Credits now meaningless? Might as well remove? Discuss

I know this is going to be controvertial, but i just don't see the point of credits any more. Players can go from sidewinder to anaconda in a week. Money is so easy to make, rebuys are a joke.

Do you agree? Do you think FD might as well just remove credits, or just award everyone a bazillion credits as soon as they start a new CMDR?

Is this good for the game or bad for it?

If ED was a game where there was something to spend these massive amounts of credits, for example, like X's empire building, then there might be a use for them all. If it was a single player game, well, i still think it would be far too easy to make credits, but hey single player.

Personally though, i'm not aware of any MMO which has "gold" raining from the sky like ED has with credits. I think in most MMOs it would be considered very bad for the game.

OP your whole argument is based solely on your experience.

I personally have billions and billions in assets and void opal mine when I need to top up however I have a friend who's been in a Cobra for 6 months and doesn't feel the need to progress at a stupid rate. I see loads of commanders in ASPs and Type 6s near my home. Credits are not pointless they are just easy to obtain if you want.
 
As a noob, I'll add my tuppence to this billion credit enigma. It's not going to be welcomed, but it is my viewpoint and I suspect as a noob I'm a voice in the wilderness and its turned out to be an unexpectedly lengthy post so I apologise for that too.

I don't have a problem with the way rewards are issued. It may be too easy and now pointless for players that already have the time, experience, warehouse full of ships etc already invested to multiply their accounts quickly, but for a noob who can only play a few hours per week it is difficult enough and I feel the rewards ( for my lifestyle) are not as excessive as I'm being led to believe.
...
.

As a noob i was focused on making credits.
But what He said above is also valid

The "credits are way too easy" crowd should also take into consideration that this is the normal progression for a game that is more than 4 years old.
You cant really expect a newcomer to be forced to grind 2 years for a big ship. They have to be able to catch up faster, at least in terms of cash - flying skills/experience is another topic.
 
OP your whole argument is based solely on your experience.

Umm.... yes? Although i don't think i was making any argument per se. I was stating some points and asking for opinions. It was also meant to be a bit tongue in cheek, and i expected the thread to be dead in a few days. And yet, here we are!

I personally have billions and billions in assets and void opal mine when I need to top up however I have a friend who's been in a Cobra for 6 months and doesn't feel the need to progress at a stupid rate. I see loads of commanders in ASPs and Type 6s near my home. Credits are not pointless they are just easy to obtain if you want.

Personally i don't have billions in assets because i don't feel the need to grind. I recently went back to flying Cobras for a few months, even for combat zones. Was good fun. Changed my fleet twice since then though.... i think i have fleetrefititsis or something.
 
The "credits are way too easy" crowd should also take into consideration that this is the normal progression for a game that is more than 4 years old.

Is it?

I'll try and remember that next time i load up GTA.... i think they are still selling those Shark Cards for those who can't stand the grind.
 
"I think for new player credits are still meaningful. I mean, if we would start over, we could get billionaires in a matter of days. But for someone who doesn't know anything about the game it's still a journey from his Sidewinder to a larger ship, and who'll be excited about his first million."

Unfortunately this this is not really the case.

I installed the game for the first time ever this weekend. In just a couple of hours I'd learned to travel to a system with a High RES, (honking each system as I travelled). Once at the RES I just shot each wanted ship before the Feds killed it and got full bounty. In the space of an hour I got 100k for the exploration data and 1M for the bounties.

I've also done a couple of courier missions taking three units of medicines to the adjacent system, which earns enough to upgrade 4 ship modules in one go.

My first million meant nothing at all and if credits are this easy to come by I'm left wondering what the point is.

The world building is also terrible. All the kill missions have one of the two exact same descriptions "Assassinate so and so" or "Take down so and so". In FFE the missions had interesting descriptions like "Admirers of Senator Mike McKinley would like to arrange for his early retirement in the Arcturus system" or "Removal needed. Jones needs removing from the Wolf 359 system".

I don't understand how the writers have managed to get away with being so lazy and unimaginative when all they had to do was learn from the example of the original games created decades ago.

Lol. The name D*** is censored! what is this forum?
 
“How can you have money,” demanded Ford, “if none of you actually produces anything? It doesn't grow on trees you know.”
“If you would allow me to continue.. .”
Ford nodded dejectedly.
“Thank you. Since we decided a few weeks ago to adopt the leaf as legal tender, we have, of course, all become immensely rich.”
 
