Space Force Presents: Operation Drag Queen

[rootsrat]

Fair enough.

As for your points, I'd counter just a bit by pointing out that hyperbole like "holding developers hostage" isn't exactly congruent with "rather level headed". Space Force are only going to be using valid in-game tools (like other valid tools such as the block feature) to role play pilots dissatisfied with the Pilots Federation lawmakers. Having such a clearly stated goal is the exact opposite of "mindless".

C'mon now, you know well that "I am just role playing a mass murderer" is the most lame excuse ever in the history of ganking and griefing. There will be a few that TRULY role play such character, but 99.9% of the cases it's utter nonsense and a lame excuse.

Should we call the police then?

No, but we could try posting constructive criticism on the forums and wait for the developers' response without being drag drama queens.

 

[Starmony]

Space Invaders: No, not in the slightest. Their behavior was purely mindless, <snip>

Wait, you said that you "don't agree with mindless ganking or griefing". Implying that the "mindless"ness is a key determining factor. But the Space Invaders aren't griefers cause they're mindless? That must not be it. Oh - it's about how effective they are! Because they're predictable and easy to avoid, they can't grief. So griefers = challenging enemies.

I propose to rename the game "Dark Souls" to "Dark Griefers".

 

[Riverside]

leaving them to deal with the NPC law enforcement which, I must say, were despatched to the combat area with remarkable speed. Maybe SJA has beefed them up a little also.

I let an Elite T-10 NPC pirate interdict me earlier to see if the AI had been updated (it hadn't) but I did notice the police dropped in almost immediately (high security system), but then two of the three police vipers went red, so that's back again

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Phisto, I asked you a reasonable question and justified why I was asking it. You are skirting around what (for me) is a minor issue, claiming that it is justification to scorn those with a different view from your own.

Just give it a name that we can all agree on & be done with it.

I'm not just "giving it a name" just because you fancy doing so. What Ryan and company are doing is playing Elite in such a way as to protest FDEV's poor decision making and thought process regarding a an aspect of said game. In fact, based on the history of changes in this game especially in regards to PvP (heat meta being the most obvious example) they're probably doing the best thing possible to get it sorted quickly (one way or another).

And if one don't agree with their method, it's fine. But use your words like I just did. It blows my mind you would say calling them hostage takers is a "minor issue!" You should only call people who have actually taken hostages hostage takers. Is that so weird to understand?

That kind of silly fear mongering is absolutely deserving of scorn.

 

[Morbad]

In that case Justice Stewart was part of the majority side of the USA supreme court which overturned an obscenity conviction - thus raising the bar higher for what constituted law breaking behavior than had been deemed sufficient to convict in a lower court...

The outcome of the case is neither here nor there, IMO.

In my view, any legal precedent (which would include anything that Frontier could be punishing players over) should be based on something more substantial than subjective gut feelings.

So I just love that someone tried to use it to define ganking as whatever they felt like calling ganking. Using the case as an analogy, it would imply folks are too quick to call something ganking/griefing, and that only the highest authorities are qualified to dictate it arbitrarily. Luckily for us, the highest authorities already have - FDev itself said unprovoked attacks without a clear in-game reason were just fine!

Yes, I'm as confident that Justice Stewart, were he still alive today and somehow working for Frontier Support, would be just as likely to rule against the frivolous application of the term 'griefer' as he would be horrified at just how much wholesome mainstream media I can fap to.

 

[Starmony]

C'mon now, you know well that "I am just role playing a mass murderer" is the most lame excuse ever in the history of ganking and griefing. There will be a few that TRULY role play such character, but 99.9% of the cases it's utter nonsense and a lame excuse.

That you find it lame does not invalidate it as a reason. I find lots of role play scenarios / commander "backgrounds" pretty cringy and lame, but I wouldn't argue that a cringy reason equals no reason. You are not the sole arbiter of what constitutes "truly role play".

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

drama queens.

See? You don't have to call people "hostage takers" to make your point.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

In my view, any legal precedent (which would include anything that Frontier could be punishing players over) should be based on something more substantial than subjective gut feelings.

Yes, I edited (but perhaps too late) to put up front that I strongly disliked the subjectivity of that statement. Personally I feel it's so vague as to be a threat to free speech.

But that said, if one is going to cherry pick supreme court examples, at least pick a case that actually supports ones argument.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

That was no explanation at all then and isn't one now.

Clearly, most people don't 'know it when they see it', because most people do not have ESP and are not privy to the motivations of the player behind the CMDR they presume to be a 'griefer'.

Except it is the perfect explanation for something that cannot be neatly standardized and quantified and is subject to interpretation.

