An auction house is something I wanted to propose myself, I thought you are talking about direct player trading since the topic is about p2p.Eh? This isn't open space trading (I can't think of anything more stupid? lol), this is auctoin house style. Please, I know it's a big one, but read the thread I linked. You never know you might even like some of it!!
Can't have player to player commodity trade, how about p2p material trade?
- Thread starter Chaparral
- Start date
Sorry for the misunderstanding, I realize I didn't make it clear on this topic.
Well just last weekend I was in a low res extraction site and got loads of mats dropped for every wanted ship I killed. Yes, I know davs hope and combat mats aren't G5, but engineering isn't all about G5 either. However, I wouldn't be opposed to trading mats between players if it was restricted to mats only i.e. no credits involved.Apologies for being pedantic, cos I agree with the gist of your post, but there's no combat aftermath mats any more and Davs doesn't have any G5s at all.
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I think we're talking about different things. Mats drop from combat, sure, it's absolutely THE worst method of obtaining g5 mats, but yeh, it can be done.
'Combat Aftermath' is a type of USS in the game, which prior to 3.3 had random collections of G4 and G3 manufactured mats (essentially the same things you can find at Dav's Hope). This is no longer the case though. Since 3.3 they are some weird and pointless scenario and contain no mats. It's a major blow to casual engineers, as it was one of the best ways to get copious amounts of G4 mats, they were even system state dependent. Sigh...memories of better days...
'Combat Aftermath' is a type of USS in the game, which prior to 3.3 had random collections of G4 and G3 manufactured mats (essentially the same things you can find at Dav's Hope). This is no longer the case though. Since 3.3 they are some weird and pointless scenario and contain no mats. It's a major blow to casual engineers, as it was one of the best ways to get copious amounts of G4 mats, they were even system state dependent. Sigh...memories of better days...
Thats what people always say about every game when discussions like this and they are wrong 100% of the time.
You would be surprised what people would pay real money for.
Get rid of Engineers, get rid of materials, but keep the modules. The toothpaste is out of the tube with the power creep aspect but that doesn't mean we need to forever have such a convoluted and frankly obnoxious system for acquiring all this OP equipment.
OP equipment in video games SHOULD be hard to get.
Now you ARE being pedantic ashenfox
... only kidding.Yes, I do know the difference between combat drops and the broken combat aftermath uss ... bad use of words by me.
I was editing my post whilst you must have been replying, I don't think we disagree on the main concept of mat-for-mat trading between players, I don't see what harm that could do providing credits aren't involved as both players will have collected the mats anyway, so the grind boss has already been paid!
On the one hand, allowing trading between players (for credits, mats, cargo, whatever) would certainly open up more kinds of gameplay.
On the other hand, it also opens massive cans of worms - gold sellers for one thing, sure, but there are also things like economic balance (currently it doesn't affect me at all if the next player really does grind Void Opals all day, if players can trade things it will, and then I might have to do that as well, and then since everyone is insanely rich the prices for everything even sold by NPCs have to be increased to make money meaningful, and frankly there's a reason that EvE has an economist on staff to sort this stuff out...).
So that's a judgement call that's ultimately up to FD to make. A player marketplace would be great if done well, an utter disaster if done badly, and not having one at all sidesteps the problem completely. I respect FD's right to do that.
On the other hand, it also opens massive cans of worms - gold sellers for one thing, sure, but there are also things like economic balance (currently it doesn't affect me at all if the next player really does grind Void Opals all day, if players can trade things it will, and then I might have to do that as well, and then since everyone is insanely rich the prices for everything even sold by NPCs have to be increased to make money meaningful, and frankly there's a reason that EvE has an economist on staff to sort this stuff out...).
So that's a judgement call that's ultimately up to FD to make. A player marketplace would be great if done well, an utter disaster if done badly, and not having one at all sidesteps the problem completely. I respect FD's right to do that.
Trouble with either P2P trading or a "private" auction is that I could, for example, offer to trade 100 PI's for 10 sulphur in-game as long as you also send $20 to my paypal addy as well.
Same problem applies to "public" auctions as well, unfortunately.
I could offer 100 PIs for auction and somebody could bid Cr1bn for them but instead I'd accept an offer of 10 sulphur because the bidder had also sent the $20 to my paypal.
I suppose this could be mitigated by hiding the identities of bidders and hiding information about when bids are placed but it'd have to be very well designed to overcome the potential problem.
