Reclaim lost scan / mapping data

[Darakas]

Ok so I know its my fault. I’m not arguing that. When you’re 2.27km above the ancient ruins site on ETA Carina sector el-y D16 having taken screen shot and you hit boost by mistake while reaching for thruster control the inevitable impact is going to hurt you a lot. Well kill you a lot actually. Ship gone. Big Boom.
Like I say my fault but for a one of us “casual” player types with less gaming time that we’d like (damn this having to work for a living thing!) this represents several months of real time black investigation. Lots of new system, many mapped planets, Geo and bio sites visited. All gone.
Somewhere out there on ETA Carnia sector el-Y D16 is a crashed anaconda. My Anaconda Would it be possible that that wreck could actually be there? For perhaps a couple of months? I full accept that there has to be a penalty for death, especially stupid self-inflicted death, but if I could work my way back out there. If I could fine my wreck would it be too difficult to assume I could find and scan the data core of my old ship and retrieve my own data. I’d still have to revisit the site and within a sensible time scale.
For others if they find the wreck they get at least some “Encoded Data” and if there was any cargo that would be up for grabs like any other crash site but if the original data owner makes it back they can scan and decrypt their own data. Get back the scan and maps they did? Either that or in these days of high end communication be able to send data home every now and again ,possibly even no more than once per game week, even if there is a cost for a “Deep telemetry transmission network”? Just to give some method of recovery or protection of those long deep dark voyages.

 

[Noobilite]

One way is to have a black box with either all or limited amounts of data. The problem, if it is one, is that this could lead to a form of piracy making exploration much more dangerous. But yea they could leave black boxes to find and corpses etc. Could limit the pain. You could even buy expensive computers to hold the data and increase data storage. We already have data caches as finds. I'm surprised they didn't implement it.

 

[Lestat]

Next time turn in your data more often. There's station in most Nebulas. With the right build. You can get to Sol to Colonia in 107 Jumps so getting anywhere should not be an issue.

If this feature is added. Can we be able to Retrieve the Bounties I collected while in combat and died? Or collect the Cargo that I lost.

 

[Noobilite]

It would be logical to be able to do so.

They could add features where the nature of the crash has varying effects on what is recoverable based on damage. Some things could be more vulnerable based on their suppose makeup. Like glass containers. Assuming packaging materials of course. This could open up more expensive packaging at a higher premium price to make up for things like explosives ora ttacks. In fact they could add attacks having more or less damage to cargo based on varying things and effect your cargo. Bumping into things could have a much higher impact on cargo safety etc. Could make piracy more interesting too. And add a reason to have more stuff in game to counter the issues with it.

 

[Lestat]

Let take Exploration data. If you are able to collect a huge amount of data you could give it to your friend. By crashing into a Moon. Then have your friend pick it up.

 

[Noobilite]

Yea, you could. But you cold also have the damage cause harm and loose data. But then you could also give the ability to drop off or give the black box away or the computer storage away. That could be interesting in many ways. Then you could also implement dummy computers to drop off in case of piracy. And if they ever added trade that could get really dirty. 8)

 

[Lestat]

Yea, you could. But you cold also have the damage cause harm and loose data. But then you could also give the ability to drop off or give the black box away or the computer storage away. That could be interesting in many ways. Then you could also implement dummy computers to drop off in case of piracy. And if they ever added trade that could get really dirty. 8)

Yes great idea for GOLD SELLERS.

 

[Darakas]

Let take Exploration data. If you are able to collect a huge amount of data you could give it to your friend. By crashing into a Moon. Then have your friend pick it up.

My thinking was that data would be encrypted to the commander. So although some other player finding the wreck may get something from it they wouldn’t get your cache. The game is very good at not allowing Exploitation to “help” others, I wouldn’t want to change that. Your data your encryption. Cargo well possibly but surface collection of cargo with a SRV with 2 units a time would be even more laborious than a friend dropping cargo in space and you hoovering up with scoop. Defiantly not looking to inject any exploit that introduces Gold sellers. Data scan for all data collected limited to the owner only

 

[Lestat]

My thinking was that data would be encrypted to the commander. So although some other player finding the wreck may get something from it they wouldn’t get your cache. The game is very good at not allowing Exploitation to “help” others, I wouldn’t want to change that. Your data your encryption. Cargo well possibly but surface collection of cargo with a SRV with 2 units a time would be even more laborious than a friend dropping cargo in space and you hoovering up with scoop. Defiantly not looking to inject any exploit that introduces Gold sellers. Data scan for all data collected limited to the owner only

So you want Exploration with no risk. Still not a good idea. The Op made a stupid mistake. You can avoid this risk if you fly to the nearest station and sell your exploration data. Just like Bounty Hunters sell their data every few hours to avoid losing Millions of credits.

