PvP I've been corrupted *sigh*

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Phisto Sobanii

Phisto Sobanii
Riverside said:
Bit of a loaded question, you imply violence when it would be a waste. Malevolence can be enough ;)

Scale to your opponent. If they are not a threat they are a potential ally, if they are a threat they are a desirable potential ally.
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In this particular instance it was not a waste, yes?
 

Riverside

Riverside
Phisto Sobanii said:
In this particular instance it was not a waste, yes?
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Play how you like, the preachiness is a little irksome but I just use the vernacular. If you mean the OP's story it seems fair enough. I would expect no quarter to be given under the circumstances.

I have a trade cutter equipped with a B-rated KWS to collect bgs points from mission spawn baddies when doing hauling missions. I'd have started the conversation myself rather than waiting to be interdicted by another player if their body language raised the slightest concern ;)
 

Slange Lands

Slange Lands
Phisto Sobanii said:
Frankly, combat logging against BigMaec means under no circumstances would follow up happen. We don't want people like that.
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However, in the remote possibility that the Vulture Commander experiences Combat Logger's Remorse, shouldn't we give cloggers the chance to redeem themselves? People are not static entities and change on a dime. Ideally, I would hope that PvP would never be self-righteous or intolerant. I used to be vehemently anti-ganker and griefer... not anymore. Life is too complicated to sit on just one side of a fence.

I am sure of one thing though, and that is PvP combat in ED is absolutely glorious and challenging, and that all bars to entry, including entrenched traditional PvP viewpoints, need to be re-examined and perhaps obliterated.

o7
 

Phisto Sobanii

Phisto Sobanii
Slange Lands said:
However, in the remote possibility that the Vulture Commander experiences Combat Logger's Remorse, shouldn't we give cloggers the chance to redeem themselves? People are not static entities and change on a dime. Ideally, I would hope that PvP would never be self-righteous or intolerant. I used to be vehemently anti-ganker and griefer... not anymore. Life is too complicated to sit on just one side of a fence.

I am sure of one thing though, and that is PvP combat in ED is absolutely glorious and challenging, and that all bars to entry, including entrenched traditional PvP viewpoints, need to be re-examined and perhaps obliterated.

o7
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When it comes to clogging I'm absolutely cool with giving people a second chance. My earlier comment was based on the presumption we'd never run into him again and that he never approached BigMaec after the clog to apologize. If someone had a history of clogging and approached our group we'd take it on a case by case basis. I concluded long ago the hardcore shaming of cloggers (especially publicly) doesn't really work. Privately I'll be very firm with the Commander and will not be inclined to fly with them all things being equal, as is my right.

By the way, I'm really loving your dive into PvP. It's been a real joy to read about. If you're ever out in Colonia, I'd be happy to spar! ;)
 

jasonbarron

jasonbarron
Slange Lands said:
However, in the remote possibility that the Vulture Commander experiences Combat Logger's Remorse, shouldn't we give cloggers the chance to redeem themselves? People are not static entities and change on a dime. Ideally, I would hope that PvP would never be self-righteous or intolerant. I used to be vehemently anti-ganker and griefer... not anymore. Life is too complicated to sit on just one side of a fence.

I am sure of one thing though, and that is PvP combat in ED is absolutely glorious and challenging, and that all bars to entry, including entrenched traditional PvP viewpoints, need to be re-examined and perhaps obliterated.

o7
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I think by and large cloggers who've engaged in such behaviors very early on in their careers are given a chance to redeem themselves. It really depends on personal growth and genuine contrition. The PvP community is surprisingly lenient when it comes to that.
 

Phisto Sobanii

Phisto Sobanii
Riverside said:
How are we defining 'teeth' in this context? PvP is only a small subset of possible repercussions for not upholding an agreement, it's 'toothless' across modes.
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The threat of PvP can be very motivating for folks committed to playing in Open. Should be obvious. If they prefer PG and Solo then you've got to look for other ways (which should be done with the Open players too). Attacks via BGS, PP, and even forum PvP are acceptable.

