Space Force Presents: Operation Drag Queen

[Ziggy Stardust]

It's kind of amusing how he you don't realize that Aark's post actually support's Phisto's statement. Carry on, man. Glad to see you posting again

"You people"

It's also amusing how you don't realise Aark is blaming "us people" for all those things. And you chiming in is sublime irony.

There's 1 person to blame, the one making death threats or similar unsavoury behaviour. Just because I happen to enjoy the same sort of gameplay, doesn't make me responsible for the actions of others who also enjoy that kind of gameplay.

Here endeth the lesson Good to see you too.

 

[Kaocraft]

bypassing the superlative (chill! ) ... you do realize terrorism is just another way of warfare, right? the only difference in legitimacy is the amount of people and wealth backing any specific faction (or state). or have you watched that much neolib crap tv to even get that wrong???

Dude I get you. But you're ceding ground here. "Just another form of warfare" is an admission that we're talking about warfare in the first place. Warfare isn't persuasion. It's coercion. "Operation Drag Queen" isn't a demonstration. It's a tantrum.

 

[PFLUEGGE]

This thread is not about simple ganking.

I say it is. Simple ganking to show how ridiculous this change is. Maybe next time have the NDA beta with people that understand the game or use an actual open beta.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Speed is fun? Huh, never got that sort of thrill. I’d much rather have a Guillie suit, a large caliber rifle and a scope and sit more still than death for hours on end to deliver that one perfect shot than rush about madly. So I’m going to have to put the “Subjective” stamp on this. Sure, I get some people do enjoy it. Some people consider NASCAR a sport too. To each their own here.

Now, as to being competitive... it would seem to me the counter for something like this might lie in another special effect, Screening Shell isn’t it? That frag effect designed to shoot down incoming missiles? That, combined with some of that fancy FA-Off maneuvering folks like to boast about? Isn’t that what PvP play is supposed to be all about? Showing off your mastery of combat AND flight skills?

But that’s not the vibe I’m getting here. I’m getting a “they’re making me learn to deal with something I’ve been doing for years in a new way and I don’t want to have to get better, and I don’t want to adapt, and if I can’t have my way, here come the toys, right out of the pram, oh and I’m going to relieve myself on them first so you have to touch them that way.”

That’s what I’m getting from this.

Yes, it is a change. They changed Exploration too, but you didn’t see a Special Operation headed up by a bunch of ADS hold-outs blowing up completely random players simply because they didn’t like the change. We did have a 200+ page thread about it, there was a lot of foot-stomping, and a lot of “no, you deal with it.” and that was pretty much the end of that.

Back on the subject of fun, here’s something else lots of people consider fun: picking up a load of Bio-waste, flying it a few light years to the next station to drop it off, picking up a load of hydrogen fuel, flying that to another station a few light years away, and so on, until they’ve had all the fun they can stand.

What they don’t find fun is some maniac with a misplaced grudge, inflated sense of importance and a load of drag munitions jumping them, blasting them, not even saying “That’s to show Frontier how much I don’t like something that has nothing to do with you.” and having to start doing what they were doing all over again.

You might as well post videos of throwing Weighted bags of puppies into the river in protest - it wouldn’t be any less offensive to those who don’t share the same definition of what fun is.

You cant evade or block frag shrapnel, and even one fragment applies the effect. If it were just on seekers it'd be one thing. Having it auto-applied by a turret is not cool though. Removing it from frags and packhounds would greatly improve things.

 

[jasonbarron]

Maybe he realized that Ark's statement, when read with a different presumptive set of values, did support his point and he was double-secret-probation meta-ironically agreeing in order to highlight this lack of self-awareness on the part of his ideological opponent?

As much as you/Ozric/Ziggy/whoever wants to speak from a "different set of presumptive values" I think I'll just stick with an objective set of values, thanks. PvPers who are playing within the rules, spirit and parameters of the game are often times maligned by people who think only their subjective viewpoints, playstyles and personal feelings should be taken into consideration when conversing/playing together and quite regularly hurl insults up to and including accusations real world sexual deviance and hopes that players' families perish in a fiery car crash and every other insult running the gamut of unacceptability.

You guys can apply as much subjective value parsing as you like, the objective facts simply do not care about your feelings.

 

[znôrt]

I dont think people who literally tell others their opinion is worthless and they should stay out of a discussion can complain about dismissive attitudes. And if you intentionally and explicitly publicly announce you are going to be a bunghole, you should not be upset when people point out you are acting like a bunghole. Beyond that, obviously you have daft angry nerdbois on every side of every internet discussion, and I have frequently defended pvp from the 'they are like hitler times ten!' crowd.

i'm not considering 'who is right' (i don't think any part in this really is ), just confirming the facts. you seem to imply they deserve it but then ... who decides who is a bunghole? the louder crowd? who started this? some might say the first (real) ganker (in game), but that's really simplistic. it has come to this through megabytes of badly coded/decoded text. now it's a mess, and we have already factions and enemities ...

