Allow use of pre 3.3 Advanced Discovery Scanner

biot

biot
In any case I didn't mean to resurrect my idea, it didn't get traction when I suggested it so it can rest in peace. I was illustrating with it my impression that this topic has some difficulty achieving a consensus between those who are pro and anti restoration in one form or another.

Burke said:
This. This is the central issue for me. I feel cheated and disparaged by it. What happened to that award winning community management?
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It is quite possible they (FD) felt they were improving the experience for their player base overall than seeking to spoil it for individuals who preferred the old way. Or at least I hope that was their motivation. Impossible to say given what they have shared with us so far.

i don't say this to trivialize your obvious sense of disappointment with the current state of affairs. But clearly FD had some reason for doing it this way and felt it was for the greater good, they just haven't communicated it.
 

Skip Rockbounder

Skip Rockbounder
Well, bringing up the system map always did vary for me according to the body quantity anyway, if there were just a handful I could spool up and study it, if it contained the aforementioned 70+ then I doubt it it would have generated the map before I left town as it were, but again that's just another curved ball of... Yes BUT.

After all very few accept that the old 'Godhonk' was perfect, far from it, many ways have been presented to tone it down a bit, Black bodies, dots, wireframe... whatver, but until you take on board or understand that it is seen a s a tool and not as a reward to those that want the 'map' back you might as well limit the amount of times a player can use it throughout a given trip.
When I say understand I don't just mean comprehend the word I mean to truly understand what it means to those who based their whole game around it... those that were here on day one but cried enough, those that are still here but are disillusioned and say the same thing over and over "it won't affect you...we just want our game back" because until it is back (in one acceptable form or another) they won't return and they sure as hell ain't spending any money with FD.
 

Laste

Laste
I Know pretty quickly after a honk if i'm staying or moving on. Honk, fss, anything interesting on graph,.....if yes scan, if not leave.
doing it in vr and, hotas is mapped out. the actual planet scan is nice now that we send a probe down, never understood how we got the side away from us.
I'm in Sagittarius a in a pre engineer asp, so i got nothing but time.
 

Riverside

Riverside
biot said:
In any case I didn't mean to resurrect my idea, it didn't get traction when I suggested it so it can rest in peace. I was illustrating with it my impression that this topic has some difficulty achieving a consensus between those who are pro and anti restoration in one form or another.



It is quite possible they (FD) felt they were improving the experience for their player base overall than seeking to spoil it for individuals who preferred the old way. Or at least I hope that was their motivation. Impossible to say given what they have shared with us so far.

i don't say this to trivialize your obvious sense of disappointment with the current state of affairs. But clearly FD had some reason for doing it this way and felt it was for the greater good, they just haven't communicated it.
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I agree with your thoughts on FDevs approach. They just overlooked one bit, and fixing it is really simple. So simple I was expecting it to be done in the 3.3.01 patch. They do organise good parties though.
 

Skip Rockbounder

Skip Rockbounder
ThatSmileyGuy said:
Now that i think of it it is backed up by logic. However the key aspect of this request is to facilitate going on a longer trip whilst not spending too much time in systems one would not consider worthy spendin time in.
Maybe the system mapper if reintroduced should take some time, but not too much, more like scaled with system size. But that would need to take maximum up to the time it used to take to jump in, scoop and charge the drive to allow a glance at the system map and a decision. So maybe up to 45 seconds to a minute?
FSS also has this disadvantage that You can't charge FSD while scanning.
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That would be a completely unsatisfactory way of doing things... the honk for the FSS takes but a few seconds, that means the the honk has discovered what is there and would hold back that information because the ADS is fitted instead of the FSS... that would be unreasonable
 

Ziggy Stardust

Ziggy Stardust
Sterling MH said:
If the ADS were exploration, care to explain to me what explorers are doing now the ADS is gone?
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You fail at logic mate.

There can be more than one way to explore. Exploring is nothing more than investigating the unknown for discoveries. This can be done using FSS, ADS, audio and visual observations, looking at the galmap , driving around in your SRV.

Now you back up your claim. The claim was: Using the ADS isn't exploring.
 
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Enderby

E
Quite happy for honk to reveal all bodies on the map but their pictures only. No data beyond that. No 'discovery' logged.
If I want to investigate further then I can FSS the heck out of things or fly close enough for the autoscan.
That would be fine.

Edit: Oh, no data apart from "unexplored" and the distance listed on the nav panel too of course!! :D
 
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Burke

B
Enderby said:
Quite happy for honk to reveal all bodies on the map but their pictures only. No data beyond that. No 'discovery' logged.
If I want to investigate further then I can FSS the heck out of things or fly close enough for the autoscan.
That would be fine.
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Fine with me. Give the landable icon aswell and ill be happy.
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
biot said:
I've always felt it was bonkers that the ADS could analyze and model a system of 70+ bodies in the same amount of time to model a system with a single body.
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It's been so long that I forget - did the ADS analyze and fully model the system? I thought we had to actually travel to each planet and scan it with the DSS to get details about it. I'm almost sure that's the case, as I had to memorize those HUD icons to recognize ELWs and AWs. All the ADS did was fill the system map with little pictures and gave us something to click on so we knew which way to point our ships. Unless I'm remembering it all wrong...
 

