![[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/234/234580.jpg?1612617334){kind=avatar}
So that’s a no then.
The game industry cant go on like this.
- Thread starter [PS4] Lorenzo Waringos
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So that’s a no then.
I didnt say that and your not putting words in my mouth. Git Gud. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
You are now the only person on my ignore list.
And with a non-comedic use of the phrase 'git gud', you can go on mine.I didnt say that and your not putting words in my mouth. Git Gud. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
You are now the only person on my ignore list.
I didnt say that and your not putting words in my mouth. Git Gud. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
You are now the only person on my ignore list.
I’m crushed.
Unlikely.
If you want to create a convincing depiction of violence or it's effects, you do need real-life examples to draw from.
What degree of realism is necessary in a depiction is going to be subjective, and dependent on market demand. If a developer/publisher thinks convincing violence and gore helps them sell games, they probably have some compelling data to back that up, if they are at all successful. Of course, there should still be full disclosure of what one's job will entail.
I can sympathize with people caught in situations beyond their control though no fault of their own, people defending their homes from imminent danger, and people that have to work unappealing jobs to make ends meet. However, I have considerable difficulty sympathizing with those who volunteer to do potentially monstrous or disturbing tasks, of their own free will, then find out they can't handle that sort of environment.
Why? A discerning customer base that does have experience of real-life violence in order to be able to tell whether your portrayal is sufficiently realistic?
I thought we generally argued that games don't link to real-world violence?
Raising the further issue of the morality of undertaking a development project that requires real-life violence in order to be successful. It would be quite easy to argue that a developer faced with such a project should consider themselves under a moral obligation to reject it.
Such as those who join a military force knowing that that force will embark on expeditionary campaigns for the protection and advancement of ideological, corporate and/or industrial interests - and then regret some of the things they're asked to do in its service?
Some will. And even for those that don't a cascade of inaccurate assumptions can easily lead to an immersion defying experience at some point.
This is probably not an issue in Mortal Kombat, but could be in other games. I've played plenty of titles where assumptions built on other assumptions undermined the whole production, all because someone didn't do their due diligence in knowing what they were writing/designing.
Just because games aren't going to make me any more or less violent doesn't mean I'm not going to appreciate an attention to detail.
Morality is at least as subjective as the degree of realism desired in a given medium.
I don't have have any moral qualms about violence in and of itself, and I certainly don't view it as immoral to view or display real-life violence that wasn't performed for the sake of the production in question.
Of course.
I'd say that doesn't matter. Frak, if I can't get a flightpath indicator in a space game I see no reason we should cater to the small proportion of weirdos who need hyper-realistic real-life violence to stay immersed in a fighting game.
Like I said, we're supposed to be arguing that violent games do not violent people make - aren't we?
And I can't tell whether that's rational, or understandable, because I don't know what those things are. There are plenty of things that kick me out of an immersive experience. And there are plenty of things I can overlook, even if grudgingly (for e.g., most of the flight mechanics in ED, for a start). But:
"Appreciate attention to detail". Hmm. Yeah, I love it when leaves move convincingly in the breeze; when light plays properly across a street; when a character moves with a convincing sense of weight and balance.
Oh, yeah, and knowing exactly how someone's severed spine twitches as the last few electrical impulses discharge themselves really keeps me in the experience, you know?
It's a constant difficulty in science and medicine to work out when the use of unethically obtained data can be justified. When do the ends justify the means? This is of course assuming a passive provenance - that the data already exists, and the question is only whether to use it or not. In such cases the need would have to be pretty severe, and I'd argue the same question can and should be asked in this case.
What is the severe need that can only be met by the use of unethically obtained information (unethical either in the original violence enacted and recorded, or in compelling game developers to seek it out and study it)?
Missed this bit, sorry.
Here you contradict yourself.
You sympathise with
You do not sympathise with
Yet appear to be saying here that you also sympathise with
Since you don't quibble with my description here, we're left with you affirming sympathy for people who are in a situation of their own free will, are not defending their homes from innocent danger, and do not have to work the job to make ends meet.
I cannot speak for you, but if that's the experience that is supposed to be portrayed, making it as believable as possible, would certainly enhance it's verisimilitude.
This applies equally to fallen leaves moving convincingly in a breeze as it does to the sheen of interstitial fluid on spilled viscera. I see no rational reason to expect or laud detail in one and not the other.
I have no such difficulties. If the information exists, and has actual utility, it should be used.
I see no ethical or moral qualms, as long as the data is sufficiently anonymized and care is taken to make the deterrent for victimizing people to obtain said information sufficiently strong.
That's not a correct interpretation of my response.
I see two ways my statement could have been interpreted; one of which was my intent, which is the only one that makes any sense in context, and the other which was not at all my intent, and does not make any sense in context. Perhaps I could have been more clear, but you chose to run with the latter.
Next time, if you perceive a contradiction in one of my posts, ask for clarification, or use context clues.
This is about right frankly as it applies to this thread article.
I can only speak for my own experiences other here have similar. I am part of the medical services in services, I have seen and treated many hundreds of horrifically injured people over the years, some of the injuries were literally unbelievable and beyond the experience of just about anyone. I do think about these people from time to time BUT I dont feel damaged by it nor do the vast majority of my colleagues. Mainly I think because we had time to process what was coming in to us beforehand, it wasnt a surprise and we could steel ourselves and support the team afterward. Nothing was a surprise or a shock. The data skews for the front line medic or infantryman that goes into a situation and finds this, those guys suffer PTSD a lot. Mainly because of the repetitive short sharp shock.
