"We are listening to the community"...

babelfisch

babelfisch
Alien said:
Wrong.
Apple is not forcing you to buy one of their phones.
Frontier is not forcing me to buy their Arx
Frontier IS however forcing me to ONLY be able to buy their Arx and not be able to buy using cash.

You and others keep twisting the discussion because otherwise you'd get ripped to shreds and you know it.
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Correct, the problem with your argument and the use of 'force' is that it's pointless though. I could just as well say that Frontier is currently forcing me to use real cash to buy paintjobs, which might be just as bad.
Using the term 'force' doesn't give the argument a new layer or quality, it just makes it sound worse.
 

dxm55

Banned
D
babelfisch said:
Correct, the problem with your argument and the use of 'force' is that it's pointless though. I could just as well say that Frontier is currently forcing me to use real cash to buy paintjobs, which might be just as bad.
Using the term 'force' doesn't give the argument a new layer or quality, it just makes it sound worse.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's about being forced to buy, rather than being forced to buy something else, before being able to buy the items that you want in the end.

If that's the case, then it's true.

Apple doesn't force you to buy Apple Credits in order to buy an iPhone.
I'd imagine that there would be an outcry if everyone was suddenly told that they needed to buy iBucks before they could buy any Apple products.

Prove me wrong. All of you tell me that you would be happy to buy this imaginary iBuck before being able to get a Mac or iPhone. And that you can only buy them at fixed $500 packs / amounts :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: No refunds by the way. You can always top up another $500 if you have leftovers that are worthless. You can then buy another Apple product with that. ROFLMAO.


But the main gist is still this.
I can pay a direct amount for what I want now.
I don't want them to take that ability away.

It's fine for me if ARX is introduced as a second method to get items. I don't care really. As long as I still can buy it the old fashioned way.
 

B1rdy

B1rdy
babelfisch said:
Correct, the problem with your argument and the use of 'force' is that it's pointless though. I could just as well say that Frontier is currently forcing me to use real cash to buy paintjobs, which might be just as bad.
Using the term 'force' doesn't give the argument a new layer or quality, it just makes it sound worse.
Click to expand...
It is semantics. The point being, by moving to ARX the customer has no advantage. Only by making them achievable in game, this disadvantage might be mitigated, depending on the effort to get them.

JustJon said:
But I thought the whole point was you earned Arx literally by just playing the game.

So it's like free?
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If your time is worth nothing or you are entertained during the process, then yes, sort of.
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
B1rdy said:
It is semantics. The point being, by moving to ARX the customer has no advantage. Only by making them achievable in game, this disadvantage might be mitigated, depending on the effort to get them.
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Sure. The way I look at it it's probably good when Frontier makes more money with cosmetics, in the end the players benefit most from it because it ensures the game gets supported.
I've always seen paintjobs as a thank you for the great game and continuous development, they are completely optional after all.

If your time is worth nothing or you are entertained during the process, then yes, sort of.
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I can already see a completely new level of ridiculous and invalid arguments:

'Frontier is forcing me to play the game, so I can buy more paintjobs in order to play the game.'
:D
 

Factabulous

Factabulous
babelfisch said:
I can already see a completely new level of ridiculous and invalid arguments:

'Frontier is forcing me to play the game, so I can buy more paintjobs in order to play the game.'
:D
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I predict the main ones will be:

"I grinded all week and now you tell me the Arx per week is capped!"

and the ever predictable:

"I grinded for my Arx and haven't been credited with them!". Not that fdev ever lose stuff down the back of the sofa - amiright station repair dudes :)
 

B1rdy

B1rdy
babelfisch said:
Sure. The way I look at it it's probably good when Frontier makes more money with cosmetics, in the end the players benefit most from it because it ensures the game gets supported.
I've always seen paintjobs as a thank you for the great game and continuous development, they are completely optional after all.
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If you put it that way (as other have before), it doesn't sound that much optional. It sounds more like, if you don't buy any paint jobs, the servers might be shut down.
I don't like the idea, that players are being pushed to "support" a multi million dollar company with lots of share holders in that way. Because it is in-transparent, how much money has to be spent in order to "ensure the game to be supported".
 

Shaamaan

Shaamaan
babelfisch said:
It's just awesome that people still ignore the ability to earn Arx in game, even though we talked about it for 15 pages. It's not like you don't have a point, but it would be more honest to mention it.
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Financially (at least as far as short-term gains are concerned) it is in the developers' best interest to make the in-game process as grindy and annoying as possible. It's very rare for a game to have decent in-game prices for things that can be bought with premium currency (or even regular real-world currencies, for that matter).

And let's be completely real: Frontier do NOT have a good track record when it comes to implementing non-grindy mechanics. As such this point of "you can earn them in game" might be reserved only for the most dedicated players...
 

JustJon

J
B1rdy said:
It is semantics. The point being, by moving to ARX the customer has no advantage. Only by making them achievable in game, this disadvantage might be mitigated, depending on the effort to get them.

If your time is worth nothing or you are entertained during the process, then yes, sort of.
Click to expand...

But from what I have heard you get it just for doing your normal gameplay.

