Reclaim lost scan / mapping data

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Option 1: Exploration Data worth much more based on distance from nearest stations, total loss on failure, probably needs more stellar phenomena 'risks' as features (occassional FSD malfunctions, even at 100%, unique reactions to certain nebulae or star types, gravity more severe...etc.)

Option 2: Exploration Data worth less, not based on distance, total loss on failure but can be recovered, essentially grunt work that pays for time invested not skill.
For clarity...I definitely support Option 1. More skill gap, please.

Honestly, I do want more payout...but I'd trade more payout for more things that can kill me in the black. Space Madness is not a feature - it's the power button on my console. MOAR WAYZ 2 DIE PLZ. Extra points for unique cockpit explosion sequences (because if I'm gonna melt to death, I wanna see the frame of my poor ship reflect that so that the PTSD from losing my data has a dramatic picture to go with it).
 
Well if you ever get Marooned you can call fuel rats. Oh, you can get the hull damage repaired from Fuel rats.
Well, I don't think they can supply jumponium unless there is some mechanic I'm unaware of. For hull damage, I have put a repair limpet controller the extra slot they provided so I can handle that myself now. Anyway, if I've had a weaker, less engineered ship at that crash, I would have died right there, so I guess the point of that ramble might have been that I can understand how someone might get killed exploring.
 
I never found exploration requiring a real skill. That what make this topic so funny. If you feel the data you collected is not worth losing. Maybe it time focus on the nearest station. They already dumb down exploration. Dose it really need to be any lower?
 
I never found exploration requiring a real skill. That what make this topic so funny. If you feel the data you collected is not worth losing. Maybe it time focus on the nearest station. They already dumb down exploration. Dose it really need to be any lower?
My thoughts exactly - the issue isn't payout or loss of data, it's that the feature system of exploration itself lacks a skill gap large enough to justify the risks it needs to be interesting...let alone credit-valuable.

Edit: Additional thought, this is why I like the FSS - it's neato and kinda cool to use (to me)...but also hate it, because there is literally no skill involved in using it. Patience isn't a skill, otherwise mail delivery drivers would be filthy rich.
 
My thoughts exactly - the issue isn't payout or loss of data, it's that the feature system of exploration itself lacks a skill gap large enough to justify the risks it needs to be interesting...let alone credit-valuable.
I heard one time we use to have NPC pirates in deep space. Which would make this idea more valid.
 
I heard one time we use to have NPC pirates in deep space. Which would make this idea more valid.
I'd support this around 'lamp-post' areas, like Nebulae, which naturally draw commanders...so would obviously draw NPCs, lawful and unlawful alike. Tourist beacons in the black spawn passenger ships, for example, where there are no stations. So piracy is certainly reasonable...although these pirates need to be hunting for something other than cargo (since you probably have none of value). That ties into a totally unrelated idea around ship destruction granting rewards beyond piddly materials, such that pirates don't just interdict you and say 'Aw shucks'...which has never made sense to me.

Beyond those areas though (a tiny portion of the galaxy), you need other risks that are skill oriented. Right now, the only skill risk in deep space is dropping out of hyperspace...virtually no skill, but folks do still do it...and Neutron jumping, which is fairly risky until mastered. There are lots of ways to add stellar phenomena that are risky and require skill to explore:

  • Asteroids moving at a much more rapid pace, requiring solid maneuvering skill and situational awareness
  • Dusty Atmosphere clogs thrusters, making ship much more susceptible to gravity than normal (0.8g suddenly very deadly if not approached smartly)
  • Solar Weather makes fuel scooping much more heat intensive, requiring heat sinks on even the coolest ships creating significant risks for ships not built for this work (see: Beluga Liner as an explorer)
  • Intense Magnetic Disruption from stellar bodies renders cockpit readouts inoperable. FSD and basic nav data is available, but ETA readouts and stellar bodies on radar are scrambled.
  • Random FSD failure: when hull integrity reduces below 50%, micro-punctures become more common and can result in FSD failure on warp-out or drop-in. Explorers will need to be adequately prepared with modules and resources to combat this in the event of a long expedition.
  • Random module failure: "..." and can result in module failure, requiring repair. This includes life-support. If an AFMU isn't present (or itself broke), reboot and repair will be necessary...potentially further complicating the journey. Reactor cannot randomly fail for obvious reasons.
  • Fuel Scoop Clog: the fuel scoop has become clogged from micro-debris during supercruising. On dropping out, the fuel scoop deploys but has reduced intake. The solution is to burn off the debris...must be at 90% or higher to make progress towards burn-off.
The list goes on...ironically, many of these could be used for other professions to enhance their own gameplay. The asteroids would be great for combat pilots if pirates spawned in asteroid clusters. Magnetic Disruption could be used around certain rare goods stations, making their acquisition that much more difficult.

Exploration is indeed fairly risk-free. It 'feels' risky because of total loss, but is in fact not risky. It just has a high penalty for a high time investment with a low payout.
 
