Supercruise Assist, Netflix & Chill

[Madrax573]

Ummm, submission to interdiction gives you a regular cool down. I think what you want is for AP to ignore the interdiction, lose, and then your target gets a long FSD cool down by default.

I'm more worried about NPC interdictions, which happen with surprising frequency, than I am player interdictions. On the other hand, one can argue that every convenience should come with a cost.

Yeah the current mechanism works for rewarding activity by reducing your cool down for FSD. I'm wanting the supercruise control to submit but INCREASE your cool down. Like you say it's the trade of the convenience of having the computer do it for you.

Less dangerous? Now commanders will point at Hutton and be like "Well, I'm going to get a beer and make a pizza" and then return with their cold beer and hot pizza to the re-buy screen.

Less dangerous because people are handing over they flight to the computer and automating more about the game. How long before the forum crybabies start shouting about getting the computer to automatically evade interdictions? Every little thing that adds more automation in a game like ED that is built around the premise of actually flying your ship makes it less dangerous. And lets face it, it's not exactly very dangerous in it's current state is it?...

 

[Old Duck]

Less dangerous because people are handing over they flight to the computer and automating more about the game. How long before the forum crybabies start shouting about getting the computer to automatically evade interdictions? Every little thing that adds more automation in a game like ED that is built around the premise of actually flying your ship makes it less dangerous. And lets face it, it's not exactly very dangerous in it's current state is it?...

Why do you care so much about how other CMDRs play the game?

 

[Schmack]

I'm waiting for them to update the waiting time for module and ship transfer. If you think SC is fun, just you wait till we get an automatic clock watcher module that drops us right into the shipyard as soon as the ship arrives, or into the stored modules in outfitting when that module arrives.

Those who first ranked up to Elite, are truly Elite.

They did it before most of the updates made things much easier for today's players. Those who did, had to put up with ganking, no C&P, no engineering, many, many bugs, exploits in the game, disconnects from servers and many other problems with game play which have now been fixed.

After the update to come, being Elite will have lost much of it's meaning.

And they walked to school, no stinking school buses back then. They were barefoot, and it was uphill both ways, in deep snow.

 

[Schmack]

Yeah the current mechanism works for rewarding activity by reducing your cool down for FSD. I'm wanting the supercruise control to submit but INCREASE your cool down. Like you say it's the trade of the convenience of having the computer do it for you.



Less dangerous because people are handing over they flight to the computer and automating more about the game. How long before the forum crybabies start shouting about getting the computer to automatically evade interdictions? Every little thing that adds more automation in a game like ED that is built around the premise of actually flying your ship makes it less dangerous. And lets face it, it's not exactly very dangerous in it's current state is it?...

A lot of these people only face NPCs who have everything automated.

 

[babelfisch]

Those who first ranked up to Elite, are truly Elite.

They did it before most of the updates made things much easier for today's players. Those who did, had to put up with ganking, no C&P, no engineering, many, many bugs, exploits in the game, disconnects from servers and many other problems with game play which have now been fixed.

After the update to come, being Elite will have lost much of it's meaning.

Only CMDR onepercent is truly Elite.

 

[Madrax573]

Why do you care so much about how other CMDRs play the game?

Simply because said people who find it too hard, too dangerous, too whatever come crying to FDev who then puts mechanics in place to make it easier and in turn dumbs the game down to kindergarten level. You may say it's just a little thing.... maybe this time but next it will be full autopilot etc....

Ultimately I'm fine with people playing however they want after all it a big galaxy out there and I don't often run into many people despite being open 99% of the time but I've been around games long enough to see trends when these kind of changes start to get implemented and it very very rarely is a good thing... I hope I'm wrong.

A lot of these people only face NPCs who have everything automated.

So lets dumb it down enough that you are basically watching a simulated game played for you by your npc against the rest of the npc's??

 

[Guest193293]

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[Old Duck]

Only CMDR onepercent is truly Elite.

I'm an Elite explorer, of this I have no doubt, but I'll never be an Elite combat pilot, I don't care what Pilot's Federation says.

On the other hand, I am a clever combat pilot. Too bad I can't have that as my designator!

 

[simonlange]

I have a feeling the Supercruise Assist is just the first step in a long journey towards space legs. That way you can leave the pilot chair and go about other tasks on your ship and know that your ship isn't going impact a moon at the speed of light.


Or at least that's what I am hoping.

However, there should be some hard to miss alarm (sirene and optical) when the ship is under attack. supercruise assist sounds like a fest to pirates.

