PvP I've been corrupted *sigh*

[Phisto Sobanii]

I suspect that Siobhan has never seen a clog which is why I chuckled. Why would she have? One of the biggest giveaways when someone clogs is that they remain in place unmoving, not taking damage for quite a while. The player who logs out still takes damage for the duration of the timer.

What Jason said. Go full murderhobo and you'll find out really quick what's a menu log and what's a straight clog.

Agree with a lot of what is said here too. Disconnects happen. From what I hear and experience they are most common when dropping in and out of instance with other people. That's why one person serving has an anchor is so important in competitive PvP, for instance. Elite's great but network issues gonna network issue.

Anyway, Wargfoot, I'm glad folks like you hang around here. We were all new once and we all should be trying to get better at the Elite we play - whether that's PvE, PvP, BGS, or whatever wild mixture we come up with.

 

[Wargfoot]

Thanks Phisto, the advice and instruction you guys give is really appreciated.

I just didn't realize it was going to take this long to learn how to be a decent pilot or I would have avoided PvP discussions.
In most game you can become competitive rather quickly, whereas, with ED I can see spending all summer learning how to fly.

 

[jasonbarron]

What Jason said. Go full murderhobo and you'll find out really quick what's a menu log and what's a straight clog.

Agree with a lot of what is said here too. Disconnects happen. From what I hear and experience they are most common when dropping in and out of instance with other people. That's why one person serving has an anchor is so important in competitive PvP, for instance. Elite's great but network issues gonna network issue.

Anyway, Wargfoot, I'm glad folks like you hang around here. We were all new once and we all should be trying to get better at the Elite we play - whether that's PvE, PvP, BGS, or whatever wild mixture we come up with.

Great post. I agree about Wargfoot; he (or she) has helped keep this sub fresh and lively.

 

[Krash]

Sounds unlikely to me, Krash. Fake news. I fly with some real scumbags and no one that I know would rather that you cheat.

They sure get a lot of mileage out of it when someone "cheats", so it looks different in practice.

 

[Riverside]

They sure get a lot of mileage out of it when someone "cheats", so it looks different in practice.

It can be easy to fall into the trap of assuming players you have never met, or strangers you meet for the first time will behave in a certain way. I've never had anyone CLog on me (that I noticed).

I've had a lot to say about CLogging so I'd just like to clarify that imo using the 15 sec timer is still CLogging (the player is using an out-of-game mechanism to avoid the consequences of in-game choices), but it is specifically allowed by the game & is therefore not cheating. Hi waking is escaping and as with using a maximum alpha strike on everything with no moderation or submarine warfare with modes & block list filters, it's within the rules of the game. Cynically instance flipping at Dav's Hope would be cheating, just as board flipping was. Play your own way, but playing means working within the game rules.

 

[Krash]

It can be easy to fall into the trap of assuming players you have never met, or strangers you meet for the first time will behave in a certain way. I've never had anyone CLog on me (that I noticed).

I've had a lot to say about CLogging so I'd just like to clarify that imo using the 15 sec timer is still CLogging (the player is using an out-of-game mechanism to avoid the consequences of in-game choices), but it is specifically allowed by the game & is therefore not cheating. Hi waking is escaping and as with using a maximum alpha strike on everything with no moderation or submarine warfare with modes & block list filters, it's within the rules of the game. Cynically instance flipping at Dav's Hope would be cheating, just as board flipping was. Play your own way, but playing means working within the game rules.

I've had players clog on me and it just shows their ineptitude. They are telling me I'm so powerful that high/low waking is not an option. Maybe i'm projecting that feeling unto the gankers, oh well, its my roleplay to enjoy

 

[Screemonster]

I think my favourite clog video was one of rinzler's where a guy in a 'vette was trying to sealclub outside a station, only for rinzler to show up in a vulture and spank him without pants, leading to the guy screaming "CHEATERS" in all-caps and clogging.

edit: the one that someone took of a guy on his own stream getting interdicted and instantly logging out before the attacker could deploy hardpoints was pretty funny too.

 

[Riverside]

I think my favourite clog video was one of rinzler's where a guy in a 'vette was trying to sealclub outside a station, only for rinzler to show up in a vulture and spank him without pants, leading to the guy screaming "CHEATERS" in all-caps and clogging.

edit: the one that someone took of a guy on his own stream getting interdicted and instantly logging out before the attacker could deploy hardpoints was pretty funny too.

Stream sniping is cheating, no different to an ungraceful exit (and also both are difficult to prove), but two wrongs don't make a right.

ETA to clarify: I'm not saying the attacker was a stream sniper, I'm implying the streamer thought they were being stream sniped.

I think cheaters do tend to assume other cheat too yes. I'm generalising here of course to avoid naming & shaming. I think trying to kill a stranger before they combat log is silly but simply trying to kill an opponent as quickly as possible is obviously within the rules, but I think scaling to an opponent (ie holding back or using sub-optimal equipment) is an excellent way to get more entertainment out of a game that has become easy with practice.

 

[Wargfoot]

Stream sniping is cheating, no different to an ungraceful exit (and also both are difficult to prove), but two wrongs don't make a right.

I'd like to respectfully disagree.
If you're streaming your game that is on you.

Using a stream to find an opponent and wreck him while he's broadcasting isn't cheating, it's good time management.

 

[Wargfoot]

They sure get a lot of mileage out of it when someone "cheats", so it looks different in practice.

Same with the whole 'river of tears' trope.
I hardly see anything approaching a tear, much less a river anywhere on this forum.

I do want to get out into PvP because when I die you can bet I'll show these guys the true meaning of tears.