Back in that time (circa 1954) the subject was Obscenity. Classical works of art, such as Hieronymus Bosch’s “The Garden of Earthly Delights”, Francisco de Goya’s “The Nude Maja”, or even Katsushika Hokusai’s “The Dream of the Fisherman’s Wife” were not characterized as Obscene, despite their depictions of nudity, and these pieces were on public display in museums with no social outcry. Yet other works, including Hugh Hefner's Playboy (#1, December, 1953), were considered Obscene, yet fought to defend their position as a modern form of artistic expression and sought protection under the US Constitution.

While the subject matter here differs, the concept remains the same - quantifying and classifying what is a highly subjective term.

If we cross paths in space, and I open fire on you, destroy your ship and send you back to the last station you were docked at, am I "griefing" you? Probably not, even if my own reason for doing so is simply to derive my own pleasure at your expense.

But if I then set a course for that same station, and meet you at the edge of the no-fire zone and destroy again, and again, and again, and again, while deriding your abilities, peppering you with insults, there's going to come a point, very quickly, where, despite the pleasure I am deriving from your plight that my actions are no longer within the confines of normal game play, but constitute what can only be called "Griefing". Yet this is still a subjective term.

As Jean Rostand put it: "On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conquérant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu."
(Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god.)

 

[Starmony]

Yes, I'm as confident that Justice Stewart, were he still alive today and somehow working for Frontier Support, would be just as likely to rule against the frivolous application of the term 'griefer' as he would be horrified at just how much wholesome mainstream media I can fap to.

LOL! Can I like this more than once?

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

LOL! Can I like this more than once?

I'm rolling right now. Fabulous post.

 

[Riverside]

I'm not just "giving it a name" just because you fancy doing so. What Ryan and company are doing is playing Elite in such a way as to protest FDEV's poor decision making and thought process regarding a an aspect of said game. In fact, based on the history of changes in this game especially in regards to PvP (heat meta being the most obvious example) they're probably doing the best thing possible to get it sorted quickly (one way or another).

And if one don't agree with their method, it's fine. But use your words like I just did. It blows my mind you would say calling them hostage takers is a "minor issue!" You should only call people who have actually taken hostages hostage takers. Is that so weird to understand?

That kind of silly fear mongering is absolutely deserving of scorn.

You sure do take offence easily Phisto.

The OP is issuing a threat. See how easy that was to resolve?

 

[jasonbarron]

We'll do this in reverse... around here... you'll have to ask me away from here. But I've seen Roots around for a pretty long while, and he seems pretty level headed in my experience.

As for what constitutes a Griefer... Supreme Court Justice Potter Steward said: "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"], and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it [...]", and that is perhaps the most fitting explanation. There is no singular hard and fast definition here, but when it is witnessed, or more aptly, when it is experienced, it is known and recognized.

That was punting when Justice Potter did it, and it's punting now when you do it.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

C'mon now, you know well that "I am just role playing a mass murderer" is the most lame excuse ever in the history of ganking and griefing. There will be a few that TRULY role play such character, but 99.9% of the cases it's utter nonsense and a lame excuse.

Having spent my noob months in powerplay, I'm utterly confident that pulling randos and having them swear allegiance to Zarek Null or die is as true as role playing gets in this game IMO. In bubble, I have never ganked without comms, or wing ganked.

You or others might disagree and feel it a lame excuse to gank, but that opinion is of no consequence. I am blazing my own trail and creating a unique narrative for my pilot, complete with out-of-game media to support his progression from idealistic white hat imperial slavery abolitionist to the steel-booted-thug-of-choice for the Overlord to impose his will on console scrub galaxy.

Z0.

 

[jasonbarron]

Yes, I'm as confident that Justice Stewart, were he still alive today and somehow working for Frontier Support, would be just as likely to rule against the frivolous application of the term 'griefer' as he would be horrified at just how much wholesome mainstream media I can fap to.

Holy god, I'm laughing so hard right now!

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

You sure do take offence easily Phisto.

The OP is issuing a threat. See how easy that was to resolve?

I'm not offended at all. I usually just dislike your posts immensely. Want to see why? Keep reading!

And so what if he did? It's a threat to blow up ships in a video game. NOT. TAKE. HOSTAGES.

 

[Starmony]

You sure do take offence easily Phisto.

The OP is issuing a threat. See how easy that was to resolve?

An in-game threat. Disclaimer: no actual humans will be harmed during Operation Drag Queen.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

That was punting when Justice Potter did it, and it's punting now when you do it.

Agreed, but at least JP punted in the right direction.

 

[Riverside]

An in-game threat. Disclaimer: no actual humans will be harmed during Operation Drag Queen.

So what's the difference? We are not in a game btw, this forum is real life and so are the devs.

 

[Riverside]

I'm not offended at all. I usually just dislike your posts immensely. Want to see why? Keep reading!

And so what if he did? It's a threat to blow up ships in a video game. NOT. TAKE. HOSTAGES.

So you dislike that we agree? Ok I'll take that I guess.