I don't mind that it's a grind so much per se, but rather that it's a meta grind that makes no real sense for my Commander contextually in the game universe. I agree with you in general otherwise. Frontier can't really balance around either extreme and have the combat make sense in all scenarios.
Small ship combat sucks
- Thread starter Neutrino Sunset
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There was supposed to be a message beyond the usual melodrama? I must have missed it. Is there a thread somewhere with the TL: DR version?
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The Replicated Man
T
Small ships once engineered rock. Unfortunately in their stock unengineered format they are paper planes.
I think you need to do the engineering grind, engineer your ship then give us a review.
Flying a unengineered ship and complaining about it is like starting a free trial and trying to review the entire game.
I think you need to do the engineering grind, engineer your ship then give us a review.
Flying a unengineered ship and complaining about it is like starting a free trial and trying to review the entire game.
I made a mini series of me trying to get in to small ship combat.
It ended up being a series of how not to fly an Eagle.
Small ships do need a buff, or some new variants which are significantly better.
It ended up being a series of how not to fly an Eagle.
Small ships do need a buff, or some new variants which are significantly better.
I know it doesn't really address the whole of your point but if you're determined to do combat in a small ship, it's probably best to make sure it's a Vulture.
Overall, though, small ships in ED are kind of like TIE fighters; they're just cannon-fodder for bigger ships.
It'd be nice if FDev could come up with some gameplay specifically limited to small-ships.
If you don't mind being the prey in the game, sure. I think the people who consider it mandatory are considering game balance. There are plenty missions you can take that don't require combat but could include evasion tactics. If you take pirate kill missions, especially the pirate leaders, you'll need some engineering unless you're just that good.
You can go exploring and have less that optimal jump range. It wouldn't be any different than it was since the game was initially released. You can mine void opals without engineering. You can do haulage if you know how to evade interdiction. You can haul passengers, do sightseeing missions, basically anything but combat related activities against buffed NPCs or PvP.
I don't think the low risk factor of flying cheap ships should have buffed rewards. If the ships become more expensive to own, to outfit, to replace... sure.I made a mini series of me trying to get in to small ship combat.
It ended up being a series of how not to fly an Eagle.
Small ships do need a buff, or some new variants which are significantly better.
I used to fly my Imperial Eagle in formation with the Local Authority patrols in the asteroid fields. It's fun and gives you a role in a fight.
Small ships are not meant to fight solo. No matter the skills and the equipment. They are just underpowered against anything bigger than a Viper, but in a wolf pack they become deadly.
Small ships are not meant to fight solo. No matter the skills and the equipment. They are just underpowered against anything bigger than a Viper, but in a wolf pack they become deadly.
This makes the ship more expensive in terms of time invested into the build. You'd get the engineering back of course, with the rebuy, but if you decided you didn't care for the ship you'd still be out the engineering time/mats, minus the parts you can store and actually use on something else.
Which means I agree.
The proposed change, which was not explained by FDev, would have only added a meta weapon effect everyone needed to have in PvP (not PvE, because it wasn't working there). It wouldn't have been a good change to the game.
This is a constant problem of live games being heavily modified, regardless of any grind. To me this is kind of beta version territory, but games these days get released as beta, if anything, and completed in a live environment. Loosing progress (which changing engineered modules could be seen as) in a normal released game is unacceptable in my point of view. However, if the current status of the game would benefit greatly, I wouldn't mind a change (that much), even if it is on my expense.
This is exactly what I'm saying. There are even pirate kill missions that certainly aren't high enough level to require engineering. There is plenty of combat, right up through HAZRES that doesn't really require engineering. CZs would be very hard without it, and so on. There are places in the game to do every activity without the need for engineering, so it's not mandatory. People saying this need a reality check. They want a game where the late/end game content isn't any harder than the starting content.
There are also still compelling reasons to use the ships in the game, even as a part of gameplay progression for some, and a bit of fun for others. They don't need to own at combat in the game other than being a pest, and probably shouldn't anyway.
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They can reduce the grind to a trivial level just like they did with void opals for credits. Then newbs and vets could experiment around engineering. 200 hours of grind to unlock the stagnant meta is a no go for most folks.
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I'm not at all 'gud' at combat but decided recently to 'improve' above novice (already elite exploration and now getting close to elite trade - without void opals!) so kitted out a med ship for Thargoids and a courier for 'pirate lord' missions etc.
I've gone to expert in a week (stop laughing!) and have been having fun - real fun, not being sarcastic - being killed by Thargoids a few times and annoying, occasionally killing, the 'bounty' being hunted.
Both ships I use are quite heavily engineered, so time 'invested' to make them better. Would I present a challenge to a big ship? Never, but it is fun being a little wasp occasionally
There's an inflexion point of roughly 15 secs of survivability where having a small ship will lead you to a rebuy screen and having a big ship will lead you to the main menu.
I'm all for balancing risk and reward and stuff, but let's face it... Elite Dangerous is not the DarkSoul of space sims. A more casual approach should be fine. That's what FDev choose with Void Opals anyway.
Though the weapon's require the same engineering on all size ships. Small ships require less engineering to maneuver than a medium or large ship. Unfortunately, small ships, even if fully engineered, can't take nearly the damage a medium or large ship can even when they are not fully engineered. It all boils down to choices. Everyone has their own, no two are the same. Though it will take additional time, effort and cr's, one can change their choice. Don't know what the record is, but I've got to be pretty close to being in first place when it comes to visits to Dav's Hope, Jameson Crash Site, Robigo etc etc etc.
Never mind the iEagles that boost to 900+ m/s and such. The game thankfully isn't all about head to head combat. Just saying.
Too bad there is no mission revolving around optimized speed builds.
Would be great for something like running a dignitary, confidential data, etc. past a blockade or something.
Used to love being a rares trader in my rum running Cobra in Open back before the Engineers.
CZ work really is one of the more dangerous PVE activities.
Even with the addition of thargoids and pirate zones, things can still go downhill fast in a CZ.
You can still make smalls hilariously durable, though, even if they don’t have the stats like a larger ship.
I think even an iEagle will break 2000 hull these days if you want them to (mines around 1600 or so) and still boost 550-600+ m/s.
A small, fast target like that can stick around for quite a long time, since it can break off pretty much whenever.
It just comes back to the ability to do damage, that’s still the biggest limiting factor with the smalls.
Even with the addition of thargoids and pirate zones, things can still go downhill fast in a CZ.
You can still make smalls hilariously durable, though, even if they don’t have the stats like a larger ship.
I think even an iEagle will break 2000 hull these days if you want them to (mines around 1600 or so) and still boost 550-600+ m/s.
A small, fast target like that can stick around for quite a long time, since it can break off pretty much whenever.
It just comes back to the ability to do damage, that’s still the biggest limiting factor with the smalls.