I'd support this around 'lamp-post' areas, like Nebulae, which naturally draw commanders...so would obviously draw NPCs, lawful and unlawful alike. Tourist beacons in the black spawn passenger ships, for example, where there are no stations. So piracy is certainly reasonable...although these pirates need to be hunting for something other than cargo (since you probably have none of value). That ties into a totally unrelated idea around ship destruction granting rewards beyond piddly materials, such that pirates don't just interdict you and say 'Aw shucks'...which has never made sense to me.

Beyond those areas though (a tiny portion of the galaxy), you need other risks that are skill oriented. Right now, the only skill risk in deep space is dropping out of hyperspace...virtually no skill, but folks do still do it...and Neutron jumping, which is fairly risky until mastered. There are lots of ways to add stellar phenomena that are risky and require skill to explore:

  • Asteroids moving at a much more rapid pace, requiring solid maneuvering skill and situational awareness
  • Dusty Atmosphere clogs thrusters, making ship much more susceptible to gravity than normal (0.8g suddenly very deadly if not approached smartly)
  • Solar Weather makes fuel scooping much more heat intensive, requiring heat sinks on even the coolest ships creating significant risks for ships not built for this work (see: Beluga Liner as an explorer)
  • Intense Magnetic Disruption from stellar bodies renders cockpit readouts inoperable. FSD and basic nav data is available, but ETA readouts and stellar bodies on radar are scrambled.
  • Random FSD failure: when hull integrity reduces below 50%, micro-punctures become more common and can result in FSD failure on warp-out or drop-in. Explorers will need to be adequately prepared with modules and resources to combat this in the event of a long expedition.
  • Random module failure: "..." and can result in module failure, requiring repair. This includes life-support. If an AFMU isn't present (or itself broke), reboot and repair will be necessary...potentially further complicating the journey. Reactor cannot randomly fail for obvious reasons.
  • Fuel Scoop Clog: the fuel scoop has become clogged from micro-debris during supercruising. On dropping out, the fuel scoop deploys but has reduced intake. The solution is to burn off the debris...must be at 90% or higher to make progress towards burn-off.
The list goes on...ironically, many of these could be used for other professions to enhance their own gameplay. The asteroids would be great for combat pilots if pirates spawned in asteroid clusters. Magnetic Disruption could be used around certain rare goods stations, making their acquisition that much more difficult.

Exploration is indeed fairly risk-free. It 'feels' risky because of total loss, but is in fact not risky. It just has a high penalty for a high time investment with a low payout.
I think this idea needs it own topic.
 
I think this idea needs it own topic.
Sadly, it has it in many different threads. Fact is, exploration needs loving in forms that go beyond the existing mechanics.
The never-ending 'I don't want to lose my data' threads and 'Make the Honk great again' threads are simply symptoms of this fact.

Thing is, it's not likely exploration will be getting any new mechanics anytime soon. Unless FDev has data indicating otherwise, it simply isn't a core feature from a player count perspective...which inherently leads to the conclusion it isn't a priority. See: CQC, C&P, Multicrew, Powerplay...
 
I would just want it for realism. Then we can allow damage and stuff to be calculated and potentially get stuff back. But then again we would also need proper death and your clone or whatnot giving you info on where you died etc.
 
In GTA V a marker is placed on the vehicle doing a mission so everyone can get involved in trying to stop it or beat it to the source. If that happened in game, if people got a message that a player is trying to reach system X to recover data, you could go to that system and either gank said player or take the data first. Of course, not knowing the name of the player, you'd suspect anyone who showed up and fights could ensue. Then the actual player could somehow sneak around all that and grab the data.
 
A lot of professions in Elite require little to no skill. Doing cargo runs can yield you tens of times more credits per invested time while you only risk concurrent missions at any one time. In exporation you can go to BP, and doing it non-neutron highway it can take you months. One mistake and it is all irreversibly gone, months of gameplay.

So declaring exploration as a skill-less danger-less profession is just plain wrong.

I always did and will support a way to reclaim lost data. Black box, even if limited to the same player, would be a great way.
 
A lot of professions in Elite require little to no skill. Doing cargo runs can yield you tens of times more credits per invested time while you only risk concurrent missions at any one time.
But if you are in a cutter or type 9 it not a mission you taking time mining Void opal. You can lose over a billion credits. Should I get the same benefits as an explorer who lost 1 billion credits in deep space?

In exporation you can go to BP, and doing it non-neutron highway it can take you months. One mistake and it is all irreversibly gone, months of gameplay.
That If you explore each system. But 8 hours if you just go to the nearest station and don't explore. That kinda blows months theory.

So declaring exploration as a skill-less danger-less profession is just plain wrong.
The the only time it skilled base. Is when the player flies Stupid due to drugs or Alcohol basically impaired flying and I don't see how you can call that skilled base. Or when the player not paying attention to the game. Now accidents do happen. But we should not have an I win button.
 
But if you are in a cutter or type 9 it not a mission you taking time mining Void opal. You can lose over a billion credits. Should I get the same benefits as an explorer who lost 1 billion credits in deep space?
You missed his point again. He’s not talking about the amount of credits accumulated- he’s talking about time spent between saves.