 

[Noobilite]

If they add encrtyption they could add a part of the game to try to decrypt it. If not in time it destroyes itself or something. Or so many tries etc. You could be made to do this yourself also. But you would have access to the code to recover. Then if they know who you are could come after you to get the code.

 

[Darakas]

So you want Exploration with no risk. Still not a good idea. The Op made a stupid mistake. You can avoid this risk if you fly to the nearest station and sell your exploration data. Just like Bounty Hunters sell their data every few hours to avoid losing Millions of credits.

Not disagreeing was my fault but with jump of around 35ly on my ship nearest station in bubble from eta Carina is around 250 jumps. Not something you can do every few hours.

 

[Lestat]

Not disagreeing was my fault but with jump of around 45ly on my ship nearest station in bubble from eta Carina is around 250 jumps. Not something you can do every few hours.

Thing is you did not go far. I had that oh no I lost my exploration data moment. It hurt badly. My First travel I did 400 Jumps. Broke my Window. AMRU did not repair them at that time and we could not resupply air. I also play Iron man mode. So when that Happen and 15 Minutes of air left. I knew I was dead. So I restarted my whole game. But I learn my lesson. Longest travel afterwards was 2 years. I had 6,000 full systems scanned 17ly Jump range.

Just please take your time. Exploration easy if you pay attention. If your Boost Button in an area on your keyboard mouse or Joystick that you has a risk hitting and it gets you killed move it to a new location. Until you get back to the bubble.

 

[Kissamies]

I think this is an idea has some potential merit in generating new gameplay. You get killed and the game generates a wreck POI. Then you automatically get mission that gives you the mission and coordinates to get to the wreck and pick up the survey data cache. If you turn that in, you get the data back. However, the data degrades, losing random system data every day it's sitting out there. Also, anyone else can chanche upon it and pick it up and the mission fails if that happens. Maybe those other players wouldn't get to claim the discoveries, but the catche would still be worth something to them when turned out on Black market/Search and rescue.

That's my basic suggestion anyway. Might need some tweaking, but I think it has some potential. One problem I foresee is that it might get pretty spammy generationg wreckage sites every time someone with even a little bit of exploration data dies.

 

[nanite2000]

So you want Exploration with no risk. Still not a good idea. The Op made a stupid mistake. You can avoid this risk if you fly to the nearest station and sell your exploration data. Just like Bounty Hunters sell their data every few hours to avoid losing Millions of credits.

Next time turn in your data more often. There's station in most Nebulas. With the right build. You can get to Sol to Colonia in 107 Jumps so getting anywhere should not be an issue.

As usual, you've missed the point.

The thing about exploration is that, when exploring, you tend to spend most of your time in uninhabited parts of the galaxy. And the thing about places that are uninhabited - probably the most obvious thing about them - is that they're uninhabited. And uninhabited places tend to have no people in them. And when there's no people, there also no space stations, let alone space stations where you can sell Cartographic Data.

Besides, gameplay could easily be added for information retrieval by time-limiting the availability of the cartographic data. It could be that you have to retrieve it within a certain period of time (e.g. 48 hours). Or, maybe the longer you leave it, the more it degrades, and the less value (and data) it contains.

So you want Exploration with no risk. Still not a good idea. The Op made a stupid mistake. You can avoid this risk if you fly to the nearest station and sell your exploration data. Just like Bounty Hunters sell their data every few hours to avoid losing Millions of credits.

Bounty Hunting, combat, and trading all take place in populated space with plenty of space stations within just a few minutes travel. Game-play loops are a lot shorter, and opportunities to 'save' your progress are much more frequent. Ship loss is not such a big deal under such circumstances since comparatively little time has passed between 'save' points.

Explorers can be out for months and so the lost time, more so than the lost credits, is comparatively huge.

Let take Exploration data. If you are able to collect a huge amount of data you could give it to your friend. By crashing into a Moon. Then have your friend pick it up.

Any concerns about gold digging could easily be rectified by simply having stations not pay you for stolen data (or only pay you a fraction of it's value). That way you can keep the cartographic data, but you wouldn't gain any real financial reward for it.

 

[Lestat]

I think this is an idea has some potential merit in generating new gameplay. You get killed and the game generates a wreck POI. Then you automatically get mission that gives you the mission and coordinates to get to the wreck and pick up the survey data cache. If you turn that in, you get the data back. However, the data degrades, losing random system data every day it's sitting out there. Also, anyone else can chanche upon it and pick it up and the mission fails if that happens. Maybe those other players wouldn't get to claim the discoveries, but the catche would still be worth something to them when turned out on Black market/Search and rescue.

That's my basic suggestion anyway. Might need some tweaking, but I think it has some potential. One problem I foresee is that it might get pretty spammy generationg wreckage sites every time someone with even a little bit of exploration data dies.