Obvious and simple quick fix that DOES NOT require space legs (although that would be nirvana):

1. Follow the sandbox mode of success that SC, Space Engineers, The Sims, Minecraft, TES, Fallout & New Vegas have allowed players to do: make their mark on the game world through customization of their gamespace.

Basically craft mats from stuff you already collect around the galaxy. Then use your billion cr balance to buy real estate (ranging from a small orbital/planetary plot of land to an entire planet) from the 3 main faction station authorities. Restrict this purchase to homeworld/HQ systems only i.e. Earth in Sol for the Feds, Alioth for the Independents etc. So if you want to build anywhere in Fed space you need to first visit Earth/Sol etc. There are more than enough landable procedural generated planets inside the bubble, let alone the ones between the bubble and Colonia, or DW2 and beyond. Of couse you can run the risk of squatting and illegally occupying land/orbit without a deed. But such trespassing would result in stiff $$$ fines to KOS (if you're already wanted in that system). Next,

2. Give players the ability to buy blue prints for existing star ports or generic planetary settlement. Commission the existing engineers to draw up the plans once you've collected & mined the necessary mats. Then finally,

3. Do a X4 meets the Sims/Space Engineers and allow the player to build whatever the hell they want. Want a personal large ship landing pad for your Conda/Cutter inside your own customized Coriolis space station? A small/med landing pad on planet side of a remote ice planet near Colonia for your Asp X? Buy the blueprints from the respective Engineers, collect & craft the necessary mats and build it.

The space/planet settlements would double as player home base, so players could access the hangar feature upon docking. And so be able to safely log out/in without concern of their ship being deconstructed by over zealot PvPers incapable of controling their pew pew urges whenever they chance upon another Cmder's ship.


my only issue with this comes down to how is it balanced? should all players be forced to do void opal mining or any of the other totally imbalanced money printing presses to be able to access this expensive stuff, or should it be achievable by people playing the game wihtout using the handful of metas?

if yes, then i fear the sink will not be deep enough for the megabillionaires... however make it deep enough to make even them wince, and then your average player will be for ever out of reach.
these issues needed to be stamped on right from the off... IF some stuff was then with hindsite too expensive to reach - lets for arguments sake say the top armour for an anaconda and a size 7 A rated fuel scoop.................... then have periodic sales on where they are reduced in price but without effecting anything else.

now that horse has bolted i dunno what the answer is. i would accept a complete asset and credit wipe for the whole game i really would. (and after 1700 hrs in game even with all my rules and what not, it is still a sizeable sum over all - but i do not think others would like this at all.

this is why i have come around to the idea of an Elite Dangerous 2 - even tho David Braben insisted this was not going to happen. This would allow lessons learned from the 1st game to be implemented along with possible new technology which may be harder to put into an old game
So long as the life time pass for ED carried over to the new game, as well as ship skins etc i think that could fly. (and because it is a new game, everyone could be offered the cobra IV ;)
 
I installed the game for the first time ever this weekend. In just a couple of hours I'd learned to travel to a system with a High RES, (honking each system as I travelled). Once at the RES I just shot each wanted ship before the Feds killed it and got full bounty. In the space of an hour I got 100k for the exploration data and 1M for the bounties.

I've also done a couple of courier missions taking three units of medicines to the adjacent system, which earns enough to upgrade 4 ship modules in one go.

My first million meant nothing at all and if credits are this easy to come by I'm left wondering what the point is.
I honestly would not swap my 1st 6 months in the game for anything i wish that game still existed. and you are right.... my 1st million took (total guess) maybe > 50hrs to get to, this was a time where it was scary installing an advanced discovery scanner because even if you could afford it on your ship, it added significantly to any possible insurance claim.
 
"I think for new player credits are still meaningful. I mean, if we would start over, we could get billionaires in a matter of days. But for someone who doesn't know anything about the game it's still a journey from his Sidewinder to a larger ship, and who'll be excited about his first million."

Unfortunately this this is not really the case.

I installed the game for the first time ever this weekend. In just a couple of hours I'd learned to travel to a system with a High RES, (honking each system as I travelled). Once at the RES I just shot each wanted ship before the Feds killed it and got full bounty. In the space of an hour I got 100k for the exploration data and 1M for the bounties.