That If you explore each system. But 8 hours if you just go to the nearest station and don't explore. That kinda blows months theory.
Oh, come on! You have got to be trolling us now. You’re basically saying there’s no risk when exploring as long as you don’t explore, and don’t travel more than a few hours from a station? Is that how you ‘explore’??

The the only time it skilled base. Is when the player flies Stupid due to drugs or Alcohol basically impaired flying and I don't see how you can call that skilled base. Or when the player not paying attention to the game. Now accidents do happen. But we should not have an I win button.
Your comment above contradicts itself in its first 2 sentences.

You reference player drug and alcohol use a lot. Are you sober now?
 
Hay Nanite2000 don't you think we should have some risk in exploration? Or do you die a lot in Exploration? I am still trying to solve this one.
 
But if you are in a cutter or type 9 it not a mission you taking time mining Void opal. You can lose over a billion credits. Should I get the same benefits as an explorer who lost 1 billion credits in deep space?
Yes that would be idea. Others could also. I have a feeling they haven't because of stuff related to server space and networking for the game. It would bring about more things like scavenging as a real profession.
 
Hay Nanite2000 don't you think we should have some risk in exploration? Or do you die a lot in Exploration? I am still trying to solve this one.
I have no problem with risk, but I dislike the current lose-months-of-effort-in-one-fell-swoop mechanic we have right now.

No other profession (trading, bounty hunting, etc...) has this issue, despite what Lestat would like to believe, and it’s not impossible to improve on this.

I feel the current mechanic can be improved upon without necessarily making exploration entirely risk free. If I’m 20,000 LY from the nearest star port, and I die, then I will end up 20,000 LY from where I died - that’s a large distance to traverse to re-acquire my data, especially if it’s recovery is time limited.

I dislike the attitude of certain individuals on this forum who insist that the current exploration mechanics cannot be improved upon, and that players can only die if they are drunk or high. That kind of small-minded mentality contributes nothing of value to what should otherwise be a worthwhile discussion.
 
I have no problem with risk, but I dislike the current lose-months-of-effort-in-one-fell-swoop mechanic we have right now.

No other profession (trading, bounty hunting, etc...) has this issue, despite what Lestat would like to believe, and it’s not impossible to improve on this.

I feel the current mechanic can be improved upon without necessarily making exploration entirely risk free. If I’m 20,000 LY from the nearest star port, and I die, then I will end up 20,000 LY from where I died - that’s a large distance to traverse to re-acquire my data, especially if it’s recovery is time limited.

I dislike the attitude of certain individuals on this forum who insist that the current exploration mechanics cannot be improved upon, and that players can only die if they are drunk or high. That kind of small-minded mentality contributes nothing of value to what should otherwise be a worthwhile discussion.
When we did not have engineering, Synthesis and neutron stars and what can be repaired now. This idea would have been a good idea. We had had what 38ly max jump at the time? Today moving 20,000 in a few hundred jumps is not so uncommon today and pretty quick. Plus Synthesis and Neutron stars to boot. I think the last one I did was 30,000ly and I only did 500 jumps using Synthesis and Neutron stars. I skipped system that had useless stars and planets why Waste my time on them. So I think I skipped scanning 250 systems. So we can't really go with time my time is valuable.
 
So we can't really go with time my time is valuable.
Please don’t assume that just because you don’t value your time that other people also don’t value theirs. Most people are not blessed with an unlimited amount of free time.

Your entire argument boils down to the idea that just because people can jump slightly further now, it somehow means they no longer spend a huge amount of time in deep space. What is your evidence for that?

You and Lestat are both effectively saying you don’t like what the OP is suggesting and you think it’s fine as it is right now. That’s fine - thank you for sharing your opinions. You don’t need to keep repeating yourselves. Unless you have something further that contributes to this discussion, then can i suggest you consider participating in other threads?
 
But if you are in a cutter or type 9 it not a mission you taking time mining Void opal. You can lose over a billion credits. Should I get the same benefits as an explorer who lost 1 billion credits in deep space?
As others already explained, TIME is of the essence. I can't hop back from Beagle Point to turn in the data, I'll travel for months RT. A billion credits in void opals will take you a fraction of the time and you can turn them in at any time.
 
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Please don’t assume that just because you don’t value your time that other people also don’t value theirs. Most people are not blessed with an unlimited amount of free time.

Your entire argument boils down to the idea that just because people can jump slightly further now, it somehow means they no longer spend a huge amount of time in deep space. What is your evidence for that?

You and Lestat are both effectively saying you don’t like what the OP is suggesting and you think it’s fine as it is right now. That’s fine - thank you for sharing your opinions. You don’t need to keep repeating yourselves. Unless you have something further that contributes to this discussion, then can i suggest you consider participating in other threads?
Well I look at a hour game time in any game feature is an hour.

Now Jump slightly? I am looking at players with ships up to 80 ly Jump range which is 2 times what Elite Dangerous started with and I just found this Max Jump Range. It pretty insane 320Ly.

Now the last part of your post. Why don't you do the same. I don't have to agree with the Op suggestion and I can voice my views. But feel free to follow your own words and adventure elsewhere.
 
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