Valve Index VR headset

[TorTorden_VR]

I have always had reservations about the Pimax in terms of how well it would perform on games such as Elite and other more resource intensive games - as you say, anything other than those 20 minute wonders (which will likely work quite well) will have performance issues. My play time is generally not spent with those 20 minute wonder games.

There is little chance of enjoying Elite on the Valve Index at the120 or 144Hz modes, with the additional FOV it'll be interesting to see how it plays at 90Hz even. The Index has the same res my Vive Pro which is just on the cusp of mantaining 90FPS on my system (which is your spec) with Steam and in-game SS set to 100% and lots of settings on medium other than textures, adding the extra 20 degrees of FOV would likely tip rigs of our specs into reprojection an awful lot (meh). The Index's 80Hz mode may help with performance though....

I have an Index pre-ordered but I don't hold my hopes out for great performance in Elite, I guess time will tell! I'll likely keep hold of my Vive Pro and decide which I use for certain games. If the Index works well enough then I'll maybe consider selling my Pro + Wireless Adapter to recoup a bit of cash.

Biggest problem for Elite and the pimax is the need for parallel projection which is something of a 30+% performance hit alone, and the Index won't need that.
Also, I suspect the new faster hz also handles motion smoothing, but in stead will allow for rendering 60 real frames instead of 45 and that also shouldn't be a big difference.

But Valve is saying this is a premium set, so it will require a serious rig to run, no doubt.

 

[Gortron]

Pimax's not that bad. The image quality is great, the sweetspot is huge. Software is marred by teething issues though, and the need for parallel projection in some games (khem, Elite, khem) sucks out performance even more. But you can mess with the sliders in software if you're determined enough. Still it's far from console type plug and play experience. Source: had one for testing for a week or two at home.

I wouldn't mind those issues so much if it was just the headset I had to buy but I'd need all the other stuff too. A grand is a lot of money to chuck at something you know is not really ready and will make your PC need even more money thrown at it. It seems to me that the Pimax is probably about 4 years ahead of the Graphics cards needed to power it and by the time the cards are available display tech will have improved way beyond the what we have now and I'd want another headset.

I'm actually starting to think the Rift S is probably the better bet; moderate improvement, wait for the RTX 3080Ti (or AMD to make a comeback) and see how things are. Worst case I can bump up SS really high with a 3080Ti, best case AMD does a Ryzen to the GPU market and the high resolution (high FPS) VR headsets are worth buying.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

I'm actually starting to think the Rift S is probably the better bet; moderate improvement, wait for the RTX 3080Ti (or AMD to make a comeback) and see how things are. Worst case I can bump up SS really high with a 3080Ti, best case AMD does a Ryzen to the GPU market and the high resolution (high FPS) VR headsets are worth buying

I have a question - do you own VR at all? You obviously don't have a Vive, because you mention full kit. If you have Oculus Rift CV1, then a Rift S might be a good choice for you due to your investment in the oculus platform. If not, it is advisable to wait after more Index reviews are out. There are also WMR devices, such as the HP Reverb which depending on the intended usage could be interesting for you.

 

[Gortron]

<snip>

Addendum:
If you need al the other kit as well, then the Index and the new controllers will definitely be the better option, I'm honestly considering getting one of those too, but they would have to make it available for my area first :\
Here's hoping they plan to expand past the first release area.

I'm a bit puzzled by this. I thought (perhaps incorrectly) that you are in Norway? If that is correct why can't you get the Index there? I thought it was an EU wide release but if it isn't then you can just order it as if you are in the UK and it should be available (you might have to pay in GBP). Norway is in the single market and so is the UK (for now, but lets not get bogged down over that), so you should be able to buy something for sale here without paying tariffs. If you are charged extra or they won't sell it then they are breaking the law.

 

[Gortron]

I have a question - do you own VR at all? You obviously don't have a Vive, because you mention full kit. If you have Oculus Rift CV1, then a Rift S might be a good choice for you due to your investment in the oculus platform. If not, it is advisable to wait after more Index reviews are out. There are also WMR devices, such as the HP Reverb which depending on the intended usage could be interesting for you.

