Does anyone actually enjoy engineering?

[House0fDerp]

I started playing after the random engineering had gone the way of the dinosaur and had seen the 'old' way on youtube so was surprised when I saw nothing of the like on my first engineering trip.

It actually looked like fun, in that the 'best' roll might not be all roses...

What we have now is ok and consistent (bar RNG after 3 rolls) but bland

The problem with engineering now is- whats the point? Everyone is going to max out so there is nothing special about it, its simply replaced A grade kit with a AA rating. Old engineers gave inconsistent results but made modules unique that few others would have.

It always felt to me like the lack of blandness was functionally superficial. A few percentage points here and there but not a change to how the ship fundamentally works or what the mods were that people chose to fit. The kind of thing you'd know from a factual perspective but never feel compared to the next person doing the same thing.

And you might say, "but what if you aren't doing the same thing?" In that case you never needed engineering to make things distinct, fitting worked just fine and current engineering offers plenty of further distinct options even if everyone can hit the peaks.

My other suggestion would be to strip out the gambling part and just have the engineers give flat, experimental style boosts to modules. Nothing gets overpowered, and you have simple tweaks.

The current engineering system has capped results. The power peaks can be tweaked at any time but won't be due to fears of invalidating time invested (an issue they created through designing the system to sink as much time as they could get away with) and complaints about nerfing the effectiveness of player ships now that we've become accustom to the results of power creep.

 

[Daniel264]

I certainly enjoy the process, I even like having to unlock engineers. I don't like the sheer quantity of materials involved. You said about experimenting with different engineering upgrades, I've never done that. The material expenditure is to high, I just seek advice on what to do. It's like unlocking guardian tech. I enjoyed doing that as well at first, scavenging ruins. But to unlock it all you need 2 and a half times your max guardian tech components which is frustrating and when you keep relogging to collect from a site it strikes me as a broken gameplay system

 

[AgentGB]

Not terribly looking too forward to it tbh, but it something that is on my to do list once i have grown the warchest. Also tbh haven't much need for it, since the stock weapons seem to get the job done for the most part. Powerplant, Shields, & Jump Drive is the priority for me.

 

[Enderby]

Engineering is behind a grind-wall cos ED lacks gameplay
it's obvious
just sayin

 

[AgentGB]

Engineering is behind a grind-wall cos ED lacks gameplay
it's obvious
just sayin

Overall ED is a good game, the canvas is there, for me it the lack of having skin in the game or with any faction, maybe i'm just unaware of certain systems worth fighting over that would/could affect my profitability, the realm v realm mechanic is there, but no one as any real skin in it apart from building good relations and getting access to certain gear, which is all well & good but doesn't scratch that itch for me. If i had stake in a system that was partially player controlled/small stake holder via a 'percentage share' system that paid me a weekly dividend, i'd more likely do my upmost to contribute to its economy and defence while undermining surrounding competitor systems. I suggested an idea here

As for the thargoid, i'll wait until they get to the gates of Rome before i sign up

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Engineering is behind a grind-wall cos ED lacks gameplay
it's obvious
just sayin

Lol. That's a good joke.

 

[Enderby]

Lol. That's a good joke.

No joke mate
my opinion
others are available

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

No joke mate
my opinion
others are available

There is loads of gameplay elements in the game. That's a fact, not an opinion. What the game is low on is meaningful reasons to do that gameplay unfortunately. Saying that, the current initiative has been a big step in the right direction. Giving us meaningful reasons to do the gameplay in the game.

I have been playing this game for 5 years. So I know as a fact there is gameplay. Just flying the ships is gameplay, working out trade routes is gameplay, doing missions is gameplay, mining is gameplay. There is loads of gameplay in the game.

 

[fus roh potato]

Most of the gameplay loops are pretty bad, and it's not hard to reason that bad gameplay is practically the same as no gameplay, especially when many of them are hard stopped by bugs.

 

[House0fDerp]

I might be lucky but I've never been hit by a gameplay bug that I could say actually hard stopped me. I've experienced minor lost progress but that's about the extent of it.

 

[WinterKing2112]

Most of the gameplay loops are pretty bad, and it's not hard to reason that bad gameplay is practically the same as no gameplay, especially when many of them are hard stopped by bugs.

You playing on PS4?

 

[WinterKing2112]

Engineering is behind a grind-wall cos ED lacks gameplay
it's obvious
just sayin

I had to logout during a mining session last night. When I log back in in about 1 hour or so I am gonna get chased by a bunch of pirates. So I am gonna get plenty of gameplay very soon! Not sure what you're on about..... or were you just being negative 'coz that's your thing?

 

[Enderby]

I had to logout during a mining session last night. When I log back in in about 1 hour or so I am gonna get chased by a bunch of pirates. So I am gonna get plenty of gameplay very soon! Not sure what you're on about..... or were you just being negative 'coz that's your thing?

As I say, other opinions are available.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

As I say, other opinions are available.

It's not about subjective opinions. It's about facts and that facts are that there is plenty of gameplay in the game. Whether you like the gameplay is down to you. But saying there isn't any is factually incorrect. It's a computer game, we play it, therefore there is gameplay.

For there to be grind, which you keep talking about there has to be gameplay. So all you are doing is contradicting yourself by saying that.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

Wow- this thread has legs! Thanks to all who've posted and shared their ideas, it's much appreciated!



I used to love playing ED, but power creep overtook my fleet. My default action became 'run away' from the AI, combat in my non-engineered ships was no longer viable. That put a huge amount of game content behind a grind wall. I spent several months upgrading one of my ships, it proved to be a colossal pita, even with all the very kind help and advice I received on the forum.

