How to land on a hostile station?

[Shir]

Lately I'm playing some Bgs, trying to liberate this system from their Communist Nomenklatura and install a noble Imperial Dictatorship!

So my Corvette killed system authority ships while my Python did mission for the empire faction, and soon enough we reaped war!

All this plus doing massacre missions now have made the communist faction that controls all stations in the system hostile to me. I believe the stations would shoot me on sight regardless of the ship being clean!

So I got 7 completed missions but cannot land to deliver them! Second day of the conflict. Any ideas?

Maybe they are present to other systems as well so I can work my rep there.. have to check.

 

[Factabulous]

Run missions that don't rely on docking at the hostile locations. If the faction doesn't control a location you will be able to land there, depends in what missions & where

 

[Shir]

I managed to find them on another system, and donated half a million to the party! That did it, back to unfriendly now!!

 

[Iskariot]

Lately I'm playing some Bgs, trying to liberate this system from their Communist Nomenklatura and install a noble Imperial Dictatorship!

So my Corvette killed system authority ships while my Python did mission for the empire faction, and soon enough we reaped war!

All this plus doing massacre missions now have made the communist faction that controls all stations in the system hostile to me. I believe the stations would shoot me on sight regardless of the ship being clean!

So I got 7 completed missions but cannot land to deliver them! Second day of the conflict. Any ideas?

Maybe they are present to other systems as well so I can work my rep there.. have to check.

As far as I know you should be fine if you are able to sneak in without getting scanned by security.

 

[Shir]

No i think from the past the station shoots you on sight, its not like being wanted where you need to get scanned and then only the police attacks you.

I will find out though, cause i landed at unfriendly, handed in the massacre mission, and the station became hostile, i got the message under attack while docked (but no damage). Now im inside ... hehe, see what happens when i take off!!!

 

[Jmanis]

As far as I know you should be fine if you are able to sneak in without getting scanned by security.

Not anymore.

I complained about this change when it first happened for a number of reasons I'll leave at the door.

Being proper hostile (not powerplay hostile) means any docking request is denied automatically... and you can't dock without permission. Note this is only for hostile with the faction controlling the station. Hostile with a superpower has no effect [1].

Back in the day, you could dock at outposts no problems when hostile, and docking at stations meant running cold+silent... making your docking request just below 7.5k and powering in as fast as possible. It was a great challenge, and one which sadly got removed.

[1] It actually has the bizzare effect (likely a bug) of reducing your rep loss... while being allied increases your rep loss.

 

[Jmanis]

I will find out though, cause i landed at unfriendly, handed in the massacre mission, and the station became hostile, i got the message under attack while docked (but no damage). Now im inside ... hehe, see what happens when i take off!!!

This is one way current hostile mechanics are stupid.

• being wanted/ having fines denies access to most station services, but allows docking
• being hostile denies docking, but if you're already docked when becoming hostile, does not deny services.

Docking when hostile should be permitted under the same rules as when wanted; that is... you dock under anonymous protocols, have station services restricted, and are attacked if detected. Only difference is you can't clear your bounty to get all services, if you're hostile.

Corollary: anon protocols should either:
-kick in automatically if you are in such a condition, and the station can't identify you (and therefore offers the restricted dock); or
- is a toggle similar to silent running, and docking will be denied (May even trigger hostile response if appropriate) on request unless active .

Both systems have useful (and different) game effects better saved for a different post.

 

[Jane Turner]

I'll refrain from commenting

 

[Shir]

Well, i had a lot of unclaimed bounties, other valuable data so i didn't risk it. I cashed some bounties and got unfriendly again before taking off. I believe i would have been shot on sight by the station before flying away.

Not sure what to make of this. It's just the way things work i guess. Yesterday my wanted ship got interdicted by a clean bounty hunter while going back to the system i use to change ships. I forgot that i cant shoot back, killed him, became wanted and then had to find another port nearby and move both ships! The paramilitary underdogs life! hehe

 

[Iskariot]

Not anymore.

I complained about this change when it first happened for a number of reasons I'll leave at the door.

Being proper hostile (not powerplay hostile) means any docking request is denied automatically... and you can't dock without permission. Note this is only for hostile with the faction controlling the station. Hostile with a superpower has no effect [1].

Back in the day, you could dock at outposts no problems when hostile, and docking at stations meant running cold+silent... making your docking request just below 7.5k and powering in as fast as possible. It was a great challenge, and one which sadly got removed.

[1] It actually has the bizzare effect (likely a bug) of reducing your rep loss... while being allied increases your rep loss.

Oh, that is sad, although there is of course some logic to it. I mean... a hostile station should refuse to give docking permission, shouldn't it?
So what if you need fuel then, and the one station is you only option?

It actually has the bizzare effect (likely a bug) of reducing your rep loss... while being allied increases your rep loss.

That's crazy. Does FDev know this?

 

[Northpin]

It does make the things rather inconvenient to fight the authority, isn't it?

 

[Jmanis]

Oh, that is sad, although there is of course some logic to it. I mean... a hostile station should refuse to give docking permission, shouldn't it?

It only makes sense if wanted ships are also refused docking permission. However, they aren't, because they access the station via Anonymity Protocols... therefore denying the station the ability to identify you[1], but equally denying most services on board because you won't identify yourself.

So there's only two scenarios which make sense:

• A station denies docking when you're either wanted or hostile; or
• A station allows docking when you're either wanted or hostile, through use of Anonymity Protocols in both cases, which deny the station the ability to identify you.

To allow one, but not the other, in either combination, is completely contradictory and makes no sense. I would prefer FD allow docking using Anon Protocols, as it leaves open the possibility to implement new antagonistic capabilities, which the near-complete absence of states like Famine and Lockdown (compared to their positive counterparts) demonstrates are sorely lacking from the game.