Anyway that is as you would describe it....manly ...warrior PTSD. Think on this though anyone can witness horrific events such as car crash, suicide, murder etc etc ... they are short sharp shocks. Dont have be "manly" or "warrior" at all.
These developers "chose" to work for this company surely in the full knowledge of what that company produces in terms of content, in an industry where they could literally choose their employer and content. They surely could not be more prepared mentally for the trials of that work and to boot....they could leave at any time.
I can only cynically think that the vast majority of these complaints in the gaming industry are cries for help but related to other aspects of their employment and little at all to do with their art.
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Single player games not worth the investment?
Perhaps they should stop shelling out 50% of the production budget on crappy marketing.
Perhaps they should stop shelling out 50% of the production budget on crappy marketing.
I believe you do not.
I'm not sure what you think anonymisation has to do with it but okay. Again, I'm happy to accept that you see no ethical or moral qualms.
The situation will not occur.
Hahaha what was the last Mortal Kombat you played? MK2?
I've seen the kill animations from the newest MK, That is cartoon gore, in the same way that Ash Vs Evil Dead is cartoon Gore. There's nothing realistic about it and you don't need real references to do that stuff, except maybe a few anatomy books
That involves most of the army veterans suffering from PTSD you know. All the young patriotic souls "answering the call" to defend their country against made-up international claims ending in a country where they are the agressors and treated as such. Where they come to the conclusion that the "enemy" is just a farmer trying to survive or a family father protecting his kin or where they are forced to commit war crimes under order which they dont agree with. They realize they dont want to be there and whoever they are fighting isnt demonic or "the enemy" but just another fellow human being doing what he "has to do" to survive. But they cannot stop, cannot drop their arms, cannot deny a command (well they can, you should check what happens to army personnel that denies an order in a combat situation) so they endure.....and develop PTSD.
Without going deeper into a potentially political argument I find the lack of empathy toward affected people concerning and a bit shocking. Too much disregard or ignorance from people who either never experienced the trauma or the symptom or are simply unable to view something from a different point of view. And claiming that you did experience this doesnt strengthen your argument because if thats the case you should be able to sympathize in the first place.
People make mistakes all the time. What I quoted from your comment means that you will not forgive mistakes and expect consequences and punishment to its fullest leaving people without help, without sympathy and without a way out. I m not sure thats a way of treatment among each other that will foster or support a society.
In a yes/no situation the possible answers are rather limited. If you dont commit to a "no" you cant really deny a "yes" either. He asked a question which you denied to answer clearly and when he took a wild guess based on your round-about reply you put him on ignore.
I get that some questions are difficult or even offensive to you but I feel the escalation this thread experienced could ve been prevented if you just ve dealt with the question. And I m not talking about the question itself here (which I would need to read up on anyway....) but your reaction to it. I got the feeling I ll get a flaming retort or end up on somebodies ignore list for this.....
Back to the issue. Why do video games "need" to become more realistic and gross picturing violence to a degree that makes it difficult to differentiate between artificial and reality? Video games of old (Doom) have managed to claim the "most brutal and gory video game in history" with splashes of red pixels and rather primitive displays. And it managed to shock and fascinate the audiance back then. Because it was a new "high" on the market. But since then people have become accustomed to video violence often following gameplay from the perspective of a murderer, hitman or psychopath. Sensitivity has been dulled over the years where more and more extreme pictures or situations have to be provided to draw a reaction. Mortal Kombat certainly has evolved in that direction taking pride onto their "finishing move" repertoire making it the games focus. Each game from the series has become more realistic in terms of graphic and more extreme in terms of displayed violence. Like clockwork.
And gamers buying these games will maybe be shocked for a while but eventually get used to the level of violence displayed and expect an "up" for the next game. The company in question has identified the audiences desires and try to fulfill them....extreme violence being one of the factors in the Mortal Kombat series.
I am no stranger to the MK games and I can say I ve been fascinated with the display of gore and violence to the point of disgust. The game is available to me and I would play it if I had it at home realizing full well its a video game (so I wouldnt develop PTSD...) but learning that these games are created on the back of other peoples mental health...I simply dont agree or would deny change because it threatens "my entertainment".
And games dont "need" realistic violence and gore in order to enthrall the audience. Ubisofts Odyssey manages to entertain without flopping intestines or amputations or realistic displays of pain on faces. When we say "its just a video game" that doesnt mean that every video game can create more extreme examples under that protection. Its rather a reminder that there is a line at some point. And in todays world some games step over that line in order to make profit.
This is opening up a whole new can of worms but generally I agree with this statement. I have been brought up in a "manly" household. Boys dont cry, boys dont show fear, boys hit back, boys fight. Be tough and alpha all the time. And I m not and I always have been struggling with rising up to the expectations of my parents and my peers. I consider myself empthic and I rather help then destroy. I dont like violence but that doesnt mean that I wasnt a trouble maker in my youth. I ve been unfair, choleric, violent and cruel plenty.....but now years later I (hope I) am different and I am ashamed of myself when I remember back.
I believe in people's rights to privacy.
While I wouldn't grant them any control over the final use of data collected during their victimization (I believe factual knowledge and data should be freely shared with all), I would certainly try to leave as much control as possible over the degree to which that data could be tied to them in their hands.
I'd say it's possible that there are different degrees of PTSD.
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