Space Force Presents: Operation Drag Queen
- Thread starter ryan_m
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In fairness, there are quite a few people people in the anti-PvP camp who can't seem to tell the difference between in-game and real-life dynamics. These things have to be spelled out.
Uh, there would still be a lot of snickering.
Dark Souls was pretty weak, actually, and no, just because you want to slap on a quick label to something that is far more complex a matter to make yourself feel better just isn't going to work here. The point I am making and illustrating is the nature of subjective interpretation and the undeniable fact that it is, by this very subjective nature, difficult, if not impossible to define in a manner that is free of ambiguity or interpretation.
Thing is, like Star above, you're rushing past the point, eyes closed, blinders on, visions of victory already in your head, without even realizing you're running the wrong direction here.
To be clear, I am not defending Justice Potter - but merely utilizing the same frame of reference to illustrate that we cannot clearly define something that is, by its nature, ambiguous and as definable as division by zero in the set of real numbers.
Or, as I prefer, the Cilantro test.
Does Cilantro taste good? My vote is no. Your may differ. But can we define "tastes good" based on the flavor of cilantro?
Cilantro does to taste good!
Ah, going the ol' postmodernist route of denying that's there's an objective reality and that every individual experience is equally "real", even internal experiences that only exist in another's brain?
If I strongly disagree that your individual opinion of what's "real" in the world, is that the same as physically assaulting you? Will the police come round me up for thoughtcrime? Because that's what you're implying. Frankly, I find the philosophical underpinnings of your argument to be an insult to actual, real life offense.
Quod Erat Demonstrandum
I agree that many don't differentiate, I don't differentiate but I understand there are some that think there is a difference and depending on the circumstances they have a point. If I am attacked in-game I recognise this is not the same as being attacked IRL, just as punting another driver off the track in a racing game is not the same as doing it IRL.
But they don't have to be spelled out, because the actions don't have to be done at all, or justified if they are.
The attacks would happen anyway, this is just the latest excuse for some high-jinks. The problem is one that needs to be addressed but you can (for the most part) just agree not to use that particular mod, which I understand is happening.
There is no need to spell it out beyond describing the balancing issue with the drag special effect, and there is no need to justify acting like a reprobate in a game where acting like a reprobate is a designed player choice.
ETA here's one I prepared earlier:
That's the entire issue described in a couple of sentences.
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As far as losing you, he was probably referring to the fact black hat pilots' role play is rarely taken seriously . My allegiance to Zarek is generally viewed as a joke or veneer on these boards, whereas someone make 900 repetitive jumps to discover some autogen star system and somehow that's "real" roleplay.
Even less ganky black hats like pirates are often not even distinguished from gankers by many posters
Now on to hear us roar...
The difference from normal operations (I'm guessing, I haven't personally received exact instructions yet) is that the ganking will be performed always with the drag munitions, and all victims will be informed they should lodge complaints with FDev. Operation Healies4Feelies was along a similar line, and did result in a (much too mild) nerf to healies. So it's not impossible this could make an impact, although I wouldn't hold my breath. And it was probably partially tongue in cheek, partially serious, but only Ryan knows that for sure.
The closest parallel I could think of would be if the white hats all got together and used overpowered drag on NPCs to achieve ridiculous and highly visible BGS results, such as locking down Eravate or something. I dunno.
Why is anyone surprised at those group of "PvPers" ganking / griefing others? They have been doing them since day 1. Like old saying, crying baby gets milk... Just ignore them.
I'm not an "anti-pvp camper", though I do not engage in PvP play, because I don't generally enjoy PvP play. If I want to PvP play with spaceships, there's CQC, and that's enough for me. But I don't advocate for removing PvP from the game, as there are people who do enjoy it, and should be allowed to enjoy it.
I don't agree with forcing it on someone who does not enjoy it or wish to participate - specifically when various "champions and heroes" take it upon themselves to insert themselves into well-known, established PvE Private Groups, under false pretense, knowing full well they will be ejected from said private groups when they are reported to those groups owners and operators. This malice aforethought demonstrates an intent, and makes a clear distinction as to the nature of the behavior.
In Open Play, this is perfectly normal, acceptable, and reasonable behavior, until an undefinable line is crossed and it ceases to be so, but we've already done quite a few posts about ambiguity and subjective interpretation, which, with thanks, our own jasonbarron so clearly illustrated by participating in The Cilantro Test - a variation on the Roth Test, to harken back to the original example of ambiguity and subjective interpretation.
So did the PvP go ahead and do their murderous rampage of all the lowly little carebears yet?
Cos murdering those carebears is really going to prove a point about how broken the effect is given that it will make very little difference to the outcome of a gank. An unsuspecting carebear will die regardless of the drag effect - the forums are rife with it happening etc....
Cos murdering those carebears is really going to prove a point about how broken the effect is given that it will make very little difference to the outcome of a gank. An unsuspecting carebear will die regardless of the drag effect - the forums are rife with it happening etc....
In ED crying babies get ganked, not milk.
(Bolding mine).
There you go! You get it! It's actually much more objective a term than you think; you actually just perfectly described the accurate definition of griefing! It's not having your ship blown up in a game; it's having your gameplay repeatedly interrupted by someone going out of their way to harass you in particular. We can put this to bed now.
Shush up about that part, TEBORI!
I just have to think there has to be a much better way to illustrate and demonstrate the point here, assuming that point is to highlight the problem with the change to Drag Munitions without dragging (pun intended) the civilian populace into this for no other reason except to serve as an example.
I really want to make a comparison to other activities, where committing atrocities to illustrate a point is no different, but it makes people get really uppity, and I wind up getting charged infractions for all the whining, so.. you'll have to ask me somewhere else about it.
I would counter, even Challenge the lot of you planning for this - do this among yourselves. Make your videos using your own membership. The demonstrations will be every bit as valid, perhaps even moreso, as most of you claim to be the absolute best at this, and leave everyone else out of it. I'm almost 100% certain you can't do it. You won't do it. Not a one of you can rise to meet my challenge and prove me wrong here.
Eh I suspect the cooldown period will be enough for a well put together big 3 to escape unless it's really poorly built or flown. The FSD will still charge while being shelled around, and it will only take aligning towards target briefly and getting one boost off.
Just my untested opinion though obviously so maybe I'm wrong. With a shorter or no cooldown, I'd agree 100%.
And something like a t-9, t-7, gen purpose python, etc - they are screwed for precisely this reason. They won't last long enough to get the chance to use a boost in cooldown to align their vector to FSD.
And yet, what if, by that same token, I am justified in this action, and even demonstrate that justification by showing that I have been, in fact, paid by someone else, to pursue and bankrupt you, by forcing you to pay rebuy after rebuy, after rebuy, because you dared to trade slaves in their precious Aisling Duval space, or because you failed to pay tribute to Archon Delaine when you crossed a single system of his territory?
Suddenly my actions, while repeated, disruptive, unwelcomed and unwanted, fall within a scope people could, viable, say "Oh, I can see how that's justified then."
Or, perhaps, that station you are trapped in, lies in the territory of a power I am seeking to undermine, and you are pledged to the very power I seek to undermine, and you just happen to be a very easy target, and I am simply farming merits by blowing you up over and over, and my tirade of insults are merely my efforts to motivate you to fight for what you profess to follow? Still the same thing? Now maybe not. Again, it's that subjective nature of the issue.
What about throwing in a Grom missile while your at it? Shut down the boost, reduce turning performance, and disrupt FSD operations while pushing them along with some Force shells, and you've got a real trifecta here. Bring a couple friends with cytoscramblers and enzyme missiles while you're at it.
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