But this "omg wy people so mean after we threaten and insult them?" complaining is feeble. Because thst is either incredibly insincere, or some need to 'git gud' at basic human interaction.

i agree it is feeble, i already admitted it's not the best communication, i don't think it's insincere. it happens, i'm witness. people not seeing it or not acknowledging it doesn't change that. saying it is insincere could give the impression you are sort of denying it?

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

That's a rather generalising view of people, and actually ignoring a lot of the reasons given in this very thread.

I said some people. Feel free to elaborate on your point here.

And some take issue because annoying others just to make a point is a pretty lame thing to do. No hatred or ignorance needed for that.

Annoying others just to make a point is one of the finest ways anything gets changed ever.

As much as Phisto and I don't get along, I agree 100% with that statement. A lot of PvE players see that you gank and suddenly you must be a terrible person in real life. This was clearly apparent in the DG2 aftermath.

When you and I agree on something so totally there's got to be something to it!

 

[jasonbarron]

"You people"

It's also amusing how you don't realise Aark is blaming "us people" for all those things. And you chiming in is sublime irony.

There's 1 person to blame, the one making death threats or similar unsavoury behaviour. Just because I happen to enjoy the same sort of gameplay, doesn't make me responsible for the actions of others who also enjoy that kind of gameplay.

Here endeth the lesson Good to see you too.

Please refer to post #566 for my rebuttal

 

[znôrt]

Dude I get you. But you're ceding ground here. "Just another form of warfare" is an admission that we're talking about warfare in the first place. Warfare isn't persuasion. It's coercion. "Operation Drag Queen" isn't a demonstration. It's a tantrum.

yeah it is war, that's the whole point! and i'm a pacifist! but this is a game. and there is a company which could use a strong message from their userbase.

if someone gets his/her ship gibbed ... well, that was on the contract anyway, better have read it before going into open. that's a non issue, sorry. thus the equation with terrorism seemed far fetched to me, there are no victims here (unless you want to count users receiving a subpar service from a big company).

 

[Vardaugas]

You cant evade or block frag shrapnel, and even one fragment applies the effect. If it were just on seekers it'd be one thing. Having it auto-applied by a turret is not cool though. Removing it from frags and packhounds would greatly improve things.

I said it twice before: Move drag effect away from frags and to cannons. Move the boost disruption away from drag munitions to its own experimental for dumbfire missiles. Better avoidance possibilities and more skill based application of a powerful effect.

 

[Ian Skippy]

i'm not considering 'who is right' (i don't think any part in this really is ), just confirming the facts. you seem to imply they deserve it but then ... who decides who is a bunghole? the louder crowd? who started this? some might say the first (real) ganker (in game), but that's really simplistic. it has come to this through megabytes of badly coded/decoded text. now it's a mess, and we have already factions and enemities ...



i agree it is feeble, i already admitted it's not the best communication, i don't think it's insincere. it happens, i'm witness. people not seeing it or not acknowledging it doesn't change that. saying it is insincere could give the impression you are sort of denying it?

Normally it would make for a fine philosophical debate, but when someone starts by saying he wants to make as many people upset as possible we've solved the 'who is annoying?' conundrum.

I said some people. Feel free to elaborate on your point here.



Annoying others just to make a point is one of the finest ways anything gets changed ever.



When you and I agree on something so totally there's got to be something to it!

I'm going to explain something about human behaviour. Trust me, I am an internet expert with an msc in clinical neuropsychology and close to obtaining my PhD. Listen up, this is some mad science for ya'll:

People dont like it when you intentionally annoy them. Even if you think it'll get you what you want. That has nothing to do with ignorance or fear-mongering. If you annoy people they'll consider you annoying.

Weird but true!

 

[znôrt]

I said it twice before: Move drag effect away from frags and to cannons.

good idea. here's one better: get rid of those lame garden sprayers already. it's pathetic.

ok, i'll get my coat now ...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Please refer to post #566 for my rebuttal

Doesn't address what I said.

Address the post. Don't cop out.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Oh you know all those propaganda videos you spoke about.

People like Ryan, Rinzler, Hazzmango, All help the community out quite a bit. They will sit down and teach you to get better.

When GCI was formed back in the day. I joined it and was taught by people like Bazinga, Space Mage DownF0rce and Nyxi as well as Potter and some of the SDC guys like Derthgrips, Jot and Hellz.

These guys have literally put the community on their back.

You need to check yourself Aunt. Your posts are getting absolutely ridiculous.

Sure, they are willing to help out those who join their discord asking for advice, and i've never said otherwise. What about in game though? What about the dozens of players they have blown up without offering them any advice? Is there any of them who stop short of the kill to help the player learn in game? Perhaps then escorting them to a station and giving them some outfitting suggestions?

