Does anyone actually enjoy engineering?

[Old Duck]

I recently discovered an unpopulated system with an endless supply of HGEs, and of course I thought this very cool. I also enjoy "salvaging" as gameplay. But then it dawned on me that the reward is strictly for Engineering, and I really don't have much Engineering left to do. I already have too many "engineered for a specific scenario" modules pilling up like a horder's garage (gotta sell some of these).

Unfortunately most of these specific types of salvaging materials are useless for any synthesis I might be interested in. I have to shoot a bunch of rare rocks and pray to RNG to get the metals I need for high-quality munitions, for example. I really wish there was more overlap, allowing me to find Polonium or even iron (go figure) in space wreckage rather than being forced to drive around in my SRV shootng rocks for three eternities, because I really do enjoy salvaging...

 

[starman]

Does anyone actually enjoy engineering?

How much enjoyment can be derived from making Tea and toast. Yet essential activities for the advancement of mankind.

 

[Interstellar Overdrive]

Serious question. I don't mean 'do you enjoy having an engineered ship' or 'do you enjoy trying out different engineering modifications', I mean do you actually enjoy the process, the things that you do to get to that engineered module?

Acquiring vast amounts of materials, trading them when (inevitably) you don't have the one you want, at a massive loss, getting a series of lousy rolls that eat all your mats before you complete the mod you're aiming for?

I read posters on here stating that they've engineered whole fleets of ships in next to no time. I believe them- why wouldn't they tell the truth?- but I'm not enjoying anything like the same rate of progress. I decided to fully engineer my mission runner, an 'A' rated Python, back in November. I'd been tinkering with it for a while, I had what I thought was a huge amount of materials stockpiled and I'd unlocked a few engineers. I gave up half way through December and, in spite of having a whole week off at the end of the month, I didn't even flash Elite up. I just couldn't face it any more.

For most of the last four years I've put in a couple of hours a night, two or three times a week. Not exactly a power player, but not 'casual' either. Now I'm watching ED videos instead of playing- what kind of saddo does that? It's over a fortnight since I last played and I don't have any particular urge to change that.

Each completed mod has been a revelation. The Python is transformed. I really can't express how much of a difference the engineering makes- it's vastly more than finally installing 'A' class modules when I started the game.

But that's just hacking me off. It's painfully obvious just how pants stock ships are compared to engineered ones. I've got a whole fleet of vanilla ships that are a real struggle to just survive in. I don't mind running away every now and then, but the AI is balanced against much tougher kit than I'm flying. I can see where the 'git gud' crowd are coming from- my partly engineered Python is just melting AI opponents! But I'm about as 'gud' as I'm going to 'git', my fleet needs a ton of work and yeGodsinHeaven I'm burned out just getting one of them up to scratch!

I'd love to try out some of the newer ships, but I know that stock, even 'A' rated, they'll be easy pickings for dumb as a brick AI with ridiculously strong weapons and shields. It's not about skill, or lack thereof, the game's set-up is suffering from power creep. I wouldn't object to that, if engineering to the new standard wasn't such a massive pain in the posterior for me.

Am I looking at this all wrong? Is engineering actually a fun activity that I'm just not 'getting'? [uhh]

I suppose there is a certain joy after completing the circle thingy. Always makes me feel happy
Then there is the sound effect when an experimental effect is applied, like icing on a cake. Pure bliss.

 

[Jaggid Edje]

I've been playing about 6 weeks and actually uninstalled the game completely saying "I quit" at about the 3 week mark when I started working on the engineering grind.

Then I woke up the next day and really had the itch to work on it again....so I reinstalled.

For me, it's a love-hate thing for this whole engineering process. When I feel like working on it, I actually have come to enjoy the process of hunting down the materials I need and I have had a lot of fun working on unlocking the engineers and advancing them. When I just want to get a ship "complete" however, it's a daunting barrier. I am choosing to focus more on making it a 'process' rather than a 'goal to finish quickly' and that's helped with the whole thing.

I have only 9 ships so far, and have each of them partially engineered, 2 of them fully engineered apart from a few modules that I can't quite take to G5 without unlocking a couple more engineers that I haven't gotten unlocked yet.

I'm now working on gathering materials for what I still need to enginneer across those 9 ships, mixed in in with working towards unlocking those last engineers and also just doing other things to break up the grind...so far it's worked for me; I haven't gotten frustrated and wanted to uninstall again taking this more measured approach and mindset and I have been having fun playing every day.

 

[Cmdr Nemo]

Maybe it's just me, but, it seems like NPC engineered ships match to some degree, any engineering I do.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Does anyone actually enjoy engineering?

How much enjoyment can be derived from making Tea and toast. Yet essential activities for the advancement of mankind.

Tea and toast preparation is fun. And they can tasty yummy. Engineers does neither. All you get from engineers is a bad aftertaste in your mouth.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Maybe it's just me, but, it seems like NPC engineered ships match to some degree, any engineering I do.

Nah, they outtank and outgun you totally when you fly vanilla.