 

[Schmack]

Simply because said people who find it too hard, too dangerous, too whatever come crying to FDev who then puts mechanics in place to make it easier and in turn dumbs the game down to kindergarten level. You may say it's just a little thing.... maybe this time but next it will be full autopilot etc....

Ultimately I'm fine with people playing however they want after all it a big galaxy out there and I don't often run into many people despite being open 99% of the time but I've been around games long enough to see trends when these kind of changes start to get implemented and it very very rarely is a good thing... I hope I'm wrong.



So lets dumb it down enough that you are basically watching a simulated game played for you by your npc against the rest of the npc's??

As long as you don't do it why do you care? You're not going to be in my ship anyhow. You can fly your ship however you see fit... Blaze your own trail so they say.

 

[Nyres]

It does. What it won't do is perform the initial align to a target. Think of it as a course hold function.

Give it time, I'm sure people will complain that it doesn't do that starting on the 23rd and demand that it also point you at your target.

 

[Madrax573]

As long as you don't do it why do you care? You're not going to be in my ship anyhow. You can fly your ship however you see fit... Blaze your own trail so they say.

This is nothing about blazing your own trail. That is not a logical argument about reducing the active activity in the game. It's got nothing to do with what people actually do with the new tools. It is about dumbing down the game so you spend more time watching it than actually playing... SC itself is park of the activity in game, you have to take into account gravity wells, interdictions and yes sometimes you have long distances to travel, space is big I guess...

Give it time, I'm sure people will complain that it doesn't do that starting on the 23rd and demand that it also point you at your target.

Those kind of things have been asked for ages. This is the first 'baby step' so once everyone is comfortable with that the next 'logical' step is the inclusion of auto-alignment. Then heck we may as well just have auto pilot.....

Very worrying IMO.

 

[Schmack]

This is nothing about blazing your own trail. That is not a logical argument about reducing the active activity in the game. It's got nothing to do with what people actually do with the new tools. It is about dumbing down the game so you spend more time watching it than actually playing... SC itself is park of the activity in game, you have to take into account gravity wells, interdictions and yes sometimes you have long distances to travel, space is big I guess...

I mean let's be honest, how much content is the cruise from the Star to the station for someone who's making hundreds of trips? In reality a ship would be able to autopilot itself while the captain goes through the checklist and other things the captain needs to do prior to porting. Sure you can say that's one of the skill based activities in the game but it's really not. Entering the station and docking is probably a hundred times more skill-based than super cruising and dropping out at the station. Also consider the main point is that you personally don't have to use it. I don't know how someone else using it will affect your game in any shape form or fashion. Maybe just knowing about it bothers you?

Those kind of things have been asked for ages. This is the first 'baby step' so once everyone is comfortable with that the next 'logical' step is the inclusion of auto-alignment. Then heck we may as well just have auto pilot.....

Very worrying IMO.

Well I mean we have ship transfers, does that mean the very next step is to have Commander transfers? There's no logical reason to infer a slippery slope. Of course power creep happens and of course things in the game that aren't fun are going to be eventually changed and the game will evolve into spending more time doing more things you like to do instead of the tedious boring things that hardcore gamers find interesting but recreational gamers do not.

Eventually it comes down to being able to fund this game. That means finding a balance between grindy, long repetitive tasks with not much reward and automated functions to salve the concerns of probably a large group of people who would otherwise not play the game.

You always have the choice to not play the game.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

This is nothing about blazing your own trail. That is not a logical argument about reducing the active activity in the game. It's got nothing to do with what people actually do with the new tools. It is about dumbing down the game so you spend more time watching it than actually playing... SC itself is park of the activity in game, you have to take into account gravity wells, interdictions and yes sometimes you have long distances to travel, space is big I guess...



Those kind of things have been asked for ages. This is the first 'baby step' so once everyone is comfortable with that the next 'logical' step is the inclusion of auto-alignment. Then heck we may as well just have auto pilot.....

Very worrying IMO.

While I think that deciding to use assist modules or not still counts as choosing the way you play, i.e. blazing your own trail, I think the more important issue here is that something with such a low level of interaction, that being the current supercruise mechanic, is causing concern with regards to its partial automation via an optional module.

What I'd like to know is, what actual adverse effects do people think this is going to have on the game, and what examples can be provided to demonstrate that?

Personally, I don't see an issue, because you barely do anything in supercruise as it is, unless you get interdicted, which the assist module is not going to help you with anyway.

Rather than be concerned about automation of a low interaction mechanic, I'd be more vocal about asking the developers to provide more engaging modes of travel, either through improvement of the current modes, or via additional modes.