So go mining - you will get some ARX, do some exploring you will get some ARX - you will not get any ARX for sitting around doing nothing and being logged on..

For me it is win-win as I have never bought anything from the store mainly because I do not like paying money for cosmetics - so now I may be able to buy some stuff.
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
B1rdy said:
If you put it that way (as other have before), it doesn't sound that much optional. It sounds more like, if you don't buy any paint jobs, the servers might be shut down.
I don't like the idea, that players are being pushed to "support" a multi million dollar company with lots of share holders in that way. Because it is in-transparent, how much money has to be spent in order to "ensure the game to be supported".
Click to expand...
I just bought a single paintpack in 5 years and yet the servers are running. It's optional for YOU. For the game it probably isn't.
Anyway, the problem of in-transparency persists regardless of the shop. How many copies of the game do they need to sell in order to keep the servers running?
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
Shaamaan said:
Financially (at least as far as short-term gains are concerned) it is in the developers' best interest to make the in-game process as grindy and annoying as possible. It's very rare for a game to have decent in-game prices for things that can be bought with premium currency (or even regular real-world currencies, for that matter).

And let's be completely real: Frontier do NOT have a good track record when it comes to implementing non-grindy mechanics. As such this point of "you can earn them in game" might be reserved only for the most dedicated players...
Click to expand...
I could just as well argue that buying paintjobs is something for dedicated players.
 

peteuplink

peteuplink
iFred said:
I wonder who of you guys screamed "ARX" when it comes to the question "What feature would you like to see next"?

Honestly - one out of 100.000?
Click to expand...

The people who asked for ARX were probably the same people that asked for engineers and multicrew... There must be lots of them, but you never see them posting on the forums because they only exist inside the minds of FDev developers...
 
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Deleted member 182079

D
It'll be interesting to see if those who are cheering over the option to earn Arx as part of gameplay will ultimately flood the forum with posts such as "earning Arx is a pain in the Arx!!!" because it'll be a massive grind and/or capped at a ridiculously low level (and I couldn't even blame FDev for doing so, they want to make money).

As has been pointed out above, with FDev's track record of implementing grindy gameplay I'd set my expectations waaaaay low on this.
 

Factabulous

Factabulous
peteuplink said:
The people who asked for ARX were probably the same people that asked for engineers and multicrew... There must be lots of them, but you never see them posting on the forums because they only exist inside the minds of FDev developers...
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Engineers are great! Not that I asked for them, but they certainly add to the game - and if m/c worked ....

Edit: And it hardly takes people in the forums to say 'crafting and playing with friends are both common parts of popular games'....
 

Northpin

Northpin
dxm55 said:
I don't think it's about being forced to buy, rather than being forced to buy something else, before being able to buy the items that you want in the end.
Click to expand...

Oh, then you will start to argue that they are forcing you to buy ED before being able to buy paints :ROFLMAO:

Anyway, when i pointed that packages might not be that bad after all (with the added bonuses of Free Arx and being able to buy a single paint instead of a pack) you said, "but they are forcing me to use another currency"
And when i pointed out that working in another currency is not the end of the world, you went back to packages are evul. :)😊😁😆🤣
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
ObiW said:
It'll be interesting to see if those who are cheering over the option to earn Arx as part of gameplay will ultimately flood the forum with posts such as "earning Arx is a pain in the Arx!!!" because it'll be a massive grind and/or capped at a ridiculously low level (and I couldn't even blame FDev for doing so, they want to make money).

As has been pointed out above, with FDev's track record of implementing grindy gameplay I'd set my expectations waaaaay low on this.
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I don't see anyone cheering about it, it's just used as an argument when people say that FDEV is the most evil, greedy, shady and immoral company in the world.
 

Deleted member 182079

D
babelfisch said:
I don't see anyone cheering about it, it's just used as an argument when people say that FDEV is the most evil, greedy, shady and immoral company in the world.
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Maybe cheering is exaggerating a little, but I've seen a fair few posts now where people seem quite happy/excited/looking forward to it. It's also highlighted when others express scepticism against Arx overall ("but you can earn them in-game!"). I wish FDev were already in a position where they outlined the pricing structure and the exact ways and rate that Arx can be earned. Would eliminate a lot of extreme views on both ends of the spectrum that are based on speculation and individual expectations.
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
peteuplink said:
I just think the time they wasted on engineers, powerplay and multicrew could have been better spent sorting out atmospheric landings.
Click to expand...
Maybe, maybe not.
ObiW said:
Maybe cheering is exaggerating a little, but I've seen a fair few posts now where people seem quite happy/excited/looking forward to it. It's also highlighted when others express scepticism against Arx overall ("but you can earn them in-game!"). I wish FDev were already in a position where they outlined the pricing structure and the exact ways and rate that Arx can be earned. Would eliminate a lot of extreme views on both ends of the spectrum that are based on speculation and individual expectations.
Click to expand...
It's more like:
'This is unfair and unethical, Frontier is forcing me to throw away my money when I want to buy a Paintjob for 8 but can only buy Arx for 10'
And people point out:
'You could also buy Arx for 5 and earn 3 in-game.'

Anyway, generally I agree with you.
 
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