If possible communicating that hostilities can indeed end is crucial. Even during the height of the Coma War we had friends in the Empire able to keep back channels open.

And after you get what you want? You hold fast to your agreements. Folks gotta know conflict can end otherwise what's the point in dealing with you?
 

mant3z

mant3z
How u kill cmdrs? They run away in escape pods. I even look on planets for those pods to get job fully finished. But ePods are without names so I crush them all :p
 
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Wargfoot

Wargfoot
jasonbarron said:
I think by and large cloggers who've engaged in such behaviors very early on in their careers are given a chance to redeem themselves. It really depends on personal growth and genuine contrition. The PvP community is surprisingly lenient when it comes to that.
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I'm a little concerned about accidental disconnects.
I was playing with a buddy last night and I got an instance server error and was booted.

I don't know if that is likely to happen in a dogfight or if you can tell the difference or not but I'd allow for the possibility as well.
Being gracious and giving second chances is always a safe bet.
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
Wargfoot said:
A KWS wouldn't be a threat to you unless you're already sketchy, correct?
YOU. PEOPLE. MAKE. ME. SICK(1)


NOTES
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1: Ya'll have driven off the PvE crowd. I thought I'd step in and help them out for a bit.
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You get sick from people playing the game as intended ("or hunting other commanders...")?
You'd better stay in your PG, then.
Phisto Sobanii said:
When it comes to clogging I'm absolutely cool with giving people a second chance. My earlier comment was based on the presumption we'd never run into him again and that he never approached BigMaec after the clog to apologize. If someone had a history of clogging and approached our group we'd take it on a case by case basis. I concluded long ago the hardcore shaming of cloggers (especially publicly) doesn't really work. Privately I'll be very firm with the Commander and will not be inclined to fly with them all things being equal, as is my right.

By the way, I'm really loving your dive into PvP. It's been a real joy to read about. If you're ever out in Colonia, I'd be happy to spar! ;)
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I've met him again at Jaqcues yesterday. No comment :LOL:
 

Marra Morgan

Marra Morgan
Wargfoot said:
I'm a little concerned about accidental disconnects.
I was playing with a buddy last night and I got an instance server error and was booted.

I don't know if that is likely to happen in a dogfight or if you can tell the difference or not but I'd allow for the possibility as well.
Being gracious and giving second chances is always a safe bet.
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If you're unfortunate enough to have a disconnect in the middle of a fight, use your History tab to send your opponent a FR and open a convo to explain what happened. Offer a rematch, or if it was clear you were going lose offer them a free kill on you with whatever was in your hold and/or Transactions tab.

If you know you have an unreliable connection, it would be best to reconsider playing in Open and think about Solo, or a PG with a friend who understands you might drop-off at any time.

In my 4 years of playing spaceships, I've never seen or read about a disconnect happen to someone who was winning a fight. Funny, that.
 

Wargfoot

Wargfoot
Kari Kerenski said:
If you're unfortunate enough to have a disconnect in the middle of a fight, use your History tab to send your opponent a FR and open a convo to explain what happened. Offer a rematch, or if it was clear you were going lose offer them a free kill on you with whatever was in your hold and/or Transactions tab.

If you know you have an unreliable connection, it would be best to reconsider playing in Open and think about Solo, or a PG with a friend who understands you might drop-off at any time.

In my 4 years of playing spaceships, I've never seen or read about a disconnect happen to someone who was winning a fight. Funny, that.
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I think that is very reasonable.
I've had two disconnects - usually upon entering the instance - in probably 100 hrs. of play.

I was just seconding the idea of giving people a chance instead of letting one instance define their reputation for the duration of their time in ED.
I was also asking if there was any way to tell the difference as I figured that might be important.
 

jasonbarron

jasonbarron
As Kari said, there's a lot of ways to handle it.

We've all suffered kicks and disconnects, but communication is absolutely key here. Also, with genuine cloggers, there's usually a pattern of behavior that begins to emerge as various PvPers begin comparing notes. Despite Fdevs reluctance to address the issue in any meaningful way (or even un- meaningfully for that matter) it's not really that hard to tell who the cheaters are.
 
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