I'd be "OK" with a station denying access if you were wanted or hostile... but you can imagine the forum-salt that would ensue? And it just "locks out" any potential content you could implement around antagonistic behaviours requiring you to sneak onto the target station.

[1] Despite the fact the station identifies you over voice-comms even when approaching the station with anonimity protocols active (when wanted). It takes some major cognitive dissonance to think that's fine.

That's crazy. Does FDev know this?

I never reported it, because I'm split in two minds about it.
The logic is, the higher your superpower rating, the more multiplied rep effects are. So, if you gain rep with a superpower-aligned faction when allied to that superpower, it's (roughly) four times more effective than if you were hostile. Conversely, any negative rep effects are four times more damaging.

On the one hand, that doesn't make sense to me (as I already mentioned)... but on the other, what would get you angrier?

• Being stolen from by someone you know regularly steals from you; or
• Being stolen from by your best friend?

I would assume the latter.... so it kinda makes sense? But I also feel like it's unintended.

 

[dm06]

It does make the things rather inconvenient to fight the authority, isn't it?

Though I don't kill two authority ships every day before breakfast. But I think that "authority" is a very local term. It has power in specific place and at certain time. There's not authority beond that.

 

[Iskariot]

It only makes sense if wanted ships are also refused docking permission. However, they aren't, because they access the station via Anonymity Protocols... therefore denying the station the ability to identify you[1], but equally denying most services on board because you won't identify yourself.

So there's only two scenarios which make sense:

• A station denies docking when you're either wanted or hostile; or
• A station allows docking when you're either wanted or hostile, through use of Anonymity Protocols in both cases, which deny the station the ability to identify you.

To allow one, but not the other, in either combination, is completely contradictory and makes no sense. I would prefer FD allow docking using Anon Protocols, as it leaves open the possibility to implement new antagonistic capabilities, which the near-complete absence of states like Famine and Lockdown (compared to their positive counterparts) demonstrates are sorely lacking from the game.

I'd be "OK" with a station denying access if you were wanted or hostile... but you can imagine the forum-salt that would ensue? And it just "locks out" any potential content you could implement around antagonistic behaviours requiring you to sneak onto the target station.

[1] Despite the fact the station identifies you over voice-comms even when approaching the station with anonimity protocols active (when wanted). It takes some major cognitive dissonance to think that's fine.

You make very good points. I have to agree with all of it.
I wonder if FDev realizes this. They should tweak the mechanic.

 

[CunningStunt]

I recently spent a while with hostile reputation against a specific faction as we forced them into retreat and held them under 2.5% with daily hostile acts against their npcs. I would also take donations for them a let them expire which would lower my rep further. Occasionally I would take a mission from another faction to deliver to a planetary base they controlled and when requesting docking they deny it and the security ships attack. Luckily they are present in many systems nearby so it was easy to find a station they didn't control and spam a few donation missions to repair my rep as far as unfriendly, then I could dock at stations they control again.

 

[Rubbernuke]

You can also wait and do something else for a while and your rep will go from hostile to unfriendly. It takes a while though and is not a short term thing.

My advice is to plan ahead and know where will be hostile and where you can go. That way, rather than getting in a flap you are cool, collected and have a plan, Hannibal style...

 

[Jmanis]

My advice is to plan ahead and know where will be hostile and where you can go. That way, rather than getting in a flap you are cool, collected and have a plan, Hannibal style...

That's not really the problem though... the problems are:

• internal inconsistency with respect to the use of anonimity protocols; and
• inconsistent logic around " I'm hurting this faction in a way they don't like... better make them happy again so i can keep hurting them".
• near compete absence of accessible antagonistic gameplay... resulting in virtual non existence of negative states.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the core problem i have isn't getting locked out of stations. I do plan and i work around it... but this is a case of the tail wagging the dog... working around the hostile mechanics is not hard... that doesn't vindicate hostile rep and antagonistic gameplay from being an utterly broken and illogical mess.

 

[Rubbernuke]

That's not really the problem though... the problems are:

• internal inconsistency with respect to the use of anonimity protocols; and
• inconsistent logic around " I'm hurting this faction in a way they don't like... better make them happy again so i can keep hurting them".
• near compete absence of accessible antagonistic gameplay... resulting in virtual non existence of negative states.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the core problem i have isn't getting locked out of stations. I do plan and i work around it... but this is a case of the tail wagging the dog... working around the hostile mechanics is not hard... that doesn't vindicate hostile rep and antagonistic gameplay from being an utterly broken and illogical mess.

I agree entirely, especially negative states. The inconsistencies are maddening but I know that FD won't change them now, so I've kind of given up hoping and do the illogical stuff so I can get on and play.

 

[Witcher 7]

Not anymore.

I complained about this change when it first happened for a number of reasons I'll leave at the door.

Being proper hostile (not powerplay hostile) means any docking request is denied automatically... and you can't dock without permission. Note this is only for hostile with the faction controlling the station. Hostile with a superpower has no effect [1].

Back in the day, you could dock at outposts no problems when hostile, and docking at stations meant running cold+silent... making your docking request just below 7.5k and powering in as fast as possible. It was a great challenge, and one which sadly got removed.

[1] It actually has the bizzare effect (likely a bug) of reducing your rep loss... while being allied increases your rep loss.

Why did you complain? This sucks now because it's quite easy to become hostile with a faction with a war prolonged by opposing players fighting for the enemy.

When you are hostile to a controlling faction during a war, their authority ships who interdict you will also shoot on sight.

 

[Rubbernuke]

their authority ships who interdict you

Unless its high sec this is not a problem, and who loses to security in an interdiction?