Player Agency & Wasted time at the Interstellar initiative

[Ouberos]

Tier1 will be reached before the weekend is over.

And they probably learned something from the previous attempts at locking down the systems that are helding a CG.

Edit: and there are more that 300 contributors upto now - it would had been pathetic if a single commander would had managed to ruin it.

Who said I was on my own?

Also, that sort of thing happens in this game, havent you heard?

Another thing to consider is that your efforts in this CG are also most likely going to be god modded. If there isnt the result that is required they will literally just change the result. So again, I refer you to my NPC comment. YOU have no agency in your game.

YOU ARE AN NPC IN THEIR GAME.

 

[graeme.firth]

Unlucky Ouberus.

There were no missions available from Zende partners to counter your changes. So seems pretty fair to me, you’re welcome start with the rest of us

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
Another way would have been to not give me a week with nothing better to do.

It does highlight perfectly the need to reorganise the way these things are designed and maybe even to let players lead the story. Imagine if the superpowers actually responded to BGS mechanics.

There are so many things in this game in need of adjustments, and I'm not sure if everybody would agree on the direction of those adjustments.

If the superpowers get involved and actually responded to the BGS the way superpowers would/should react it would completely eliminate any form of player influence in the galaxy. The exact opposite of player agency.

And btw - are you sure that it was "god modding" and not a lot of players handing in bounties as part of the bounty hunting CG? Not sure when the tick currently is and when the CG started.
If the CG started before the tick, then the CG players could very easily wash away any progress you made. That's the core aspect of the BGS - numbers win.

 

[Ouberos]

There are so many things in this game in need of adjustments, and I'm not sure if everybody would agree on the direction of those adjustments.

If the superpowers get involved and actually responded to the BGS the way superpowers would/should react it would completely eliminate any form of player influence in the galaxy. The exact opposite of player agency.

And btw - are you sure that it was "god modding" and not a lot of players handing in bounties as part of the bounty hunting CG? Not sure when the tick currently is and when the CG started.
If the CG started before the tick, then the CG players could very easily wash away any progress you made. That's the core aspect of the BGS - numbers win.

I know what you are saying but at one point Zende partners went from 81% ish and should have been Lockdown pending to this.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

I think expecting it to have gone any differently is an atrocious misunderstanding of how FDev works.

What makes the story that this one guy wanted to tell any more important than the story FDev wanted to tell? Or that anyone else would have wanted to tell?

I'm not saying I think he did anything wrong, or that it would have been wrong. Just don't be indignant about it, because that makes you look like you felt entitled to tell the story your way.

And anyway the writing really was on the wall as soon as they hyped up piracy as a big way to take part of the initiative, but then placed the factions into that system with a security level that was anything besides Anarchy...

The stuff players develop should be embraced and encouraged, full stop.

 

[Ouberos]

I am open to an explanation for that BGS result other than the hand of Mod.

 

[Florenus]

The stuff players develop should be embraced and encouraged, full stop.

Only to some extent.
Players would turn this game world into stinky mess in no time.

 

[Rainbro]

There are so many things in this game in need of adjustments, and I'm not sure if everybody would agree on the direction of those adjustments.

If the superpowers get involved and actually responded to the BGS the way superpowers would/should react it would completely eliminate any form of player influence in the galaxy. The exact opposite of player agency.

And btw - are you sure that it was "god modding" and not a lot of players handing in bounties as part of the bounty hunting CG? Not sure when the tick currently is and when the CG started.
If the CG started before the tick, then the CG players could very easily wash away any progress you made. That's the core aspect of the BGS - numbers win.

A fair assumption, but we know it was not player action for three main reasons:
1) The influence change and security reset occurred during the server downtime. This alone is enough to show it was a manual change, as the BGS is only updated once a day at 4pm in game time.
2) System status did not display an upwards arrow next to security after the change, as it would have had it been raised organically.
3) Faction influence cannot naturally fall below 1% due to player action. Overzealous manual adjustment by Frontier.

 

[Northpin]

Well, as it has been pointed out already, i think it may had not been designed to fail.
Sorry you wasted your time.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

The main problem I see with "player agency" against CGs is, that there is simply no functioning gameplay loops to allow this in a way that is not extremely one sided.
The way lockdown and CGs work is simply not compatible. Without "god modding" the CGs would simply not work, allowing very few players to dictate the gameplay for a lot of players.

There's a trivial way - without "god modding" - to prevent lockdowns at a trade CG: add a bounty hunting CG alongside it. People handing in bounties for that will naturally add a lot of upward security pressure, and keep the security state stable.

A slightly less trivial way - one which requires "player agency" rather than Frontier railroading players to do it anyway - is for players to pretend there's a bounty hunting CG on even when there isn't. (The last Colonia trade CG did not have an accompanying bounty CG, so a few of us did a bit of quiet BGS manipulation to ensure that a Lockdown could not occur until after it was over, in between trade runs)

There's also a way for players to complete a trade CG even if there's a Lockdown on, which for a CG like this one with relatively low cargo amounts is fairly straightforward (it would be incredibly unpleasant in a Cutter-full bulk CG). Lockdown doesn't close the black market, so two players collect some guardian materials each, then jettison (not abandon) it for the other player to pick up. They would then hand the (now officially stolen) materials into the black market, where they contribute towards the CG. This would also add more "community" to the "community goal" if players were cooperating to achieve it rather than just relogging in Solo to maximise collections. Or you could just steal the Guardian materials from the relevant sites.

Lockdowns - and especially not potential Lockdowns - are not a "that's it, everyone go home".