I've also done a couple of courier missions taking three units of medicines to the adjacent system, which earns enough to upgrade 4 ship modules in one go.

My first million meant nothing at all and if credits are this easy to come by I'm left wondering what the point is.

The world building is also terrible. All the kill missions have one of the two exact same descriptions "Assassinate so and so" or "Take down so and so". In FFE the missions had interesting descriptions like "Admirers of Senator Mike McKinley would like to arrange for his early retirement in the Arcturus system" or "Removal needed. **** Jones needs removing from the Wolf 359 system".

I don't understand how the writers have managed to get away with being so lazy and unimaginative when all they had to do was learn from the example of the original games created decades ago.

Lol. The name D*** is censored! what is this forum?

Ship prices explode exponentially. Imho, one of the worst design decisions in the game.

Missions etc pay the same, no matter whether you're in a Sidewinder or Anaconda. With the current ship price curve you either completely bypass all the progression through small-mid ships or you'll have to play for years to be able to afford one of the big three.

I'm happy I got to experience some ship progression. I still remember how happy I was when I finally could afford a Type-6 to start earning the big bucks. :D
 
Ship prices explode exponentially. Imho, one of the worst design decisions in the game.

Missions etc pay the same, no matter whether you're in a Sidewinder or Anaconda. With the current ship price curve you either completely bypass all the progression through small-mid ships or you'll have to play for years to be able to afford one of the big three.

I'm happy I got to experience some ship progression. I still remember how happy I was when I finally could afford a Type-6 to start earning the big bucks. :D
Missions pay the same, but it is easier to transport 100 tonnes of cargo on an Anaconda than on a Sidewinder.
 
Ship prices explode exponentially. Imho, one of the worst design decisions in the game.

Missions etc pay the same, no matter whether you're in a Sidewinder or Anaconda. With the current ship price curve you either completely bypass all the progression through small-mid ships or you'll have to play for years to be able to afford one of the big three.

I'm happy I got to experience some ship progression. I still remember how happy I was when I finally could afford a Type-6 to start earning the big bucks. :D
This is one example where FD caved to player complaints as it was not always the way. back in the day, dangerous ranked missions DID pay more........ but you had to be dangerous to be allowed to take them. imo this was a much better system, broken only because there were/are not enough missions on the board.

imo in a system of billions there should be 1000s of missions on the board, so much so we do not get access to all of them off the bat, but we should have to set up filters - doable in advance - and just request those missions.

that way i can filter for <insert what ever mission and a range of ranks here> then once taken have another filter for - download all other missions to this target system that i qualify for as a next filter.
 
Missions pay the same, but it is easier to transport 100 tonnes of cargo on an Anaconda than on a Sidewinder.

Yeah, depending on load out the ratio between how much cargo an Anaconda can carry compared to a Sidewinder is 1:50.

The ratio of cost is 1:4800. And that's stock without the massively expensive big A-rated modules (where's more like 1:15000).
 
A rated Ani: 384 million, 468 cargo
A rated Sidewinder: 0.5 million, 12 cargo
Both have the same jump range (15ly).
Let's say a single trip (fill the cargo bay, undock, travel, dock, undock, return to the origin, and dock) takes 10 minutes.
Time to transport 400 tonnes on the ani: 10 minutes
Time to transport 400 tonnes on the sidewinder: 3,333 minutes (about 56 hours).
While the ration of cost is 1:768 (in millions), how much is your time worth?
 
Sure, once you have the big ship, there's not a lot of reasons to go back. It's about how you get there.

Back in the day (TM) you took step after step climbing the ship ladder. Now you leap right into a very good medium ship.
 
imo in a system of billions there should be 1000s of missions on the board, so much so we do not get access to all of them off the bat, but we should have to set up filters - doable in advance - and just request those missions.

I'd assume they have people on payroll doing the majority of their work. We're just temp workers handling the overflow.

I just barely hit elite trade a few days ago. I hit elite combat nearly a year ago. I'd be annoyed if I couldn't take elite trade missions.

I'd agree with your proposal if getting 'elite' wasn't more about the amount of time than your actual skill level. Have a pilots federation testing center. Pay X credits to take a mission that tests your ability and give a rank based on your results. They put you in one of their ships and send you to a CZ. If you finish it, you're dangerous. If you finish it in under 10 minutes, you're elite.