Yes, I have a CV1. I'm holding my horses at the moment.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Not at all Sir.

Norway is in the EAA not the EU, so yay and nope. Not available.
Every time I have visited the valve website it's "not available for your country"
All the regulations and non of the votes.
We are almost the Puerto Rico of EU at this point..

Yeah It's just plumb wierd and they won't let my buy from abroad and ship to me either.
Could be since they want to include taxes and shipping in the store price, like Oculus is doing which makes things a lot easier for me.

Anyhoo I do have the pimax to play with, so it's not like I'm completely missing wide FOV higher res kit.
It's just a touch hinky and fiddly to get working now and then and I find myself mostly relegated to 72hz.
Cause my current main title is DCS and there is no way that will run at 90, not even the cv1 does that.

Running DCS and using FPSVR, it tells my CPU is chugging along at a whopping 15-20% utilisation, and my GPU not going over 60%...
Why are my frametimes so high then ?

It's not really making much sense.

I'm thinking that if you don't have either really small IPD or really huge IPD, the Rift S will be the safest bet performance wise, and having the same vertical resolution as the 5k.
And from what I gather the lenses on that will be a huge upgrade in both area of focus and sweetspot.
What you will be missing with that primarily would be the wider fov.

 

[Gortron]

Not at all Sir.

Norway is in the EAA not the EU, so yay and nope. Not available.
Every time I have visited the valve website it's "not available for your country"
All the regulations and non of the votes.
We are almost the Puerto Rico of EU at this point..

Yeah It's just plumb wierd and they won't let my buy from abroad and ship to me either.
Could be since they want to include taxes and shipping in the store price, like Oculus is doing which makes things a lot easier for me.

Anyhoo I do have the pimax to play with, so it's not like I'm completely missing wide FOV higher res kit.
It's just a touch hinky and fiddly to get working now and then and I find myself mostly relegated to 72hz.
Cause my current main title is DCS and there is no way that will run at 90, not even the cv1 does that.

Running DCS and using FPSVR, it tells my CPU is chugging along at a whopping 15-20% utilisation, and my GPU not going over 60%...
Why are my frametimes so high then ?

It's not really making much sense.

I'm thinking that if you don't have either really small IPD or really huge IPD, the Rift S will be the safest bet performance wise, and having the same vertical resolution as the 5k.
And from what I gather the lenses on that will be a huge upgrade in both area of focus and sweetspot.
What you will be missing with that primarily would be the wider fov.

<self moderation, got a bit political>

Sucks you can’t get it yet. Hopefully you won’t have to wait long.

I’m not so bother about FOV. A bit more would be nice but I’d rather have a sharper image and smoother experience.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Meh.

Life is life and I'm slowly starting to get the 5k into a 'playable' state.

If I was a logical man I should probably cancel the rift s.

After testing last night, though I felt as tough everything was bigger in the 5k.
More to how things should be sized.

Always felt as things where a little small in the rift.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

If I was a logical man I should probably cancel the rift s.

There is one thing going for Rift S and that is inside-out tracking. IDK how better it is from WMR tracking which I was not impressed with at all, apart from that it's probably a downgrade from Pimax, although we need to see comparisons once people get their units and do some testing.

 

[HeavyGroovez]

Meh.

Life is life and I'm slowly starting to get the 5k into a 'playable' state.

If I was a logical man I should probably cancel the rift s.

After testing last night, though I felt as tough everything was bigger in the 5k.
More to how things should be sized.

Always felt as things where a little small in the rift.

Yeah, for me 5k+ near field scale is noticeably larger than the Vive Pro and Rift and actually feels closer to reality.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Honestly if anyone can manage inside out tracking, it will be Oculus.

And from what I have read most WMR devices use two cameras.
The S should have five.
And from what I hear the lenses should be something else.
I'm probably keeping my pre order for compatibility with Oculus exclusives and general curiosity.

Also Wags over at Eagle Dynamics gave it a huge thumbs up.
So only reason I would see not to get this would be for those who can't fit in the IPD range.

