the original concept.

There is much truth to this. I much preferred Elite under Michael Brooke’s as well, and was very happy when Sandro was finally moved on to other projects. But no matter what results-driven things Frontier adds, it’s on me as to whether I allow it to ruin my experience.

I stopped caring about credits when I got my Cobra III right before launch (ironically, I’d reset right before they announced that we would be keeping our progress at launch), so I fly for fun. It’s the same with BGS work: I don’t manipulate as a proxy for territorial conflict, but as an Imperial Agent who supports brave freedom fighters resisting the cruelty of the Evil Galactic Federation. There’s more efficient (aka grindy) ways to manipulate the BGS than how I do it, but it’s much more fun my way.

It’s the same with exploration. I don’t explore for the credits or “discovered by” tags, but for the experience of exploration, in particular that sense of discovery I feel when I discover something: that moment when you realize what it is you’re seeing. I never got that feeling from the ADS. It was a sterile experience that involved looking at a map something other than me created, and deciding if I wanted to grind for credits or “discovered by” tags.

I get that feeling with the FSS in spades, primarily because I’m in control of how much information I get while out exploring. If I want to explore a system completely via parallax, probing planets to reveal what’s on their surface, I can. If I want to use the FSS as a navigation aide in this process, I can do that too. Sometimes I even play the “minigame,” just in case I missed something not obvious. Mostly, though, I use the FSS the multi-role scanner it is, looking for signs of Interesting Things, resolving bodies only to confirm my hypothesis.

It’s not the fastest way to explore, but I’m having fun doing it. I may be lagging far behind on DW2 due to making the “mistake” of seeing what’s changed in Minecraft over the last four years, and my exploration style isn’t very fast, but I’m still “Little Billying,” And I’m still “suffering” from “One More System” syndrome. My only regret is that I can’t opt out of “spoilers”... but they do help travel speed a bit.

That being said, I still don’t care if Frontier adds an optional module that restores some of that ADS functionality. Using the FSS is faster than scouring the system map to “cherry pick” valuable planets as it is, and the FSS doesn’t work well for “rare unicorn” hunters.

The nice thing about optional modules is that I don’t have to install them on my ship. I don’t want a trace of that soul sucking abomination infecting my ship. It’s bad enough that a hint of its foul stench still lingers in the life-support systems, no matter how many times I asked my support staff to scrub it down.