I quit playing.

The question you ask is actually back to front in my case. I loved everything I did in Elite apart from engineering, but the requirement to engineer to continue to access the gameplay I loved is just too much for me. I don't have a lot of leisure time, I'm not willing to spend it on activities I don't enjoy.

The sad thing is I'm not missing the game. Engineering has left such a foul taste in my mouth I find myself willing to just walk away from what was my dream come true on release.

I only came back to the forum tonight on a whim. I'm amazed that this thread is still going- I guess the topic generates strong opinions in most people. Unfortunately, I can't see a polarising issue as good for any customer base. I really hope Frontier can figure out a way to resolve the conundrum, because just leaving things as they are will only drive players away from what was once the very best space themed game on the market.



Yes, but they'll infuriate players who actually enjoy gathering materials for engineering!

Make the grind a one time only activity- once a mod is unlocked, no more mat gathering to apply it to identical components.

Simplify the trading process- either by axing most of the mats required, or at least allowing the mat trader to deal in all materials.

Change the utterly bonkers exchange rate.

Have alternatives to mind numbingly boring grind activities. Challenging missions with significant material rewards would be nice. Failing that, just allow us to buy mats. I'd much rather trade/mine/smuggle/bounty hunt 'X' million credits than run around like a demented Mario Cart driver for hours on end at what would otherwise be really cool hidden locations, or drop into endless USSs, or trundle around shooting unconvincing outcrops on unconvincing terrain features for what seems like forever.

But my opinion no longer really matters. I'm not playing the game any more, I'm unlikely to buy future content. I'm not even particularly likely to visit the forum any more. I wish you all well, I hope the game continues to be a success and I'll try, at some point, to bite the bullet and start to play again. For now though, I'm afraid I'm taking an extended break.

Some good suggestions there, although I do enjoy the process of gathering the mats. But I agree completely that the exchange rate is pretty terrible. Buying mats also seems like a logical suggestion.

Incidentally, it seems to me like grade 5 mission rewards are very scarce now? The trick of trading down doesn't seem nearly as good anymore.

 

[Factabulous]

Incidentally, it seems to me like grade 5 mission rewards are very scarce now? The trick of trading down doesn't seem nearly as good anymore.

Not that I know of - have you moved to a new system recently? You'll get more rewards from missions once you are allied with a faction.

 

[fus roh potato]

It's not about subjective opinions. It's about facts and that facts are that there is plenty of gameplay in the game. Whether you like the gameplay is down to you. But saying there isn't any is factually incorrect. It's a computer game, we play it, therefore there is gameplay.

This examination of semantics is only supporting an irrelevant conclusion, and your irrelevant conclusion is not what "it's" about.

 

[Wes Datt]

Yes & No.

Yes, I enjoy being able to improve equipment.

No, with exception to getting guardian blue prints, if you can call the guardian stuff engineering (seems very similar to me), its the same as prospecting. Really your just the go - for prospector for the engineers. I guess you can call it engineering, since you use engineers, but for the player that's pretty much as far as it goes so far as engineering. It could be just as easily be called prospecting.

 

[Kubicide]

Serious question. I don't mean 'do you enjoy having an engineered ship' or 'do you enjoy trying out different engineering modifications', I mean do you actually enjoy the process, the things that you do to get to that engineered module?

Acquiring vast amounts of materials, trading them when (inevitably) you don't have the one you want, at a massive loss, getting a series of lousy rolls that eat all your mats before you complete the mod you're aiming for?

I read posters on here stating that they've engineered whole fleets of ships in next to no time. I believe them- why wouldn't they tell the truth?- but I'm not enjoying anything like the same rate of progress. I decided to fully engineer my mission runner, an 'A' rated Python, back in November. I'd been tinkering with it for a while, I had what I thought was a huge amount of materials stockpiled and I'd unlocked a few engineers. I gave up half way through December and, in spite of having a whole week off at the end of the month, I didn't even flash Elite up. I just couldn't face it any more.

For most of the last four years I've put in a couple of hours a night, two or three times a week. Not exactly a power player, but not 'casual' either. Now I'm watching ED videos instead of playing- what kind of saddo does that? It's over a fortnight since I last played and I don't have any particular urge to change that.

Each completed mod has been a revelation. The Python is transformed. I really can't express how much of a difference the engineering makes- it's vastly more than finally installing 'A' class modules when I started the game.

But that's just hacking me off. It's painfully obvious just how pants stock ships are compared to engineered ones. I've got a whole fleet of vanilla ships that are a real struggle to just survive in. I don't mind running away every now and then, but the AI is balanced against much tougher kit than I'm flying. I can see where the 'git gud' crowd are coming from- my partly engineered Python is just melting AI opponents! But I'm about as 'gud' as I'm going to 'git', my fleet needs a ton of work and yeGodsinHeaven I'm burned out just getting one of them up to scratch!

I'd love to try out some of the newer ships, but I know that stock, even 'A' rated, they'll be easy pickings for dumb as a brick AI with ridiculously strong weapons and shields. It's not about skill, or lack thereof, the game's set-up is suffering from power creep. I wouldn't object to that, if engineering to the new standard wasn't such a massive pain in the posterior for me.

Am I looking at this all wrong? Is engineering actually a fun activity that I'm just not 'getting'? [uhh]

Answer = no. No one actually likes Engineer gameplay as designed. But it is what it is. Some folks like vegemite so...

 

[Six6VI]

Answer = no. No one actually likes Engineer gameplay as designed. But it is what it is. Some folks like vegemite so...

Didn't see an exit poll requesting my opinion. Got any evidence to support this?