Player Agency & Wasted time at the Interstellar initiative

[Ouberos]

View attachment 131791

Nurse! The CG is flatlining and in danger of being overcome by a serious case of independent gameplay!

I'm going to try and restart it!

CLEAR!

Massive Mod shock

Hooray! The Lockdown has gone, but Oh my god! Segnen are in charge!

CLEAR!

Massive Mod shock

Audience flat lines.

 

[Jmanis]

I remember when me and a few other people UA-bombed Jacques. You know what FD did?
They didn't god-hand what was going on. They leaned into it.

They made it part of the narrative when Jacques misjumped, they had local galnet articles aboard about it. Jacques was probably going to misjump anyway, but the agility FD showed in response to that was great.

Anyone claiming Ouberos "shouldn't have been doing this" or was just "raining on the parade'"has little understanding of how the game works and what tools FD have at their disposal. FD god-handing to revert player activity is not "working as intended"... that's failure to plan by FD.

If Ouberos was going "against FD's will"... guess what? FD have mechanics to enforce that, by making Zende Partners a non-BGS factional entity, much like Children of Tothos and Pilot's Federation Local Branch. These are entities which can control assets and provide station services[1], without being subject to the effects of the BGS. This is what should have happened. Failing that, as Ian Doncaster said, couple a bounty hunt objective with it, that will very quickly right any negative security effects.

It's kinda hilarious to read people complaining "One person shouldn't be able to ruin things for a larger group"... meanwhile if you turn the corner to the BGS forums, there's also discussions touching on how it's "unfair that solo players can't get a foothold with large groups around". Which one is it? Or is it just laziness?

Bad luck Ouberos... FD dropped the ball yet again here.

[1] Though in the case of Children of Tothos, station was in lockdown, but that was likely hard-set.

 

[Rainbro]

I'm talking about the inara graphs posted by Ian Doncaster upto 16th of May, before the stats started to go crazy.
The influence showed little variation, for Zende that was between 80 and 85% for the entire week then in 2 hours there were a lot of hiccups and twists

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. The fluctuations are likely due to some tools reporting cached data, hence why it flickers between the original and altered value as multiple players submit conflicting reports.

Influence was mostly stable, but this is not related to security. It was likely stable due to a near-stalemate between people arriving and selling exploration data, and our own efforts to destroy police NPCs. Security continued to drop as there were insufficient bounties being handed in, and explo data boosts economy+influence, not security+influence.

 

[Bryan K]

Despite how much I dislike the arrogance of your sig I feel pity for your ignorance.

Also, FD's game involves doing literally nothing while events unfold around you. That is not gameplay. You are confused.

And yet I’ve enjoyed it for a good 1300 hours so far. Never knew nothing was so enjoyable.

 

[EUS]

The darlings of the game are always touted as such:

400B+ stars to explore,
and the BGS

If FD has to step in and manually adjust the BGS to fit their narrative, then no, the game that FD made is not being played, nor is it working as intended.
Truth be told, the BGS has been a mess for a while now, and no one knows if it's even working anymore, not even FD.
Any PP leader get bumped out of PP yet?

 

[Captain Willard]

Good work FD.

 

[Jmanis]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. The fluctuations are likely due to some tools reporting cached data, hence why it flickers between the original and altered value as multiple players submit conflicting reports.

Gotta disagree mate...

Influence in the Synuefe system has changed just as rapidly overnight: Gold = Zende, Red = Synuefe, Grey

A swing of 40% is practically unheard of, especially in these days of the BGS. I visited the Synuefe system beforehand and it was at 80-odd %, and there was barely any way to mitigate that beyond murderhoboing; no missions, nothing.