Question have you done real exploration and If you died and how? I have been out for a very long time. Other than minor Module repairs I still flying strong. The only time I had issues is if I am not paying attention. Other people might have intoxication issues. Which we should not cater to their needs.

As usual, you've missed the point.

I think you missed the point. If you are not paying attention to the game and you die. It's your fault. The Op complaining about 250 Jumps going to a Guardian site.

The thing about exploration is that, when exploring, you tend to spend most of your time in uninhabited parts of the galaxy. And the thing about places that are uninhabited - probably the most obvious thing about them - is that they're uninhabited. And uninhabited places tend to have no people in them. And when there's no people, there also no space stations, let alone space stations where you can sell Cartographic Data.

Let look at the Ops location. It not very far. Yes, he said 250 Jumps. But an engineered or a few Neutron jumps. He could cut that travel time in half. Being in a major explored area. Most of the Data he has Already been explored before. So he not going to have many explored First bonus.

Besides, gameplay could easily be added for information retrieval by time-limiting the availability of the cartographic data. It could be that you have to retrieve it within a certain period of time (e.g. 48 hours). Or, maybe the longer you leave it, the more it degrades, and the less value (and data) it contains.

IF this was added. Why not add Bounty Hunters and Traders.

Bounty Hunting, combat, and trading all take place in populated space with plenty of space stations within just a few minutes travel. Game-play loops are a lot shorter, and opportunities to 'save' your progress are much more frequent. Ship loss is not such a big deal under such circumstances since comparatively little time has passed between 'save' points.

See that depends on how long you stay out in bounty hunting not everyone picks Mulitcannons and whine about running out of ammo. Some players just use lasers and hit easy targets. So they can stay out for weeks or months while combating. You failed on that one.

Now I learn I could do Penniless to Elite trader in one day. Now IF I use my Mining Cutter Full of Void Opal and was going to sell 672 tons it for 1,687,669 each. I would have 1,134,113,568 on one trip That over a Billion credits. If I had a player or NPC kill me. Should I not have the same benefits? It also took time and effort.

Explorers can be out for months and so the lost time, more so than the lost credits, is comparatively huge.

I just proved Traders and Combat players can lose a mass amount of credit and time and effort also.

 

[nanite2000]

Let look at the Ops location. It not very far. Yes, he said 250 Jumps. But an engineered or a few Neutron jumps. He could cut that travel time in half. Being in a major explored area. Most of the Data he has Already been explored before. So he not going to have many explored First bonus.

Where did the OP say he was interested in 'First Discovered' bonuses?
Where did the OP say he was concerned about how many credits he'd lost?

Cartographic data is still valuable to the individual player. The ability to (re)view systems you previously visited via the Galaxy Map and System Map has value, especially as proof of how far he's travelled.

IF this was added. Why not add Bounty Hunters and Traders.

I can't tell if you're being deliberately obtuse or not. Why would you be Bounty Hunting and Trading in uninhabited space?

The OP was only talking about exploration data.

See that depends on how long you stay out in bounty hunting not everyone picks Mulitcannons and whine about running out of ammo. Some players just use lasers and hit easy targets. So they can stay out for weeks or months while combating. You failed on that one.

I can't even figure out what argument you're trying to make here, let alone understand how it relates to deep space exploration.

Now I learn I could do Penniless to Elite trader in one day. Now IF I use my Mining Cutter Full of Void Opal and was going to sell 672 tons it for 1,687,669 each. I would have 1,134,113,568 on one trip That over a Billion credits. If I had a player or NPC kill me. Should I not have the same benefits? It also took time and effort.

If you had no choice but to mine those opals thousands of light years from the nearest space station, and it took you weeks/months to do so? Yes, I think it would be quite reasonable to have the same benefits.

But again you're focusing only on the credits when the OP has made no mention of credits.

I just proved Traders and Combat players can lose a mass amount of credit and time and effort also.

If that's your idea of a 'proof' then I have to question your education.

Why do you assume the OP is only interested in how many credits he's lost?

 

[Kissamies]

Question have you done real exploration and If you died and how? I have been out for a very long time. Other than minor Module repairs I still flying strong. The only time I had issues is if I am not paying attention. Other people might have intoxication issues. Which we should not cater to their needs.
I think you missed the point. If you are not paying attention to the game and you die. It's your fault. The Op complaining about 250 Jumps going to a Guardian site.

Yes, I think I've done "real" exploration, however you define that. I'm currently returning to Colonia from Beagle's Point/Salomé's reach in a slightly roundabout way. No, I've never managed to die. Even close calls are so very rare that I don't consider exploration dangerous at all. I've mastered my jet cone boosting technique so far that it's completely routine to me now. The only times in recent history that I've been reminded of my mortality is when I stopped respecting the high gravity worlds and lost 60% of my hull landing on one and last week when I crossed the Abyss quite far to the West and started to wonder if I might run out of jumponium and get marooned. Like you say, carelessness. On a side note, the once self-proclaimed queen of Sagittarius A*, CMDR Lysianassa tried to gank me on Beagle Point, but I only lost one shield ring to her before high wake. I don't count that event to the times I nearly died.