Not sure how I'd test Trade and Exploration.
 
I know this is going to be controvertial, but i just don't see the point of credits any more. Players can go from sidewinder to anaconda in a week. Money is so easy to make, rebuys are a joke.

Do you agree? Do you think FD might as well just remove credits, or just award everyone a bazillion credits as soon as they start a new CMDR?

Is this good for the game or bad for it?

If ED was a game where there was something to spend these massive amounts of credits, for example, like X's empire building, then there might be a use for them all. If it was a single player game, well, i still think it would be far too easy to make credits, but hey single player.

Personally though, i'm not aware of any MMO which has "gold" raining from the sky like ED has with credits. I think in most MMOs it would be considered very bad for the game.


I would prefer to have more ways to spend credits than to remove them.

Perhaps FDev should consider adding more expenses.
  • Changing the paint on your ship could cost credits.
  • Docking fees (the previous games had them. I never understood why they were removed. FDev could do a lot with this. Make docking fees depend on the type of station, on the economy, on cmdr status with the ruling faction. You might earn discounts for services rendered etc. etc.
  • Overhaul of wear and tear costs, and ship damage. Add a more engaging mechanic for the player to handle this and make it cost more. Also add ways to earn discounts, etc.
  • Fuel costs are ridiculously low now, especially considering the free flow of credits these days.
  • Add a good npc crew mechanic. Make it impossible to fly bigger ships without a certain minimum crew. Revision of the current way crew take your money is in order. Make it possible to sent crew you do not use on leave, instead of having to dismiss them. When crew gets wounded, make the commander pay medical costs to get them back. Make it possible to pay for training of crew.
  • Some ship modules might cost more, like the SRV garage, or the SLF hangar.
  • Possible future expenses: expenses linked to base building and first person gameplay, like weapons, gadgets, modules for player bases etc.
 
If you want it to be 'realistic' then you really should consider...taxes.

25% on all earnings over 100k a day. 10% docking fee (max 10million cr) etc...

I could also imagine the insurance companies maybe think about putting up your insurance fees each time you fly your sidewinder into the ground.
Claim #3 : "Yeah, so I went to pull down the landing gear, but I boosted into the pad instead. Totally not my fault and bad design". CLAIM DENIED.

I'm sure some in here would just love that.
 
my only issue with this comes down to how is it balanced? should all players be forced to do void opal mining or any of the other totally imbalanced money printing presses to be able to access this expensive stuff, or should it be achievable by people playing the game wihtout using the handful of metas?

if yes, then i fear the sink will not be deep enough for the megabillionaires... however make it deep enough to make even them wince, and then your average player will be for ever out of reach.
these issues needed to be stamped on right from the off... IF some stuff was then with hindsite too expensive to reach - lets for arguments sake say the top armour for an anaconda and a size 7 A rated fuel scoop.................... then have periodic sales on where they are reduced in price but without effecting anything else.
No sink is too shallow for a mandatory super galactic income tax.:geek: FDev needs to have a 3 factions plus independents impose the Black Space Deal program (seriously). Space stations & planetary stations DO HAVE O&M from repeated exposure to space debris and harsh space weather. The extent of structural damage incurred during your space trucking odyssey to Hutton Orbital is living proof of this. Except now it's applied to stations.

Every space station should apply

1. a docking fee every time a Cmnder enters/exits the mailbox slot. Doesn't matter if you dock or not, you've utilized the facility, therefore you PAY your taxes. This goes toward O&M of said space/planetary station. Note: This feature should be exclusively focused on those stations within the bubble due to procedural generation of star system. So the usage of these stations would be based on trade data routes (which sites like eddb.io could easily validate). And those space stations that are not commonly used would significantly degrade over time. To the point where they become most vulnerable to Thargoid attack. Or become compromised, so the possibility of your DC malfunctioning as you enter the mail slot/land on planetary pad is close to 100%. Which could cause your pet Anaconda, billion dollar void opal cargo hold type 9 heavy to suicidal kamakzie into the station/other ships. And leave you with a potential rebuy screen etc. If station is neglected for a sufficient number of PP cycles, then they could collapse to ruin. At which point, emergency evacuation missions could be triggered. And once the fire burns out, a PG goal could be conducted to restore the station. Much the way this is happening in DW2