I've always kind of liked the idea of having some kind of "auction" system in ED because it created the opportunity for people to make a "career" out of doing stuff they enjoy and then trading for the stuff they don't enjoy but I'm not sure there's actually enough desirable stuff in ED to make it worthwhile doing and I'm not sure it'd be possible to prevent it getting used for dodgy things.
Same problem applies to "public" auctions as well, unfortunately.
I could offer 100 PIs for auction and somebody could bid Cr1bn for them but instead I'd accept an offer of 10 sulphur because the bidder had also sent the $20 to my paypal.
I suppose this could be mitigated by hiding the identities of bidders and hiding information about when bids are placed but it'd have to be very well designed to overcome the potential problem.
I've always kind of liked the idea of having some kind of "auction" system in ED because it created the opportunity for people to make a "career" out of doing stuff they enjoy and then trading for the stuff they don't enjoy but I'm not sure there's actually enough desirable stuff in ED to make it worthwhile doing and I'm not sure it'd be possible to prevent it getting used for dodgy things.
Sorry, what?
Unless I misunderstand, you seem to be suggesting that all the people who currently have heavily-modded weapons and modules should be able to keep them but the means for other people to create similar modules should be removed.
If that IS what you mean, that's about the most bonkers thing I've ever heard.
No sorry if that was misleading. I meant keep modules of equivalent power in the game but get rid of the convoluted system for acquiring them. The most straightforward thing would be just adding that stuff into outfitting and letting you buy all of it with credits, but I'm not necessarily arguing for any one particular implementation.
You should really read the whole thread.
All of your problems are addressed in my big post on the subject linked in the third post on the second page of this thread. Particularly the part about not allowing obviously one side trades (by not allowing any trade cheaper or more expensive than the mins and maxes the current npc trader allows),and also simply keeping the npc trader mitigates this somewhat (why would I do an insane player trade if I can get a still outrageous, however much less so trade from the npc?). Please check out the thread of you haven't, it's quite well trained I believe, and if it's not, I'd like to hear what problems you have with it.
Honestly, the main concern I have with any kind of trading or auction is simply that I'm not sure it'd ever be worth doing.
In the case of mat's, in particular, if you're considering trading mat's it's probably because you want them NOW, which'd mean direct trades rather than auctions, in which case issues involving "gold selling" would be inevitable.
Conversely, if you attempted to mitigate this via some kind of auction system, it might avoid the problems with "gold selling" but if it takes several days to complete the auction, you could probably have gathered/trades the required mat's anyway.
You could also implement an auction house that allows you to buy mats directly (but anonymously). IIRC Ashenfox' idea is that you can't even buy them but trade 1 to 1 similar to the material brokers in game. As I said earlier, at some point it might be easier to simply tweak the already existing traders...
Yeh, as babel mentions, in space trading would be crazy (but I don't see how it empowers gold sellers at all).
Here is the usefulness case...
I get a lot of Cdcs from my gathering cos let's face it, there are now only those and protos available in usses. I very infrequently go to empire space. Rather than trade my 150 Cdcs for 25 imperial shielding at the trader AND then have to go out and farm more Cdcs so I have 'some', I go to a station, I submit my trade, I say I have 100 (so I keep 50) available at 1 imperial shielding each. Imperial player comes along and looks at the available trades, he's looking for Cdcs and has a hold full of imperial shielding. He thinks... Hm, I'll take 40 of those, nice trade. 60 now remain for someone else to take. The trade offer expires after a week if unfulfilled, and the mats are removed from your inventory at creation of the trade, and held in escrow until the trade expires, is canceled by the player or completely fulfilled, at which point, the player may return to any material auction house to pick up his traded mats and leftovers.
That doesn't sound viable and unexploitable to you? If so, please explain!
Just paypal me $10 and I'll put 100 Imp Shielding on the trader for you, price is 1 iron <nudge nudge> loverly jubberly, job's a gud un
Oh looks like you've been unlucky, someone else bought the mats before you. Thanks for the money thoughJust paypal me $10 and I'll put 100 Imp Shielding on the trader for you, price is 1 iron <nudge nudge> loverly jubberly, job's a gud un
Already a rule stipulated that would prevent that, but also how do you ensure that the intended player takes the trade? If I saw that trade, I'd take it, and I didn't paypal you a bean!Just paypal me $10 and I'll put 100 Imp Shielding on the trader for you, price is 1 iron <nudge nudge> loverly jubberly, job's a gud un
There's a reason why this is not how wow's gold trade is conducted despite allowing player trade (for credits even!) of just about any resource in the game