I don't get the hate for bots, what's really wrong with that?

[Floaty Wombat]

I seriously don't understand the hate for bots. Why not hate on FDev to implement a broken system (e.g. powerplay) that encourages botting, and then leave it unfixed?

And what is wrong with e.g. afk turret ships? Isn't this "blaze your own trail" anymore, because someone decides to engineer the out of a cutter and leave it stationary to farm the stupid ai, while watching Netflix? Isn't that exactly the purpose of the game and engineering, to max out your ship and use that to more effectively grind for money and rep and whatnot?

And we're all already stacking missions to get more reward at once. Like massacre missions, and then just turtle around with our engineered, pretty much unkillable ship in a high res site and wait for the ai to spawn in and suicide on us. How is that not "gaming the system" ?

Furthermore we are all using external tools already to maximise our rewards (e.g. the road to riches tool, or eddb to find stuff). So botting is only the logical next step in ED, where we are encouraged to use every tool available to game the system and get more rewards faster.


I seriously find this whole "bots are bad" discussion really hypocritical.

 

[Red Anders]

It's pretty much universally frowned on in online gaming. There's a world of difference between arming yourself with information to maximise your effectiveness and automating the process of playing the game.

 

[Wizz15]

I would say that the existence of other exploits does not mean that we should not complain about bots which are also an exploit.
Besides that, human players can never compete with bots who don't need sleep, food or have to answer the door or deal with other RL interruptions.

I would flip it around and ask: what benefit is there to having bots in the game?

 

[Ralph Vargr]

We could go back to play by mail...

 

[AlaricVonDrago]

I come from MUDs, where botting was encouraged if not included in some fashion. The only problem people had with botting there was AFK botting. IE: going to bed and leaving your character online leveling up for you. That's not okay.

But sitting at the computer watching an "afk" ship farm in haz res is not botting at all, so long as the player is present. Nor is a script you write to do your trade loop for you while you kick your feet up and watch netflix while it's doing its thing. Being present while your software is running isn't botting IMO, even if you are just watching a program do all the work for you. Alas, I'm a software engineer/programmer, so I might be slightly biased in this regard.

I said in another thread and I'll just repeat it here: games that are grindy and turn human beings into mindless bots themselves deserve to be botted and SHOULD be. The backlash keeps the devs honest about poor game design and forces them to re-think or improve their game systems to be engaging and require human interaction.

Though to be honest, human interaction is going to the wayside for most types of input, so like it or not, botting is only going to get more sophisticated and is here to stay... Best thing to do is design a fun game people want to play, and not invent time sinks from 1980s game design.

 

[Lightspeed]

I seriously don't understand the hate for bots. Why not hate on FDev to implement a broken system (e.g. powerplay) that encourages botting, and then leave it unfixed?

And what is wrong with e.g. afk turret ships? Isn't this "blaze your own trail" anymore, because someone decides to engineer the poopoo out of a cutter and leave it stationary to farm the stupid ai, while watching Netflix? Isn't that exactly the purpose of the game and engineering, to max out your ship and use that to more effectively grind for money and rep and whatnot?

And we're all already stacking missions to get more reward at once. Like massacre missions, and then just turtle around with our engineered, pretty much unkillable ship in a high res site and wait for the ai to spawn in and suicide on us. How is that not "gaming the system" ?

Furthermore we are all using external tools already to maximise our rewards (e.g. the road to riches tool, or eddb to find stuff). So botting is only the logical next step in ED, where we are encouraged to use every tool available to game the system and get more rewards faster.


I seriously find this whole "bots are bad" discussion really hypocritical.

A bit extreme !
No, it isn't.
No, it is not .... it's an extreme result of automation, where you "play the game" your way automatically and the consequences ruin it for everyone else.

 

[Old Duck]

The only problem people had with botting there was AFK botting. IE: going to bed and leaving your character online leveling up for you. That's not okay.