Of note is the influence levels in the Synuefe system:

Zende Partners were again on 80%, but now Segnen Exchange is above Zende. The "smoking barrel" is that all assets are controlled by Zende Partners. Under current BGS mechanics, this is impossible without triggering a war. Further reinforcing this is the fact the Wregoe system, where there are no assets relevant to the current II phase, is unaffected. Considering that Zende are meant to be "the ruling mob" til Segnen kicks off, this looks entirely unintentional and contrary to the narrative FD are currently putting out, so this is probably a side-effect of the issues they had switching the ships around. I'd bugreport, but literally going to work.

 

[Rainbro]

Gotta disagree mate...

Influence in the Synuefe system has changed just as rapidly overnight: Gold = Zende, Red = Synuefe, Grey

View attachment 131795

A swing of 40% is practically unheard of, especially in these days of the BGS. I visited the Synuefe system beforehand and it was at 80-odd %, and there was barely any way to mitigate that beyond murderhoboing; no missions, nothing.

Of note is the influence levels in the Synuefe system:

View attachment 131796

Zende Partners were again on 80%, but now Segnen Exchange is above Zende. The "smoking barrel" is that all assets are controlled by Zende Partners. Under current BGS mechanics, this is impossible without triggering a war. Further reinforcing this is the fact the Wregoe system, where there are no assets relevant to the current II phase, is unaffected. Considering that Zende are meant to be "the ruling mob" til Segnen kicks off, this looks entirely unintentional and contrary to the narrative FD are currently putting out, so this is probably a side-effect of the issues they had switching the ships around. I'd bugreport, but literally going to work.

I was referring to the part of the inara graph where the influence appears to rapidly fluctuate between two values, I'm not saying the significant BGS shifts didn't happen.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

With all the god modding talk. Isn't the existence of Segnen already god modding?

Zende Partners build an outpost in an empty system.
Why is there an other faction from the start?
Why would they allow anybody else on their facilities?
In-game it makes no sense at all.

Yes, FDev wants to use the other faction for the next stage of the intergalactic initiative. Just an other toy placed prematurely into the sandbox for players to play with and giving them the impression of "player agency"

Or just an other addition to the list:
Voting for 5 virtually identical systems.
Waiting one week.
Ferries not jumping.
CG only requiring commodities and not materials making all the USS completely pointless.
Faction added to the system prematurely.

This is FDev!
kicks plot into a well

 

[Chaparral]

So if this god modding thing is just business as usual, can't they please just spam the full spectrum of mission types at every station and let my commanders be whatever careers they want to be? I do feel bad for the OP and Jmanis playing within the rules and getting snubbed.

 

[Jmanis]

With all the god modding talk. Isn't the existence of Segnen already god modding?

Zende Partners build an outpost in an empty system.
...

Or just an other addition to the list:
Voting for 5 virtually identical systems.
Waiting one week.
Ferries not jumping.
CG only requiring commodities and not materials making all the USS completely pointless.
Faction added to the system prematurely.

Short version for your question at the start; not really.

Because of the way the BGS works, a single system cannot have just one faction in it, otherwise they will enter a state of permanent expansion. That's just a hard limit of the BGS.

The other point is that most of the things you cite as "god modding" are things which are entirely unachievable by players. FD have to have some control over the game universe in order to create content. I have no problem with FD doing things which no player, given infinite resources, simply could not achieve, such as creating stations, populating empty systems and jumping ships around.

But FD waving the hand in a way which undoes player effort is never a good thing.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…FD have to have some control over the game universe in order to create content. …

But FD waving the hand in a way which undoes player effort is never a good thing.

That's the core of the problem, isn't it?
At what point does "creating content" ends and "undoing player effort" starts. The game has limitations, nothing wrong with that, FDev can't design a simulation of an entire galaxy and trillions of people in it.
Looking at it from a different point of view, if players know about the limitations of the game and know that FDev somehow has to add content - at what point stops "player effort" being emergent gameplay and starts being just abusing those limitations?

Yes, FDev waving hand to undo player actions is a bad thing, but it is in some cases a necessity - if you want for the "greater good" (now I want to kill some Tau).