I know what you are saying but at one point Zende partners went from 81% ish and should have been Lockdown pending to this.

That looks more like a bug than anything else, since it shouldn't be possible for a faction to be on <1% influence but still be a normal faction.

I'm guessing maybe related to the megaships jumping around - this I think is the first (pair of) jumping dockable megaships to be owned by a faction which also has other assets, their first attempt to actually do the jump this morning actually failed, and Zende Partners are having similar influence-related weirdness in the endpoint at Zende as well where there'd be no need to clear a lockdown ... but the intermediate station in Wregoe which doesn't have a megaship is fine.

If you look at the Inara graph - https://inara.cz/galaxy-starsystem/141310/ - you can see the values flickering between normal and abnormal over the last few hours, which looks like it may be a propagation issue across the various servers. They seem to be finally stabilising at "normal" now.

 

[Ouberos]

Well, as it has been pointed out already, i think it may had not been designed to fail.
Sorry you wasted your time.

Twas my time to waste.
Currently trying to negotiate the support ticket site. Whew, now that is entertaining.

Did you know they have a place you can raise a ticket to say that you can't raise a ticket?

But first you have to log into the game and get a secret number.

You guys!

 

[Northpin]

That looks more like a bug than anything else, since it shouldn't be possible for a faction to be on <1% influence but still be a normal faction.

I'm guessing maybe related to the megaships jumping around - this I think is the first (pair of) jumping dockable megaships to be owned by a faction which also has other assets, their first attempt to actually do the jump this morning actually failed, and Zende Partners are having similar influence-related weirdness in the endpoint at Zende as well where there'd be no need to clear a lockdown ... but the intermediate station in Wregoe which doesn't have a megaship is fine.

If you look at the Inara graph - https://inara.cz/galaxy-starsystem/141310/ - you can see the values flickering between normal and abnormal over the last few hours, which looks like it may be a propagation issue across the various servers. They seem to be finally stabilising at "normal" now.

So it may had not been any god modding involved?
I know i handed a lot of bounties at The Prospect and probably some ohers did it as well, but i didn't watch the influence % at all

 

[Unknown Zombie]

I know what you are saying but at one point Zende partners went from 81% ish and should have been Lockdown pending to this.

Wait a sec, Sengen owns the system now? Didn't Zende own it prior to the reset this morning?

The entire state of the system must have been manually edited, rather than just reverting negative influence you were making.

Unless I remembered wrong.

What was the point of them suddenly giving the system over to Sengen?

 

[Bryan K]

The stuff players develop should be embraced and encouraged, full stop.

Most of what players develop is pure garbage, though. I don’t want to play their garbage, I want to play the game FDev made.

 

[Rainbro]

Wait a sec, Sengen owns the system now? Didn't Zende own it prior to the reset this morning?

The entire state of the system must have been manually edited, rather than just reverting negative influence you were making.

Unless I remembered wrong.

What was the point of them suddenly giving the system over to Sengen?

They don't own it. While the initial change during downtime brought influence to 100%, that change would not be processed by the game until the normal BGS tick at 4pm. When that tick occurred, if Segnen maintained influence above 60%, a coup war would be triggered for control of the system. This did not happen, as Segnen fell to just below 60% to prevent this. Whether of not this was another edit is much harder to determine, and is entirely based on where the influence gain cap would lie for that specific system.

 

[Ouberos]

Most of what players develop is pure garbage, though. I don’t want to play their garbage, I want to play the game FDev made.

Despite how much I dislike the arrogance of your sig I feel pity for your ignorance.

Also, FD's game involves doing literally nothing while events unfold around you. That is not gameplay. You are confused.

 

[Rainbro]

So it may had not been any god modding involved?
I know i handed a lot of bounties at The Prospect and probably some ohers did it as well, but i didn't watch the influence % at all

No amount of bounties can bring a faction to below 1%. Also, remember that it was Zende who lost their influence; they'd be the ones to benefit from bounties.

 

[Unknown Zombie]

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

There's a trivial way - without "god modding" - to prevent lockdowns at a trade CG: add a bounty hunting CG alongside it. People handing in bounties for that will naturally add a lot of upward security pressure, and keep the security state stable.

The bounty hunting CG would have to start before the other CG. Making it a two week CG for a one week trade CG or FDev would have to stop using the "galaxy Thursday".
And then players would complain about railroading the CGs and giving CGs a fixed result

…
Lockdowns - and especially not potential Lockdowns - are not a "that's it, everyone go home".

Lockdowns are, in my opinion, the worst element of the BGS. They make absolutely no sense (again in my opinion). Add CGs and the whole mess makes absolutely no sense at all (to me). Add the way NPC killing influences the BGS and the disparity to the counter to that ("what is a transaction") and the result is simply bad gameplay (I think I have to add an other "in my opinion" here - so there it is ).
But that's a different topic and something FDev will probably never entirely change.

That said, you are right. Lockdowns are not the end of the CG.
I don't think that "lockdown equals game over for the CG" is the problem. In my opinion the problem is that the resulting gameplay and the way it is achieved is not very entertaining.

It would be nice if FDev came up with a solution for the lockdown-CG issue that is not "god modding". Not sure if that's possible in a way that fits everybody.

And btw: thanks for the long and good reply to my posting.

 

[Northpin]

No amount of bounties can bring a faction to below 1%. Also, remember that it was Zende who lost their influence; they'd be the ones to benefit from bounties.

I'm talking about the inara graphs posted by Ian Doncaster upto 16th of May, before the stats started to go crazy.
The influence showed little variation, for Zende that was between 80 and 85% for the entire week then in 2 hours there were a lot of hiccups and twists