 

[Firebeard]

Having had a response from Paige I think the SC module sounds pretty good now - if interdicted it disengages immediately.

 

[Madrax573]

I mean let's be honest, how much content is the cruise from the Star to the station for someone who's making hundreds of trips? In reality a ship would be able to autopilot itself while the captain goes through the checklist and other things the captain needs to do prior to porting. Sure you can say that's one of the skill based activities in the game but it's really not. Entering the station and docking is probably a hundred times more skill-based than super cruising and dropping out at the station. Also consider the main point is that you personally don't have to use it. I don't know how someone else using it will affect your game in any shape form or fashion. Maybe just knowing about it bothers you?

I won't be using it. That or the advanced docking computer either. But again it's not about personal preferences for actually flying my ship.

Well I mean we have ship transfers, does that mean the very next step is to have Commander transfers? There's no logical reason to infer a slippery slope. Of course power creep happens and of course things in the game that aren't fun are going to be eventually changed and the game will evolve into spending more time doing more things you like to do instead of the tedious boring things that hardcore gamers find interesting but recreational gamers do not.

Eventually it comes down to being able to fund this game. That means finding a balance between grindy, long repetitive tasks with not much reward and automated functions to salve the concerns of probably a large group of people who would otherwise not play the game.

You always have the choice to not play the game.

You talk almost in jest but CMDR transfers have long been discussed in game since the ship transfers came in and before even that. Given that ED was always about being active 'at the stick' so to speak now that we have said ship transfers, and now automated SC control it's only logical to assume that it will continue to built upon as the platform has already been introduced.
Especially when you liken this to the ability to fund the game. Given that the most vocal often get what they want regardless of the effect it may have on the game itself indicates that it will come in at some point. However that point doesn't stand up to the funding of the game argument as ED is funded upon game purchase and cosmetics. How does having people 'play' by not playing get people to buy expansions and cosmetics? Less will likely be sold.

 

[Madrax573]

While I think that deciding to use assist modules or not still counts as choosing the way you play, i.e. blazing your own trail, I think the more important issue here is that something with such a low level of interaction, that being the current supercruise mechanic, is causing concern with regards to its partial automation via an optional module.

What I'd like to know is, what actual adverse effects do people think this is going to have on the game, and what examples can be provided to demonstrate that?

Personally, I don't see an issue, because you barely do anything in supercruise as it is, unless you get interdicted, which the assist module is not going to help you with anyway.

Rather than be concerned about automation of a low interaction mechanic, I'd be more vocal about asking the developers to provide more engaging modes of travel, either through improvement of the current modes, or via additional modes.

I guess I must be playing a different game as when in a decent SC I'm very rarely doing nothing... Squadron management, map route investigation, dodging pirates or cops (depending on my recent activity), codex/incident read ups etc etc.

Point being as I utilise SC as a point of doing other stuff that I would otherwise be docked up to do. Yet I'm not docked, I'm out flying my spaceship (IMO the essence of ED ) but most importantly I'm at the controls ready to react to something IN GAME, not off watching Netflix and trying to get the missus to 'chill' with me. As if that was the case I'd just switch off the computer and go do something way more fun instead.

All games have downtime in them. How you utilise it is the key.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

I guess I must be playing a different game as when in a decent SC I'm very rarely doing nothing... Squadron management, map route investigation, dodging pirates or cops (depending on my recent activity), codex/incident read ups etc etc.

Point being as I utilise SC as a point of doing other stuff that I would otherwise be docked up to do. Yet I'm not docked, I'm out flying my spaceship (IMO the essence of ED ) but most importantly I'm at the controls ready to react to something IN GAME, not off watching Netflix and trying to get the missus to 'chill' with me. As if that was the case I'd just switch off the computer and go do something way more fun instead.

All games have downtime in them. How you utilise it is the key.

I'm not in a squadron let alone a manager of one, plotting takes less than a minute in most cases, I've gone through everything in the codex, and the latest news doesn't take long to consume. That just leaves interdictions, which the assist module does nothing to help with, and which quickly become repetitive gameplay with no variation. When I think about the "flying my spaceship" aspect of ED, it becomes difficult to include "pointing at a target and watching your screen for anywhere from a couple of minutes to an hour and half" as a worthwhile and engaging part of that. Hence my continued advocation for improvements in space travel mechanics in the game.

But again, aside from your personal preference not to use any assistant modules, what do you foresee as being damaging to the game or its success due to the existence of such modules? Is the problem with the automation, or with the design of the travel mechanics in ED that make so many people wish for automation?