What I would like to see is FDev addressing those limitations in a way that doesn't require them to "god mod" just to keep the game/plot running.
Like you and Ouberos I would love to see a galaxy that doesn't require "god modding" to work, that respects player activity and that allows players to influence it in some shape and form.

Going back to "knowing the limitations" - I guess that's what annoyed some of the commenters in this thread. How can any long time player be surprised that FDev "fixes" things that are the result of those limitations?
Using the knowledge of those limitations, using them for their own advantage and then complain about FDev reversing the results is, sorry to say that, simply poor style.

 

[Captain Willard]

Except it was a good thing and the right thing to do. To bad. So sad.

 

[Stealthie]

So, let's see....

• A whole bunch of people spend all week collecting Guardian stuff in an attempt to gain an advantage during this week's CG.
• OP comes along and thinks it'd be fun to put the CG delivery station into lockdown and, thus, render all the stuff the bunch of people did a waste of time.
• FDev comes along and decides that it probably wouldn't be good optics if the first CG in months was screw-up so they tweak stuff and render what the OP spent all week doing a waste of time.

Let me see if I can find a way to properly express my feelings...

Spoiler

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

+1 frontier shouldn't have cheated.

Player interference isn't victimising any individual player who may be helpless or be choosing to, its via the systems and can be undone.. so the "optics" would have been people are playing the game and getting into it.

A little confidence frontier. Every time this has happened in the past many multiples of the people upsetting it rush in and save the day, and feel really good about themselves for doing so. This time is not like the others? Every other? Players are here who's steering the ship?

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Most of what players develop is pure garbage, though. I don’t want to play their garbage, I want to play the game FDev made.

Godmodded garbage, you mean?

 

[Challenge]

I am conflicted on this. On one hand undoing the hard work of a single actor with a sweep of the GodModWand is something that should be limited at the least. A more creative approach is perhaps warranted, but being busy preparing for the CG could have led to missing the signs that something damaging to the plot was under way. This case was, I would think, not well advertised by the OP before he set out to undo all FDev's hard work setting up the challenge. Which brings me to ...

On the other hand...

The race was announced along with the start time and location. During the course of the week, as the officials were setting out the course and necessary logistics, a single runner was out trotting along the course's route. On the day of the race, just before the starting gun sounded, the early runner stepped up to the finish line proclaiming a win. Having started before the race actually began is it any wonder the results were disqualified and the race set off as planned for everyone else?

I think Ouberos should be proud of what he single-handedly accomplished. Being able to knock a system from stable high sec down to near lock down in a week is a challenge worthy of note. I would not expect the race officials to let the results stand, however, simply because it would ruin the plan they had and the expectations of the CG participants.

 

[DNA-Decay]

Player agency is way cool.

For years Frontier had a notice on the CG boiler plate text that - “This CG May be affected by BGS states and market availability.”

Meaning “This CG can be affected by the actions of CMDRs”

It was their caveat. Their choice.

But now, they god-mod it.

Always worth a try, though. AEDC spent two and a half years expanding a faction across 70 light years to have a crack at putting an Alliance faction into Sol.
We got an expansion that should have gone in, but Frontier god-modded it out.

I sort of don’t mind when it’s rockstar devs with investment in plot and story, like Michael Brookes, but these days it’s just seems like the same lore-naive writers that are running the GalNet plot. “Don’t let the players touch our plot.”

Personally if Ouroboros had been successful it would have been the equivalent of the Gnosis debacle, but with Frontier on the receiving end of the switcheroo.

 

[Alwayslate]

OP → manipulates the BGS →harmless PVEr
FDev → wasted his time and effort → griefer

And people mocked at the face of the former. Lmfao. Quit double standard, people.

 

[Guest193293]

I would say as other said already, that Frontier has a narrative and apparently want to keep it. But also I just read this, did they actually revealed the entire story ?
I think it would have been interesting to see the chaos of the Initiative being compromised, something like that...I can already imagine other players and NPC's going ape too and trying to counter what Ouberos and others did.