MadDogMurdock

MadDogMurdock
ThatSmileyGuy said:
I believe the only numerical values were related to orbit. Not even gravity was available on initial honk.
Scanning bodies with ADS gave information on volcanism, composition and such.
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The ADS didn't actually give you any firm knowledge about the bodies themselves, what it gave you was the system layout and body locations.
You needed to DSS scan the bodies to actually find out what they were, their compositions, etc.

However, the images used in the system map enabled you to learn fairly quickly what body types they were.
So, with a little practice, you could very quickly assess whether there was an ELW, or WW, although even after much use I would still get it wrong now and then.

The FSS now tells you with absolute certainty what body types are in the system, but requires you to 'discover' where they are.
So unless you are solely interested in body types, the FSS does not facilitate any quick assessment of whether the system has any other interesting qualities.

The sole thing that the restoration of the ADS would provide is body location, enabling those who don't enjoy the FSS camera game to avoid it.
To get the absolute knowledge that the FSS provides about a particular body would require you to either use it or to travel to that body the old fashioned way.

The main issue is assessing whether a system as a whole is interesting - that now requires FSS resolution of every body in the system, at which point you have discovered everything that would have previously required you to actually fly around the system, discovering as you go.
 

Ziggy Stardust

Ziggy Stardust
biot said:
I've always felt it was bonkers that the ADS could analyze and model a system of 70+ bodies in the same amount of time to model a system with a single body. I don't think it is accidental that it was called the "God honk".
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The ADS was called the God Honk because of it's infinite range. You know, like the FSS has. Other DSses weren't called God Honks, eventhough they too could analyse 1 body as fast as 70.
If you have issues with analysing those different numbers in the same amount of time, imagine one body costs the ADS 0.7 milliseconds. Each body there after also costs 0.7 milliseconds. So for mere human brains that may seem like the same time, but computers are a bit faster.
Alternatively, the ADS created a snap shot of the system, and would always analyze all of it, including checking empty space in order to determine it's empty space. That way the ADS always had the same task to do every system, no matter how many bodies.
 

Enderby

E
There's been quite a lot of posts about the FSS lately.

I am sure that FD are currently looking at ways to placate people in this respect.

It would be silly for them to stick their heads in the sand and ignore the criticisms just, say, because they spent a lot of time developing it - and it has ultimately gone down like a lead balloon for a lot of players.

They are reasonable people and are probably mulling over this very issue right now.

Well, maybe not right now, but generally nowish.
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
Burke said:
Think how many bugs would cease to be a problem if there was some alternative to the FSS :)
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See, this is where you are wrong. That's like saying a bug in turreted burst lasers "would cease to be a problem" if Frontier brought back no-boost Drag Munitions. Bringing back the ADS doesn't fix the FSS, so quit this nonsense.
 

Faded Glory

Faded Glory
DrewCarnegie said:
There's always pushback against further penalties to a restored ADS (beyond weight and power consumption) because they usually don't have any reason for existing - they're simply there so that people who like the FSS can feel that their system is 'the bestest'. As I said, I don't recall the details of your post so I'm not accusing you of this. I see a delayed response from distant bodies making sense for a lore/science perspective, whilst not interfering significantly with the gameplay. I'd actually say the FSS should work that way too :D
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I think the desire for any restored ADS to have restrictions or penalties is very bizarre.

I can see no compelling reason why an ADS should be range limited when the FSS is not, nor why it should give out more ambiguous information than the FSS does (and honestly, in my experience the FSS is less ambiguous than the ADS ever was). The reason people are asking for an ADS is not because the ADS would be better than the FSS for what they are trying to do but because the FSS simply doesn't accommodate the particular gameplay that they want to do.

Putting a dead time delay in would frankly be perverse when one of the driving factors behind the FSS was to speed up exploration. The idea that anybody would get a speed advantage from an ADS is pretty much nonsense (unless you never actually stopped to scan anything).
 

Skip Rockbounder

Skip Rockbounder
picommander said:
Oh well, the joy of getting older with your eyesight getting worse while everything outside is shrinking. I already can't use smartphones without 2.0 reading specs, need good light and strong colors for reading and then that. Doesn't bother you now of course, but your time will come. Mark my words...
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My hearing started to play up 20 years ago, and I have different glasses for reading than for the PC screen, that means I have to lean backwards for the keys or forwards for the screen when typing, (I have X2 also... but X 2.5 - X3 for reading the ruddy small print on labels) Yes I know all too well that...
Getting old ain't for wimps
 
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