 

[B1rdy]

I'd enjoy Engineering more if:-
1) It was less dramatic in overpowering/unbalancing combat performance. It should be a more subtle upgrade.
2) There weren't magic spell side effects to weapons. Just creates needless paper-scissor-stone gameplay.
3) Most importantly, you could engineer with any unlocked engineer say in any hitech station. So it was a far more casual and organic affair. ie: Not pinned blueprint nonsense.

4) There were either more interesting/ engaging or more diverse ways to get certain materials. (Especially HGEs are rather unfun and uneventful aka boring)
5) Mission reward were more balanced in this regard.

The general idea of Engineers is fine, but the process and the outcome still leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[TrailBlazer 143]

Serious question. I don't mean 'do you enjoy having an engineered ship' or 'do you enjoy trying out different engineering modifications', I mean do you actually enjoy the process, the things that you do to get to that engineered module?

Acquiring vast amounts of materials, trading them when (inevitably) you don't have the one you want, at a massive loss, getting a series of lousy rolls that eat all your mats before you complete the mod you're aiming for?

I read posters on here stating that they've engineered whole fleets of ships in next to no time. I believe them- why wouldn't they tell the truth?- but I'm not enjoying anything like the same rate of progress. I decided to fully engineer my mission runner, an 'A' rated Python, back in November. I'd been tinkering with it for a while, I had what I thought was a huge amount of materials stockpiled and I'd unlocked a few engineers. I gave up half way through December and, in spite of having a whole week off at the end of the month, I didn't even flash Elite up. I just couldn't face it any more.

For most of the last four years I've put in a couple of hours a night, two or three times a week. Not exactly a power player, but not 'casual' either. Now I'm watching ED videos instead of playing- what kind of saddo does that? It's over a fortnight since I last played and I don't have any particular urge to change that.

Each completed mod has been a revelation. The Python is transformed. I really can't express how much of a difference the engineering makes- it's vastly more than finally installing 'A' class modules when I started the game.

But that's just hacking me off. It's painfully obvious just how pants stock ships are compared to engineered ones. I've got a whole fleet of vanilla ships that are a real struggle to just survive in. I don't mind running away every now and then, but the AI is balanced against much tougher kit than I'm flying. I can see where the 'git gud' crowd are coming from- my partly engineered Python is just melting AI opponents! But I'm about as 'gud' as I'm going to 'git', my fleet needs a ton of work and yeGodsinHeaven I'm burned out just getting one of them up to scratch!

I'd love to try out some of the newer ships, but I know that stock, even 'A' rated, they'll be easy pickings for dumb as a brick AI with ridiculously strong weapons and shields. It's not about skill, or lack thereof, the game's set-up is suffering from power creep. I wouldn't object to that, if engineering to the new standard wasn't such a massive pain in the posterior for me.

Am I looking at this all wrong? Is engineering actually a fun activity that I'm just not 'getting'? [uhh]

No, it sucks. If the process was for fun, I wouldn't think to touch it. It would end up like Arena or Multicrew.

 

[bradLP560]

It's awful. I played since beta and loved the game, managed to ignore Engineers at first but the game has become a drag without them, all the fun is now behind an Engineering wall. I did it for a few hours and was bored rigid. I haven't played for a few months now and don't see me going back to it. I've always played just a few hours here and there as I have a busy life and the thought of facing months of grind is just too daunting. As has been constantly repeated, it's supposed to be fun.

While I think Engineering has been a blessing for those of a certain mindset for many others it's killed the game completely. I think FDev dropped the ball here, they could have introduced more enjoyable elements to the game and kept the drop off of players down to normal wastage, I feel the Engineers has pushed many more people away who would otherwise have stayed.

Again, it's awful and a game killer for many of us who have waited decades for Elite's return.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I grab g1 and experimentals, pin them and the just play. I rarely appreciate 'long-term goal oriented behavior' in games as it always result in short-term frustration in exchange for some possible future fun.

I want fun now, so do what is fun. And almost everything in this game gets you something, so you'll inevitably end with g5 ships.

 

[BlackSpaceCowboy]

It's awful. I played since beta and loved the game, managed to ignore Engineers at first but the game has become a drag without them, all the fun is now behind an Engineering wall. I did it for a few hours and was bored rigid. I haven't played for a few months now and don't see me going back to it. I've always played just a few hours here and there as I have a busy life and the thought of facing months of grind is just too daunting. As has been constantly repeated, it's supposed to be fun.

While I think Engineering has been a blessing for those of a certain mindset for many others it's killed the game completely. I think FDev dropped the ball here, they could have introduced more enjoyable elements to the game and kept the drop off of players down to normal wastage, I feel the Engineers has pushed many more people away who would otherwise have stayed.

Again, it's awful and a game killer for many of us who have waited decades for Elite's return.

This.

My biggest issues are:

1. You can't get materials like Arsenic as mission rewards. You're forced into activities you're not interested in. That's if you can even figure out where to get what you need.