There is one thing going for Rift S and that is inside-out tracking. IDK how better it is from WMR tracking which I was not impressed with at all, apart from that it's probably a downgrade from Pimax, although we need to see comparisons once people get their units and do some testing.

He pimax tracking is the same as the vive and upcoming index.
And it performs just like my vive did in that regard.

It does also have some inside, gyro based tracking, but I don't se any reason to use that.
It's on level with the basic gear VR tracking and only rotational.
With drift. If anything using lighthouses it's better than what I remember the vive being.
But that could simple be because the 5k doesn't flop around on my face like the vive do.

 

[Sierra_Hotel]

Also Wags over at Eagle Dynamics gave it a huge thumbs up.

Oh...?

 

[TorTorden_VR]

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=238589

Hey everyone,

Oculus was kind enough to send us a couple Rift S kits to ensure best performance in DCS World. Based on the previews I've been reading from GDC, I was expecting more of a lateral quality move, with added inside-out tracking. However, compared to the Rift, I'm seeing a significantly higher resolution in DCS World where instrumentation is much easier to read, as well as spotting units outside the cockpit. Looking around the Hornet cockpit, I can read EVERYTHING. I'm very impressed with the DCS World experience in the Rift S. Inside-out tracking has been flawless for me, and Rift S setup could not be easier. If you are a Rift owner, I'd certainly suggest taking a very hard look at the Rift S; I find the experience considerably better.

Oculus has not asked me to write this, nor compensated in any way. I'm just a bit giddy after just flying with it.

Also, I’m sure you’re asking: where is the VR performance boost!? It’s coming. The VR optimization of the Caucasus map is done, and now the team is optimizing the other maps for improved VR performance. Once done and tested, we’ll release this in a future Open Beta.

I'm starting a new sticky for this impressive device.

Thanks

And cockpit legibility is a lot more crucial in DCS than Elite, and the gauges and numbers are actually important.
In diference the game play and HUD in elite it's like comparing Lego Duplo with mechanical engineering.

 

[Sierra_Hotel]

Cockpit readability is really the main reason I haven't given DCS more of a go. Tried it out in the default Mustang and was kind of disappointed. Same reason I haven't flown Xplane more. Tried to use it for some training the other day and it's just pointless when you can't read any of the instruments. That's a pretty promising review.

And at your analogy. Love it

 

[VR StarLightPL]

He pimax tracking is the same as the vive and upcoming index.
And it performs just like my vive did in that regard.

I was not clear, I meant besides inside-out tracking, rift s is (probably) a downgrade from pimax.

 

[HeavyGroovez]

I think I'm going to get both a Rift S and an Index. The Rift S will be great for games where I struggle to make frametime with the Vive Pro (Euro Truck and ACC being the main culprits) The Index will bridge the gap between my Pimax and Vive Pro.

If I had over 5 grand kicking around spare the XTAL would be top of the list though. Can't wait until that tech is available at consumer prices a few years from now.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

I was not clear, I meant besides inside-out tracking, rift s is (probably) a downgrade from pimax.

From what I can tell from specs.
Probably just the fov.
Vertical res per eye is at 1440 for both, and horizontal resolution varies with fov and ipd adjustment.

Large or full fov on 5k is out, especially in elite needing parallel compatibility.
And on a 1080ti 90hz seems like a pipe dream so it's also left at simply 72hz.

 

[Sierra_Hotel]

So, random thought about parallel projection. If I understand it correctly, the issue with the Pimax is that the screens are canted at an angle and this causes an issue with the full FOV projection. If it's a problem on the Pimax, isn't it going to be an issue on the Index as well since the screens are canted at an angle in it?

 

[TorTorden_VR]

So, random thought about parallel projection. If I understand it correctly, the issue with the Pimax is that the screens are canted at an angle and this causes an issue with the full FOV projection. If it's a problem on the Pimax, isn't it going to be an issue on the Index as well since the screens are canted at an angle in it?

Yup, that's very likely.

 

[Sierra_Hotel]

Well, that could certainly be an issue