I don't need a bot for that, I just need a rubber band. Not that I would leave a character at a Dark Anchor swinging her swords mindlessly all day long waiting for Daedra to spawn..

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Old Cold Warrior. Lots of other PBM's back then.

Powerplay is just a badly implemented boardgame.

 

[AlaricVonDrago]

I don't need a bot for that, I just need a rubber band. Not that I would leave a character at a Dark Anchor swinging her swords mindlessly all day long waiting for Daedra to spawn..

True enough. I once ran a clicker program that just clicked my mouse while grinding WoW battlegrounds. So I could sit there and watch tv and not get logged for inactivity. But the BGs were boring. I had to do like 5 thousand of them or something to get my rank. I dont even know, it was inane.

Time is just a poor excuse for merit. Players will always do what it takes to accomplish the goal they want out of their purchased game. Better to not be a lazy dev and resort to forcing people to spend hours and hours of their precious life for a reward... and just give them a fun avenue to it, instead.

 

[Ambroza]

No. Not going to argue with you. It's simply not true.

Can you provide some examples of multiplayer games where botting is accepted?

 

[Stigbob]

Botting is cheating.

 

[AlaricVonDrago]

A bit extreme !
No, it isn't.
No, it is not .... it's an extreme result of automation, where you "play the game" your way automatically and the consequences ruin it for everyone else.

Botting is just more humane. People used to account share, what's the difference to you, if someone is manning the activity 24/7/365 because they have friends or co-workers helping them with it. Or literally harming themselves physically because devs made the game so retardedly obtuse, only people who resort to such tactics can ever win at it.

If a developer is being out smarted by kids writing scripts, then that's just... fair game. Design your game better.

 

[ebbrell]

omg, its a game to play, why would you want bots. madness, if you cannot play it without then don't in my opinion

 

[Old Duck]

Botting is cheating.

Says the Russian Bot

 

[Stigbob]

Says the Russian Bot

I have superior programming.

 

[xzanfr]

Old diplomat are you?

I'd actually do a PbM. Hell yeah.

Great memories of sitting round a school dining table, reading from a dot matrix printout and arguing about what moves to make (and who's going to pay for the stamp).

 

[AlaricVonDrago]

omg, its a game to play, why would you want bots. madness, if you cannot play it without then don't in my opinion

You have to understand the mind of programmers. It is their game to write bots, scripts, etc. That's the fun they get out of it. To make a program that can play the game. AI is a big field. Some do it for the online fame, glory, or just as a personal challenge. Or just to troll people like you who find it so revolting. Life is strange =)

I've written bots, but not for games. For work and other tasks. It's a fun field, very interesting. Personally, I want to play my games and that's how I spend my time, to be a better player. But some people like the thrill of beating devs at their own game, or winning at any cost. Hacker culture a bit, otherwise, just nerds. Just competitive people.

And for others, it's a legit business as one other poster was saying.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

You just spawned a brain worm. I wonder if there are groups still out there?

USENET probably has a few.

 

[Floaty Wombat]

No, it is not .... it's an extreme result of automation, where you "play the game" your way automatically and the consequences ruin it for everyone else.

And how exactly do they ruin the game for everyone else? All they do is get rewards more efficiently, and maybe gain their powerplay faction some artificial influence that isn't changing your gameplay in any way.
Just because some faction is slightly more powerful in the statistics isn't suddenly stopping you from doing anything in the game, at all.

Besides, you can always play solo if you feel other players are ruining your experience.

 

[Morbad]

Bots are bad because they allow one to influence the game world, and reap in-game rewards for one's characters, without having a player actually participate in gameplay.

It means that legitimate players once again get to play by an inferior set of rules, where they have to more work to achieve the same ends, as those engaging in forbidden or abusive forms of play (or in this case, having their robots do it).

They harm my game because I want to be able to play on equal footing, and have equal opportunity for my characters to influence the game's setting, without having to resort to 3rd party tools, or breaking the rules.