Notice A statement on cheating in Elite Dangerous.

[Agony_Aunt]

I was talking about the 5-1 cheat/exploit.

CMDR, I really don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this. It is blatantly obvious to most other people that cheating/exploiting/modifying stats is happening. I respect that you are trying to have FDevs back on this and am fine with that, but the fact is, for all to see, is that Fdev only react (and even then, under duress it seems), and when they do, it's to ban to solo. Any other MMO that Ive heard of banning cheaters was to ban then to the trash can.

This is not Paige's fault or anyone on the community team, it's down to a systematic failure at company level.

I may have it wrong, but I feel, players want to know and feel assured, that the other player they see on screen, is not hacking or cheating his ship to god levels. Nothing we have seen or heard from FDev instills any form of confidence with me in relatioin to that.

Thank you for the polite response. Sorry, i thought you were talking about the current cheat. My apologies.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Not to be too pendantic but you did say first that FDev had said what they "can" say...and now you're saying that they have said "what they're willing" to say. Those two are far apart indeed.

Can i say they are saying what the can and are willing to say? That covers both!

 

[Thepirateorc]

If they task kill or pull the cable, then yes. If they exit via the menu, then no.

If they stop manouvering and you hit them but they don't take damage, then its likely they task killed. If they are taking damage, then its likely they are looking at the countdown timer and will vanish when the timer is up (unless you kill them first).

Whether they get punished or not is unknown. SDC have some strong words on the matter about this.

I consider menu logging as no different as pulling the cable to be honest. I have had many players log on me and it only get worse because frontier show nothing and because of that it creates the likely image they do nothing which in turn increases the amount who will log.

 

[znôrt]

Hah, do you not keep up with the rhetoric around here? Do you not know that menu loggers also get published on the combat loggers subreddit?

rumors! fake news!

For some people, menu logging is a heinous crime that should be punishable with 50 lashes or more!

they are wrong, then. it's just embarrassing, 50 lashes is way too much

 

[Factabulous]

The secret to good web comedy? Post timing!

 

[dreampage]

Easier said that done. Source: Me, ex-hacker.

The devs have to make it a real pain for the hackers, so much so that they just give up. Its harder than it sounds. There are methods, but they can come with a cost.

I know it's hard of course. But apparently it was possible to create a whole software with so many "features", which is a testament to the weakness of the game's security. One would think an always-online game, that connects to the servers for every single button press, would be safer from such exploits. You don't see this kind of level of system-level cheating in all games. Yes, there are some shooters and whatnot and a lot of games suffer from cheaters in one way or another, but in my eyes this is on a whole new level. And it's been going on for months now, maybe even more. Complete with a UI and everything. If the whole game is server-based, how can they not see and immediately filter such in-game events? Shots that take no damage, FSD that charges instantly etc. Some logs or something must be created with this data I'm sure. I'm not a game developer so I don't know. But it seems too easy for the hackers and Frontier seems to react too slowly which suggests there's a fundamental problem here.

 

[Arry]

Why would fd monitor outside forums?
Do you actually believe anything posted on reddit? I have a bridge ya know.

Maybe they should be omnipresent?

 

[rOmiLaYu]

Can i say they are saying what the can and are willing to say? That covers both!

Indeed you can.

 

[znôrt]

The secret to good web comedy? Post timing!

well played, sir, well played!

now to the pressing matter: which avatar is uglier?

 

[Arry]

Can i say they are saying what the can and are willing to say? That covers both!

Unless, they are only, being seen, to be saying something.

 

[znôrt]

Unless, they are only, being seen, to be saying something.

there's two fronts here: technical and political.

it seems a significant technical breakthrough is needed to salvage what's revealing itself as a complete failure of poilitcs.

just like the world. history repeating.

Spoiler

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I know it's hard of course. But apparently it was possible to create a whole software with so many "features", which is a testament to the weakness of the game's security.

Its not just the security. Its everything. Look at how with every patch something new breaks, or some old bug that was fixed breaks again. Its a terribly complex bit of software. How much of this is simply due to the scale of the code, and how much is due to bad coding practices, can't say. I suspect there is lots of spaghetti code in ED.

What we used to do in some of our projects (when i was working for a software company) would be after a few years, it would become such a monster, with patches made quickly due to quick fixes being requierd, and maybe a dev didn't follow best practice, or customer demands or spec changes that meant doing something it was never designed to be done, we would have to refactor part of the system. Sometimes several parts of the system. Sometimes it would get so bad we would have to recommend to the client that it was time for a complete rewrite, because it got to the point that even simple fixes/changes were taking so long to make, or would run too much chance of breaking something else, that in the long run it was actually just cheaper to scrap everything, kill version 1, and rewrite version 2 from zero.

Not all projects of course. Depended a lot on the clients, requirements, how well things were specced from the start, the architects, the devs, time pressures, etc. But sooner or later, all long running projects need a good refactor.