2. Personal Cmnder Income tax. This would be a base income tax each game cycle PP is updated for the PP factions you support (to include independent factions). And a varying ship/vessel navigation tax every time you access/travel through a star system. The only exception is Anarchy systems with zero population. The personal income tax would vary based on
  • number of ships a Cmnder has
  • type/class of ship a Cmnder has
  • what PP faction player belongs to
  • what star system (i.e which faction controls said star system) a player happens to be traveling/docked in atm
  • Cmnder risk behaviors (e.g. aggressive PvP killer v. a PvE pirate pilot who attacks only NPCs v. a pacifist PvE trader pilot who's a dedicated space trucker)
This would create a more dynamic money sink for both poor n00bs & wealthier/established players alike. This galaxy tax money then goes towards maintenance of all faction stations (if player is aligned with a PP faction) and to independent systems (if player is not currently aligned with any PP faction)

This income tax plan would put all Cmders into income brackets:

Example: 0% for n00b Cmnder pilots who are still flying in the new restricted n00b pilot system areas. The lowest base tax for Cmders between ranks of Harmless to Mostly Harmless rank e.g. 10%. Increasingly higher tax as you raise in rank with elite Cmders paying the highest tax.

Also tax could vary between Explorer/Trade/Combat/CQC ranks:

Example: The more a player shows an aggressive behavior pattern towards other players in a cycle, the higher their tax (as their destructive tendencies towards other player's ships/property is greater). In a sense, this is a sort of insurance payment towards other players for rebuy.

Income taxes is one reasonable counter measure to provide a dynamic credit sink. So the players sitting on their billions of void opal credits can stop complaining and get back to earning again. :geek:
 
now that horse has bolted i dunno what the answer is. i would accept a complete asset and credit wipe for the whole game i really would. (and after 1700 hrs in game even with all my rules and what not, it is still a sizeable sum over all - but i do not think others would like this at all.
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. Because seriously. Such draconian measures are 100% illogical. Especially since the clear solution is to DELETE your existing, over bloated, billion dollar credit account. Which may have been the trust fund baby from the carefree rondezvous of your ship's mining laser and that rich void opal asteroid fissure... 😆

What's so complicated about simply starting over with a brand new loaned Sidewinder toaster? So you can enjoy the benefits of the updated, n00b friendly system update. :p

And TBH after accumulating 50 million hard earned credits (all of which were doing a variety of missions and zero mining/void opal based) I would have to disagree. Especially since I've yet to buy my dream ship (fully engineered Python and a Cutter) to date. And TBH, I'd still disagree even if my income was at the 1 billion mark. I'd rather have several viable, immersion/RPG friendly alternatives to sink my money into.

this is why i have come around to the idea of an Elite Dangerous 2 - even tho David Braben insisted this was not going to happen. This would allow lessons learned from the 1st game to be implemented along with possible new technology which may be harder to put into an old game
So long as the life time pass for ED carried over to the new game, as well as ship skins etc i think that could fly. (and because it is a new game, everyone could be offered the cobra IV ;)
Well you'll get zero micro aggressive arguments from me there Cmnder. :LOL: I just hope they'll give considerable thought to adding space legs and SC planetary interiors i.e. restricted (for design restrictions due to procedural generation) only to systems of PP home world stations, planetary stations in specific star systems like where Colonia is based, and/or systems which are restricted for no explicable reason like Witch's Reach. Yes nothing appears to be existing there yet btw.


But it's nice to implement fundamental features like EVA/space leg into the new base game. So that restricted systems like these can benefit from future modular expansion (much the way a modular sand box design simulation like The Sims turned that franchise into one of the best loved games in the industry).

Also hope they go significantly stronger on the lore/PP faction development. Lore is the glue which holds the franchise together. e.g. without the Lore of TES/Fallout, there would be no need for these franchises to continue existing. F76 is the perfect example of what disaster can befall a well loved, 20 human year old franchise when the devs neglect/deign to consider the impact of franchise lore.

I also hope they'll add more immersive/interactive sandbox game play elements. Like increasing the survival aspect (without making this too grindy) the way Empyrion Galactic, Space Engineer and X4 have successfully integrated the space legs/survival aspect into the game play to date.
 
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