Notoriety is just no fun
- Thread starter Bionic Bytes
- Start date
I fail to see why. Because your skills are not as good as theirs?Yet another reason to treat them differently.
We are the people in the game, you may go ahead and believe you are the only person in the game and therefore what you think must be right, but there are actually other people in the game who don't think the same way as you, so get off your high horse and consider that other peoples opinions have as much relevance as yours.
That's pretty much irrelevant to the issue. 1) you aren't boss of crime syndicate and 2) whether or not you are the boss of crime syndicate who considers it a business and your activities a career, society just views it as crime and you will get punished when caught, so no it's not a career, it's still just crime. Re: Al Capone, if they don't get to lock you away for life for murder they will do it for tax evasion, so if you fly into a station that's locked down because you have notoriety I would consider you are getting away with it lightly, they should just either arrest or waste you the moment you fly through the slot.
As I said I am quite happy for there to be more depth to piracy and smuggling, to crime in general even, but to argue you shouldn't get punished because you look on crime as a career is just an argument from entitlement, you don't get to decide what is crime and what is a career, society does, and this one has decided you deserve to be punished with a set punishment. If your life as a criminal means you can't partake of all the activites us law abiding citizens enjoy that's because you made a choice to be a criminal, arguing over punishment isn't an option, there's a set punishment that you can avoid with the correct actions.
Nobody said there shouldn't be any punishments. You replied to my post talking about FD neglecting to make illegal careers a more developed gameplay path. Then you went on some weird tangent about defining careers through a legal prism.
Did you guys check if it was a legal or illegal mission?
Illegal missions are exactly why factions hire indy pilots to do the dirty work and take the fall.
Just saying.
If you blindly took a mission which involved killing innocents for credits, then consider yourself a criminal.
No, I replied that crime is not and never has been a career path, you can make it a game play path without it being a career path that's no problem, but the point of C&P in the game is that it reflects crime and punishment in a real society, so partaking of a game play path that involves crime will result in harsher and harsher penalties the more crimes you commit. The Elite universe is allowing you to enjoy the lifestyle of an independent pilot in a fully realised physical and social galaxy, at least that's the aim, and that involves things like laws being modeled as well as punishment.
Ok it's never going to be perfect, but a good law abiding citizen should never be punished without justification, and a criminal should be punished. The fact you think you don't deserve to be punished the way you are being punished is irrelevant, you have access to a list of laws and punishment for breaking said laws that apply in the game just as the rest of us do, you can avoid being punished, ignorance of the law is not an excuse, just take this session of punishment as learning experience and be more careful in the future, that's how punishment is supposed to work.
My only problem with Notoriety is that there is no upside to it at all. I've said it before, but I'd love for Notoriety to positively impact on your reputation with Criminal Factions, & boost the prices you get from the Black Market. It needs fleshing out IMO.
Mission targets don't attract notoriety, even if it's a crime.
Issue is the op was helping his mate out with the mission targets, but had no association or involvement with the mission themselves.
So... a better scenario is, imagine i took an illegal hit contract, and the entity arranging the hit said "btw, we'll have words with some cops we have on the hook, and make sure this doesn't get out further than it needs to for you"... which is great for you, but you then just subcontract some other lackey, offering no such arrangements.
That's a bit more reflective of this situation.
This, 100%. Notoriety should be something "bad guys" want to keep hold of, rather than avoid.
True. But There is also no real action against highly notorious players who choose to gank indiscriminately.
All you really need is for specialized Elite level, engineered AIs to start going after those with higher notorieties in populated systems.
The higher the security level of that system the more you will be interdicted by these special forces NPC Elite wings.
And then tweak those "special" places, and bring them up to high sec if they aren't already.
Eg. Shinrarta, Deciat, Cubeo, etc etc.
Only the most hardened and persistent gankers will be able to survive and thrive in those systems with the constant interdiction of these super NPCs.
So if you get interdicted by a wing of gankers, within 10 secs, 3 wings of Elite engineered NPC Anacondas and FDLs will jump in to your rescue.