 

[Madrax573]

I'm not in a squadron let alone a manager of one, plotting takes less than a minute in most cases, I've gone through everything in the codex, and the latest news doesn't take long to consume. That just leaves interdictions, which the assist module does nothing to help with, and which quickly become repetitive gameplay with no variation. When I think about the "flying my spaceship" aspect of ED, it becomes difficult to include "pointing at a target and watching your screen for anywhere from a couple of minutes to an hour and half" as a worthwhile and engaging part of that. Hence my continued advocation for improvements in space travel mechanics in the game.

But again, aside from your personal preference not to use any assistant modules, what do you foresee as being damaging to the game or its success due to the existence of such modules? Is the problem with the automation, or with the design of the travel mechanics in ED that make so many people wish for automation?

Fair enough if you aren't using the time...

As for automation damaging games.....well I've been around for too many decades playing online games. And not one of them has gotten better or grown past a certain point of automation. All lose players and often the game ends up closing or just becoming an alt bot fest.

Heck even WoW and EQ (The grandfathers of mmo's) are releasing 'classic' and 'hardcore' servers as the players are often fed up with all the 'bells and whistles' that were added over the years.

All I'm cautioning against is that is the first step in the automation process and the slippery slope is starting to grease itself up ready for the fall.... This implementation in my mind not needed. You have a long SC, set yourself up and go afk. Work out how long you need to be away and come back simple. To have the system automatically slow you down and drop out is in my mind a total waste of dev time and panders to the automation crowd that wants to play a game by leaving it running while they do something else.

Once this comes in the next thing will be 'just make it point at my destination' 'why not it's no big deal' then it changes to 'well these are already here, why not just have autopilot?'
This is how it happens and the seeds are being sown already yet to do a big change and add such a thing would disrupt a lot of people so FDev add a 'little' thing first.... I hope I'm wrong but if it goes down that route of more and more automation.....

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

Fair enough if you aren't using the time...

As for automation damaging games.....well I've been around for too many decades playing online games. And not one of them has gotten better or grown past a certain point of automation. All lose players and often the game ends up closing or just becoming an alt bot fest.

Heck even WoW and EQ (The grandfathers of mmo's) are releasing 'classic' and 'hardcore' servers as the players are often fed up with all the 'bells and whistles' that were added over the years.

All I'm cautioning against is that is the first step in the automation process and the slippery slope is starting to grease itself up ready for the fall.... This implementation in my mind not needed. You have a long SC, set yourself up and go afk. Work out how long you need to be away and come back simple. To have the system automatically slow you down and drop out is in my mind a total waste of dev time and panders to the automation crowd that wants to play a game by leaving it running while they do something else.

Once this comes in the next thing will be 'just make it point at my destination' 'why not it's no big deal' then it changes to 'well these are already here, why not just have autopilot?'
This is how it happens and the seeds are being sown already yet to do a big change and add such a thing would disrupt a lot of people so FDev add a 'little' thing first.... I hope I'm wrong but if it goes down that route of more and more automation.....

If they created a variety of meaningful on board activities to occupy players on longer trips, then there wouldn’t be so many complaints about the lack of interactivity during supercruise, so the time spent travelling would no longer be an issue. Moreover, it would also reduce uneasiness about this type of automation, because it would be needed in order to free you up for other important activities on your ship.

Many of us are hoping that 2020 brings EVA (aka Space Legs), because then on board activities other than piloting could make a lot more sense. But in any case, the game should provide the activities, rather than the game designers expecting or leaving players to find a third party diversion to occupy themselves during the longer runs.

The other alternative, as mentioned, would be to make travel more involved and more engaging. I personally wouldn’t mind if both on board activities with EVA and alternate engaging travel modes were developed.

But for all that, I still don’t understand what it is specifically about this type of optional automation that some players find to be detrimental to the game. You’ve cited the decline of other games due to automation, but it’s still unclear as to why automation would cause players to leave and create this decline. I accept what you say about the dangers of botting, though in the case of ED we already have bots that do supercruise and docking, so the new modules won’t be introducing that problem, and arguably wouldn’t even really exacerbate it.

But consider if I asked you the question “What do people hate about being in prison?”, you might answer “The loss of freedom, and the potential harm and danger posed by other inmates”. So what then do players dislike about the optional automation coming in the next update, to the degree that continued development in this vain on an optional basis would cause them to stop playing? What are players losing from this, and how does it harm their gameplay?

Just trying to see things from your perspective.