In this thread I don't really care about making it more forgiving to those who do somehow manage to die. I'm interested of the potential new gameplay the survey cache mechanic might bring. If there's a wreck site 15,000 lys away that you have to get to in time to salvage part of the exploration data lost, that could be a great story.

 

[Lestat]

Yes, I think I've done "real" exploration, however you define that. I'm currently returning to Colonia from Beagle's Point/Salomé's reach in a slightly roundabout way. No, I've never managed to die. Even close calls are so very rare that I don't consider exploration dangerous at all. I've mastered my jet cone boosting technique so far that it's completely routine to me now. The only times in recent history that I've been reminded of my mortality is when I stopped respecting the high gravity worlds and lost 60% of my hull landing on one and last week when I crossed the Abyss quite far to the West and started to wonder if I might run out of jumponium and get marooned. Like you say, carelessness. On a side note, the once self-proclaimed queen of Sagittarius A*, CMDR Lysianassa tried to gank me on Beagle Point, but I only lost one shield ring to her before high wake. I don't count that event to the times I nearly died.

Well if you ever get Marooned you can call fuel rats. Oh, you can get the hull damage repaired from Fuel rats.

In this thread I don't really care about making it more forgiving to those who do somehow manage to die. I'm interested of the potential new gameplay the survey cache mechanic might bring. If there's a wreck site 15,000 lys away that you have to get to in time to salvage part of the exploration data lost, that could be a great story.

So the same with a Trader with 1 Billion worth of cargo or a bounty hunter that accumulated a mass amount of Bounties. See Both Trading and Combat and Exploration has its risks. You as a player has to know when the risk is too great. If you are so worried about losing your Exploration data at 15,000 LY away. Then you have to make that choice. To turn it in. Having an Easy mode for Exploration and not for Combat or Trade kinda unfair.

 

[sandkid]

I'd support the creation of a data canister USS...but I dunno how that would be coded. What's more, you'd have to make it Open-Only...another hurdle...otherwise it's just too easy to recover your lost time. Exploration simply becomes a time-sink, rather than risk/reward, because the loss of the ship itself isn't risk enough (all professions have that as a baseline).

I do think it is odd we have cross-galaxy communications...but can't send stellar data...but, meh, it's a game.

Ultimately, I would argue the problem is that exploration - as a system of features - is built to incentivize long travels (ok, that makes sense) with a low risk (ok, still on par) with a low payout (Umm...it's a lot of time, which should be worth something...) and a high loss ratio in failure (100% loss...yeah, not ok).

The point being: ideas like OP come about because there is a discrepancy in how the reward loop is built for exploration. The feature incents travel and significant time from stations by design (this is good and makes sense for the theme of the system of features) but its reward structure doesn't reflect the deep commitment required in its payout or its penalties.

Losing all of the data makes sense - really, I mean you got blown up in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, He's dead Jim.

But that data being worth only millions doesn't. Data from just outside the bubble (or in it) shouldn't be worth diddly-squat. It's 3305 - we got telescopes that can tell us what you turned in you numb-nut! Data from the other side of Sag A* on the other hand...tens of thousands of lightyears from ANY station...that should be worth a fortune! And if it was worth a fortune...total loss from failure would make sense.

Alternatively, data that can be recovered could be sensible - it's a lot of time invested after all - but it won't be worth a lot because the risk is virtually nil. You're being paid for your time, not your skill. We call that low-wage labor. Grunt work. Again, this would then make sense.

To recap:

Option 1: Exploration Data worth much more based on distance from nearest stations, total loss on failure, probably needs more stellar phenomena 'risks' as features (occassional FSD malfunctions, even at 100%, unique reactions to certain nebulae or star types, gravity more severe...etc.)

Option 2: Exploration Data worth less, not based on distance, total loss on failure but can be recovered, essentially grunt work that pays for time invested not skill.

 

[nanite2000]

So the same with a Trader with 1 Billion worth of cargo or a bounty hunter that accumulated a mass amount of Bounties. See Both Trading and Combat and Exploration has its risks.

Actually not the same. How far away from a station would a trader and/or bounty hunter be compared to a deep space explorer? Do you really not understand the difference between a trader/bounty hunter being a few minutes away from a save point compared to an explorer who is literally weeks/months away? Are you seriously not able to comprehend the massive difference in time invested by those 2 groups of players?

Having an Easy mode for Exploration and not for Combat or Trade kinda unfair.

Why are you OK with 'easy mode' for long boring SuperCruise journeys that require zero skill, but not this?