 

[jasonbarron]

I'd like to respectfully disagree.
If you're streaming your game that is on you.

Using a stream to find an opponent and wreck him while he's broadcasting isn't cheating, it's good time management.

Not to mention hella funny, too.

 

[Riverside]

I'd like to respectfully disagree.
If you're streaming your game that is on you.

Using a stream to find an opponent and wreck him while he's broadcasting isn't cheating, it's good time management.

I agree that it is to be expected (ie if I were to livestream in Open I should be aware I am publishing my location), the question 'are you playing in Open?' is a common one to see in a feed. I value my privacy & am not looking for an audience, I don't livestream.

But just as with CLogging it is using an out of game mechanism to gain an advantage. It may be that the streamer is okay with this, just as it may be that the player left behind may consider a CLogged opponent as a win.

To distinguish between the two is hypocritical imo, but neither seem to attract much punishment so maybe people accept it as the norm (as was the case with the 5-for-1 exploit for example).

 

[Wargfoot]

I agree that it is to be expected (ie if I were to livestream in Open I should be aware I am publishing my location), the question 'are you playing in Open?' is a common one to see in a feed. I value my privacy & am not looking for an audience, I don't livestream.

But just as with CLogging it is using an out of game mechanism to gain an advantage. It may be that the streamer is okay with this, just as it may be that the player left behind may consider a CLogged opponent as a win.

To distinguish between the two is hypocritical imo, but neither seem to attract much punishment so maybe people accept it as the norm (as was the case with the 5-for-1 exploit for example).

I should think if you're playing in open and live streaming that you're asking for interaction so that your channel can be interesting.

That aside, for the sake of the discussion I'm going to object to your post yet again.
I'm kicking the idea around so don't take the objection personal.

I think there is a pretty big difference between yanking the ethernet cable out of the wall to break the connection and using out of game knowledge about somebody's location in order to murder them, spit roast (1) their tender vittles, and hungrily devour them, only taking a break to wash down the tasty bits with a cold brew... but I digress. The point is that to say using out of game knowledge is somehow cheating would be like accusing Distant Ganks of cheating because Distant World's published their intended destination on the forums (out of game).

I'd agree that using a third party radar would be cheating (common in FPS games, it allows you to know the location of enemies all over the map).
If someone is publishing her location on a channel, well golly, that seems to be fair game -- having nothing to do with cheating in any regard.
It's okay if you disagree with that.





NOTES
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1: That one is for you, Jason.

 

[Riverside]

I should think if you're playing in open and live streaming that you're asking for interaction so that your channel can be interesting.

That aside, for the sake of the discussion I'm going to object to your post yet again.
I'm kicking the idea around so don't take the objection personal.

I think there is a pretty big difference between yanking the ethernet cable out of the wall to break the connection and using out of game knowledge about somebody's location in order to murder them, spit roast (1) their tender vittles, and hungrily devour them, only taking a break to wash down the tasty bits with a cold brew... but I digress. The point is that to say using out of game knowledge is somehow cheating would be like accusing Distant Ganks of cheating because Distant World's published their intended destination on the forums (out of game).

I'd agree that using a third party radar would be cheating (common in FPS games, it allows you to know the location of enemies all over the map).
If someone is publishing her location on a channel, well golly, that seems to be fair game -- having nothing to do with cheating in any regard.
It's okay if you disagree with that.





NOTES
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1: That one is for you, Jason.

Pretty sure I covered your questions already in the post you quoted Wargfoot. It's okay to disagree with what I consider cheating. I can't be bothered to check the EULA but it would be a good place to start if you want to find out what FDev could punish, if they chose to.

 

[jasonbarron]

Noted and appreciated, Wargfoot. At ease, CMDR.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I just get killed by NPC's.

 

[Wargfoot]

I just get killed by NPC's.

Yesterday I thought I'd drift on over to [Hazardous].

I attacked a large ship that already had 3 or 4 other ships attacking it.
It immediately targeted me, the first shot knocking down half my shields.
In my panic I collided with an asteroid, so there goes the rest of the shields.
The next shot teleported me to Cleve Hub.

It isn't easy being a scrub.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

It isn't easy being a scrub.

When Wargfoot was in Egypt land let my Wargfoot goooooooooo.

 

[Bigmaec]

Yesterday I thought I'd drift on over to [Hazardous].

I attacked a large ship that already had 3 or 4 other ships attacking it.
It immediately targeted me, the first shot knocking down half my shields.
In my panic I collided with an asteroid, so there goes the rest of the shields.
The next shot teleported me to Cleve Hub.

It isn't easy being a scrub.

I spent A LOT of time in High and later Haz Res.
So if you like (and am not afraid of my l33t ganking skillz ) we can do some Haz Res together, perhaps I can give you some tips, and
it's always helpful having a wingmate in a Haz Res with a healing beam or five...

 

[Wargfoot]

I spent A LOT of time in High and later Haz Res.
So if you like (and am not afraid of my l33t ganking skillz ) we can do some Haz Res together, perhaps I can give you some tips, and
it's always helpful having a wingmate in a Haz Res with a healing beam or five...

I'm hesitant to add anyone here to my group because I'm really a bad pilot right now.
I'd die of shame if any of you actually saw me fly.
I just got rudders - so I actually flail when I fly.

I'm not even ready for tips at this point - I'm just trying to paint pirate ships with a beam while spinning out of control towards an asteroid in the hope that the Feds will polish the guy off. My friend and I brag to each other about escaping Sidewinders - seriously, it is pathetic.

As for murdering me - let me turn in my bounty vouchers first and then you can murder me.
The ship is cheap to replace but those bounty vouchers are a total freakin' shame to lose.