2. It's too damn complicated. You have a whole list of different materials for different upgrades then you have brokers who trade materials at various rates. It gets worse, there are different traders for different types of materials. This is crazy. I've never seen a game do something this convoluted.

 

[Bomber]

The idea of building improving your space ships is good, my issue is with gathering of the materials.
I agree the process of collecting the materials especially the raw gets mind numbing after the first few go's. The 'options' to log on/log off though well intended, are a cheat and I dont feel the best way to address these issues. More ways to collect raw materials from missions or combat debris would help.
Other ways would be to drop a remote SRV to mine raw with AI or hired crew?
Ways of buying/building some mining facility on a planet? etc. etc.

The good news ED have the time to address some of these issues hopefully with new expansions?
...and dont get me started on those traders exchange rates ED should look to introduce ways elite/senior players can earn better rates?
If I ever run into a material trader in my corvette... I'll give him 6 to 1 he wont forget

 

[Muetdhiver]

I like the engineering planning more than the engineering process itself.

The main gripe I have about it is that by the third or fourth ships going to all the required engineers starts to feel
rather bland. Pins are a godsend in that regard.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

So nothing was done about it. Well, every explanation I can give to current situation would involve "brain cancer" diagnosis.

They are grandfathered until you re-apply the engineering. You are likely to get a higher grade of engineering with your module/weapon/whatever by re-engineering if you take it to the top of Level 5 (I think it starts at Level 4 if you were at Level 5 before, so you take a small hit at first which is quickly recovered) unless you had gained the absolute top notch in engineering and special effect. The highest level of engineering you get now might even be slightly better than previously, but I can't give an authoritative answer. At least there is more certainty to the special effect that can be applied. You choose it and do it once.

The issue with grandfathering is not exactly "god rolls". It is random additional effects old modules could have.
In short, every long range/focused weapon is straight up worse than grandfathered one. In "new" system, all you get is plain range while you could have something like 7% damage/cap reduction on them. Sure, you can have damage... if you handicap yourself even more by not taking classical experimentals. Or 30% heat reduction, which were compensated for railguns only.
Sensors/life support could have powergrid reductions. Skill cell banks could have double cell clip size, so you could double bank on a single module.

And past tense is not appropriate here. As those things are still avaliable for every player which reached/were reaching "endgame" prior to rebalancing. While newer players were simply boned. "New" is put in quotes cause this exists for 2 years already.



Well, back to eve then.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

It's awful. I played since beta and loved the game, managed to ignore Engineers at first but the game has become a drag without them, all the fun is now behind an Engineering wall. I did it for a few hours and was bored rigid. I haven't played for a few months now and don't see me going back to it. I've always played just a few hours here and there as I have a busy life and the thought of facing months of grind is just too daunting. As has been constantly repeated, it's supposed to be fun.

While I think Engineering has been a blessing for those of a certain mindset for many others it's killed the game completely. I think FDev dropped the ball here, they could have introduced more enjoyable elements to the game and kept the drop off of players down to normal wastage, I feel the Engineers has pushed many more people away who would otherwise have stayed.

Again, it's awful and a game killer for many of us who have waited decades for Elite's return.

i wonder if engineering falls under "new player experience" i mean if they cant dock what hope have they understanding where to get pharmaceutical isolators?

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

So nothing was done about it. Well, every explanation I can give to current situation would involve "brain cancer" diagnosis.



The issue with grandfathering is not exactly "god rolls". It is random additional effects old modules could have.
In short, every long range/focused weapon is straight up worse than grandfathered one. In "new" system, all you get is plain range while you could have something like 7% damage/cap reduction on them. Sure, you can have damage... if you handicap yourself even more by not taking classical experimentals. Or 30% heat reduction, which were compensated for railguns only.
Sensors/life support could have powergrid reductions. Skill cell banks could have double cell clip size, so you could double bank on a single module.

And past tense is not appropriate here. As those things are still avaliable for every player which reached/were reaching "endgame" prior to rebalancing. While newer players were simply boned. "New" is put in quotes cause this ** exists for 2 years already.



Well, back to eve then.

Grandfathered is such a fringe case - the overall power creep is the real problem. Power creep and devaluing vanilla gameplay. The classic viscious circle of "iwin" powerups introduced later into games.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Maybe at one time I did.

But after a few years? Absolutely not.

9/10 times I’ll strip a ship of modules before hunting for materials and engineering new parts.

I will say that material trading and remote workshops have made things easier, and I’m very fond of those features.

 

[Floaty Wombat]

Grandfathered is such a fringe case - the overall power creep is the real problem. Power creep and devaluing vanilla gameplay. The classic viscious circle of "iwin" powerups introduced later into games.

Oh yes, I find it really ridiculous how powerful ships can become with engineering. You are basically invulnerable to everyone except those with an equally engineered ship.

I already regret buying Horizons, simply because in Vanilla there was at least a slight risk while flying ... now with engineering, there is no challenge left anymore at all.

 

[The Replicated Man]

I really don't mind it. When done in moderation.

I am always switching up ships and builds chasing that new build I want to try, so I am forced to engineer stuff quite often