I doubt FD can afford to do any sort of significant refactor of the game. They probably do small ones on specific areas when they identify things are simply getting too impossible to maintain. Can you imagine what the code for the BGS looks like these days after all the changes they have made over the years? Is it any wonder that after a new change there are so many issues that need fixing? Maybe they have already had to refactor it. No idea.

Unfortunately, in a big project like this, there are many attack vectors.

Maybe FD could step up their game. Maybe they could make it a lot harder. Maybe they just don't have the right skills and experience. Or maybe the code is a real mess.

No idea, but things are not always as easy as people think.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Unless, they are only, being seen, to be saying something.

The plot thickens!

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Indeed. But we have been here before. Just over a year ago. Same rage on the forums and elsewhere. FD saying they are dealing with it. Rage continues. People demanding FD do something. Declarations that people will quit (many of those still here, raging on the forums again). The same arguments. And eventually, FD did a ban wave and blocked the cheat, for a while, until the hackers found a way around it.

The Wheel of Time turns, and months come and pass, leaving forum posts that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the cheaters become active again.

In short, this forum at times has a damn short memory.

Personally I haven't played in months.

Right now I'm an investor's worst nightmare: An unhappy customer who not only refuses to spend more on the game for the time being, but also going out of his way to criticise the game. Hopefully it makes a few people, at least, think twice before hitting that buy button.

Right now I cannot in good character recommend anyone to buy ED. In fact, out of said good character, I'm actively advising against it.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Personally I haven't played in months.

Right now I'm an investor's worst nightmare: An unhappy customer who not only refuses to spend more on the game for the time being, but also going out of his way to criticise the game. Hopefully it makes a few people, at least, think twice before hitting that buy button.

Right now I cannot in good character recommend anyone to buy ED. In fact, out of said good character, I'm actively advising against it.

Ok, heading a bit off topic here, but i think you are doing disservice to those who might enjoy the game. Its one thing to be open and honest about what you see as flaws and problems with the game, and ideally you at the same time say what you think is good about the game (and you must think some things are good considering how much you have played the game). You can tell them there cheats out there (i'm sure this won't come as a big surprise to anyone who has played any online game before). Then let them make up their own mind. Encourage them to do their own research and ask questions.

Don't put people off from enjoying a game they might enjoy just because you have issues with it.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

There releasing a new title in a few months time so I have no doubt they'll manage without your 3 quid a week in skins.

Edge: 100

It's just something to think about when you buy any FD product.

We can all only do our little part. But numbers add up, no matter how small.

I never said that I expect to single-handedly ruin FD, not even close. Right now I'm just spreading criticisms, which I'm quite entitled to do, especially outside this forum. Yes, I don't just post here. I have seven other tabs open right now. Three of them are on other websites discussing how much FD has failed as a GM.

The word is spreading.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Ok, heading a bit off topic here, but i think you are doing disservice to those who might enjoy the game. Its one thing to be open and honest about what you see as flaws and problems with the game, and ideally you at the same time say what you think is good about the game (and you must think some things are good considering how much you have played the game). You can tell them there cheats out there (i'm sure this won't come as a big surprise to anyone who has played any online game before). Then let them make up their own mind. Encourage them to do their own research and ask questions.

Don't put people off from enjoying a game they might enjoy just because you have issues with it.

Read above.

 

[rOmiLaYu]

Edge: 100

It's just something to think about when you buy any FD product.

We can all only do our little part. But numbers add up, no matter how small.

I never said that I expect to single-handedly ruin FD, not even close. Right now I'm just spreading criticisms, which I'm quite entitled to do, especially outside this forum. Yes, I don't just post here. I have seven other tabs open right now. Three of them are on other websites discussing how much FD has failed as a GM.

The word is spreading.

I miss the old Uni.

Hope the tattoo is coming along nicely.

 

[rajziel]

Isn't there a limitation on things like that? 3 months or something? Or variable depending on the good purchased? I'm not familiar with the particular laws.

Bans don't help with the dedicated cheaters anyway. They just get a new account (often during a sale, they might pick up a few copies every sale), then right back at cheating. Credits are so easy to make, even without cheating they can have a billion with one day of playing.

I agree, they need to be banned, but it doesn't stop many of them.

I've mentioned this a few times, maybe you never heard the story, but there was a guy on the old cheat forums who lost 10 accounts due to cheating at ED (really a serial cheater, it think he was one of the cheat devs, i might be mistaken on that, the forums are there if you don't mind digging through old posts). Instead of it stopping him he said words to this effect : I probably should slow down on the cheating a bit.

Not stop, just slow down a bit.

aye bans dont stop dedicated cheaters thats true.

What they do though, is stop the casual player who's seeing those cheaters, from joining in.

Honestly, thats the first battle that they need to win, keep it contained to those willing to throw money away as they are a minority, otherwise the game will justy be overwhelmed with cheats.

But stopping dedicated cheaters is a full time long term job. I hope noone thinks its an easy thing to do, just look at other games.

 

[Jenner]

Please stay on topic. Thanks!