Let's make life interesting for gankers. I'm sure they're fully up to the challenge, right?
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The problem isn't with C&P. The problem is with the lack of content that could urge you to want to be on the run for that many hours, and instead you want to just switch back to normal play without any residual effects on yourself other than the credits you earned. I actually enjoy that my current notoriety is 5 and that I have to camp out in an anarchy system and try to swing the states to things I can profit from, while foraying now and then into civilized space at which point some clean bounty hunter interdicts me and I clean his clock. There goes more notoriety. Tis the life on the other side.
What? So you want to murder someone, and then have your wanted level reduced in just a day?
Doesn't make sense to me.
I mean, all you have to do is to fly to a different system and you're basically a free citizen once again. Back to normal play. Clean as a whistle.
You don't even need to be in an anarchy system.
Don't see the point in giving notoriety an up side. Is there ever a logical reason to give perks to a criminal?
Again, I'm not saying I don't want to be penalized. If anything, I'm one of those players who think ship insurance should not exist so that ship and module destruction would be permanent, the consequences of reckless or careless player action.
I'm just saying it's a dumb system that resulted from a bait and switch by the devs who had seemed to promise a more fleshed out system when they first announced C&P changes. Many people thought they were going to make piracy and smuggling and all that good stuff more in depth and engaging, like they did recently with mining and exploration. Do you understand now? We had an entire sub forum dedicated to player input and suggestions on the changes and nobody could have imagined that after all that, all we would end up with were just some dumb pvp timers that arguably affect pve players more significantly.
career
noun
UK /kəˈrɪər/ US /kəˈrɪr/
The job or series of jobs that you do during your working life, especially if you continue to get better jobs and earn more money.
It's a career.
It was blatantly obvious what the new C + P was from the outset. Many, many people highlighted that it was for PvE (and primarily BGS) capping. No dev said these changes would make smuggling any better, or that it was going to make PvP 'fair' or curb it.
Because they are different, that's the point.
(I don't really understand what this skill "argument" of yours is based on.)
But they are not different. There is no difference between players and NPC.
I gave a lot of thought since you replied, and I couldn't thought of any online games in which players and NPCs were treated differently.
Aside from the fact that this is mostly irrelevant to the topic at hand - notoriety, treating NPCs differently, etc. - You are fundamentally wrong in your understanding (your personal definition of career?). Please take a moment to Google 'career' have a look at the various definitions, the etymology of the word from it's Latin roots, the modern day common usage of the term - nowhere does whether or not society recognises, values, or accepts a chosen path have any relevance. Actually, let me help you get started... from the simplest of starting points...
The career is an individual's metaphorical "journey" through learning, work and other aspects of life. There are a number of ways to define career and the term is used in a variety of ways.
The Oxford English Dictionary defines the word "career" as a person's "course or progress through life (or a distinct portion of life)". This definition relates "career" to a range of aspects of an individual's life, learning and work. "Career" is also frequently understood[by whom?] to relate to the working aspects of an individual's life - as in "career woman", for example. A third way in which the term "career" is used describes an occupation or a profession that usually involves special training or formal education,;[1] considered[by whom?] to be a person's lifework.[2][not in citation given] In this case "a career" is seen[by whom?] as a sequence of related jobs, usually pursued within a single industry or sector: one can speak for example of "a career in education", of "a criminal career" or of "a career in the building trade". A career has been defined by organizational behavior researchers as "an individual's work-related and other relevant experiences, both inside and outside of organizations, that form a unique pattern over the individual's life span." [3]
(sure, there's a few weasel words and it's lacking citations, but please do share a source that supports your notion that something requires societies consent to be recognised as a career)
Are you certain about the first bit?
Because there are illegal missions asking you to massacre civilian ships from another faction. And that involves taking out clean targets.
Which will end in you getting a bounty. And notoriety as you continue to murder.
Absolutely certain. It's even in the mission description. I do this and Wetwork Jobs regularly and don't earn notoriety.
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