And no, these guys have not put the community on their back. They are willing to help those who want to learn about PvP, which is a tiny part of the game and an entirely optional part as well.

I have lots of respect for most of those players you mention, as players, as teachers, and informers, but when those among them who are gankers as well, go into gank mode, i do not respect that.

And regardless, its all at a tangent to this thread. Some of those names you mention will be taking part in this action, and while they are doing ganking, they are not educating, they are just blowing people up for the lulz, something they do anyway, under the guise of trying to get FD to change things.

Every time there is a change that affects PvP in a way they don't like, we have a thread like this. "We are going to gank people until FD change things to satisfy us!"

Its rather sad.

Its funny, because i'm leaning towards agreeing with most around here that the current version of drags is probably not a good idea. A longer cooldown at least should be considered, and possibly not allowing drags on frag cannons since its hard to counter them. So, even though i'm probably in agreement with those people over the change, i can still disagree with their methods.

Perhaps if they want to be known for contributiong to the community in a positive way, they should stop cotributing in a negative way?

I mean, you ask someone about SDC, and what is the first thing that comes into most people's minds? Is it about their training they give to people who also want to be PvPers? Or, is it "Oh gods, not them (censored)"?

SDC have a reputation, and they have worked hard to get that reputation. Anything good they have done has been completely overshadowed by their ganking activities, which they are keen to shout about from the highest rooftops.

 

[jasonbarron]

Doesn't address what I said.

Address the post. Don't cop out.

Don't hide behind the sad excuse of lack of proper reading comprehension. That's the real cop out

 

[Agony_Aunt]

You read Ryan's "How to Build" a PvE or PvP ship guides?

I seem to recall reading them after he posted them on reddit. Excellent guides.

That isn't SDC propoganda. That is SDC at their best, helping and advising people.

This thread is SDC at their worst, and unfortunately, its their default way of interacting with players and FD.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Normally it would make for a fine philosophical debate, but when someone starts by saying he wants to make as many people upset as possible we've solved the 'who is annoying?' conundrum.

Being annoying isn't bad - it's effective.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Don't hide behind the sad excuse of lack of proper reading comprehension. That's the real cop out

Just address the post.

 

[znôrt]

Normally it would make for a fine philosophical debate, but when someone starts by saying he wants to make as many people upset as possible we've solved the 'who is annoying?' conundrum.

well played! i'll second phisto again here:

Being annoying isn't bad - it's effective.

with the big caveat (we all already know) there is a fine line ...

dunno, sometimes i dream of a world were we can blow each other to bits and disagree and still be nice.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Sure, they are willing to help out those who join their discord asking for advice, and i've never said otherwise. What about in game though? What about the dozens of players they have blown up without offering them any advice? Is there any of them who stop short of the kill to help the player learn in game? Perhaps then escorting them to a station and giving them some outfitting suggestions?

And no, these guys have not put the community on their back. They are willing to help those who want to learn about PvP, which is a tiny part of the game and an entirely optional part as well.

I have lots of respect for most of those players you mention, as players, as teachers, and informers, but when those among them who are gankers as well, go into gank mode, i do not respect that.

And regardless, its all at a tangent to this thread. Some of those names you mention will be taking part in this action, and while they are doing ganking, they are not educating, they are just blowing people up for the lulz, something they do anyway, under the guise of trying to get FD to change things.

Every time there is a change that affects PvP in a way they don't like, we have a thread like this. "We are going to gank people until FD change things to satisfy us!"

Its rather sad.

Its funny, because i'm leaning towards agreeing with most around here that the current version of drags is probably not a good idea. A longer cooldown at least should be considered, and possibly not allowing drags on frag cannons since its hard to counter them. So, even though i'm probably in agreement with those people over the change, i can still disagree with their methods.

Perhaps if they want to be known for contributiong to the community in a positive way, they should stop cotributing in a negative way?

I mean, you ask someone about SDC, and what is the first thing that comes into most people's minds? Is it about their training they give to people who also want to be PvPers? Or, is it "Oh gods, not them (censored)"?

SDC have a reputation, and they have worked hard to get that reputation. Anything good they have done has been completely overshadowed by their ganking activities, which they are keen to shout about from the highest rooftops.

Their rep is quite outstanding for people that understand the game unlike you. Its a shame you fail to understand this.

All over ganking people in a video game. And then teaching them how to defend themselves.

The only reason they are shown in a negative light is because the skill gap between them and the rest of the community. This is no different than high diamond players talking to low silver player in league.

They just dont understand the game, and they envy their position.

They are some of the best players in the game, they are bad guys because they want the challenge of fighting the whole damn galaxy. And everytime people end up trying to fight against them. Those people get ridiculed for just being a PVPer in general by people like you.

So they join them and become bad guys themselves.

Ironically everything they have done. Is because of people like you.

How does that make you feel?