[Video] Open letter from community to Elite Dangerous

[Stigbob]

But if you act like all your customers are like that you're not doing it right either. Nobody denies there are bad apples too.

People pull back on the comms due to the real crazies, nobody thinks its everybody.

For an extreme example there was one guy in this forum who used to constantly obsess about DBOBE's house in a frankly odd way, I think he's long gone now but he was really angry about it in a fit security lights and buy a dog sort of way.

 

[Stigbob]

Could be why Elite isn't getting love.

Other than the incoming free carrier update plus inevitable fixes and the new paid DLC you mean obviously.

 

[Ezren]

Other than the incoming free carrier update plus inevitable fixes and the new paid DLC you mean obviously.

Nothing is ever enough for some people.

 

[Rubbernuke]

2 out of ED's entire life, which if you read the rest of my post, you will see why i think it will never be enough and how there will always be more changes demanded. Tweak this, tweak that, etc. And those changes, made to satisfy PvPers, will impact PvEers as well.

No, I mean which ones? EDs had a fair amount: https://elite-dangerous.fandom.com/wiki/Version_history

Plus, if something is changed, it affects the rest of the game. Nothing lasts in isolation.

 

[operant]

Frontier is a public listed company that exists to make money (a return) for its shareholders. In this case by selling ED (the game and associated revenue streams - cosmetics, DLC, etc) to willing consumers.

I was going to say more, but I think this probably covers it.

 

[Freyar]

Make all the noise you want by all means.

But I much rather you just followed the above honest advice I referred to instead of posting that noise in the name of the “community” I am supposed to be part of and requesting signatures in an obscure and non actually traceable site.

So you'd rather not have feedback given to a service-based game, and have people buy or ignore the title.

Its far too late for that. Some people are upwards of $250 in on actual content (not cosmetics) and should be able to voice concerns and help FDEV figure out how to serve thier ongoing customer base.

I understand the long conversation can get tiresome (and I don't think a petition / change.org page is going to really help), but to try and play off criticism of a title that has ongoing development and is a SaaS is giving another company free reign to take money without being accountable.

People paid up front for a title, FDEV changes that title in a mandatory fashion, they must be held accountable for the changes.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

No, I mean which ones? EDs had a fair amount: https://elite-dangerous.fandom.com/wiki/Version_history

Plus, if something is changed, it affects the rest of the game. Nothing lasts in isolation.

Sure if something is changed it affects the rest of the game. The point i was responding to was do changes for the sake of PvP negatively impact on PvE, to which i said it can, as in the case of the great missile nerf.

Do you dispute that?

As for the patches, one was
v2.2.03 & v.1.7.03 - 10th Jan 2017

The second was somewhere close to that, but can't spot it, it was a follow up IIRC making further changed demanded by certain members of the PvP community. Might have been engineer related in part.

Unfortunately the links are broken.

 

[Siobhan]

Well, I blame the forum software then. Are you on mobile?

Nope, using a desktop browser. I dunno then.
However, that you or others have seen it doesn't help me.

Having said that, I do know what it's about as I've found the detail elsewhere, and cannot accept it let alone agree with it. These so-called community leaders are not a part of any community that I'm a part of. They do not speak for me and I'm offended that they claim to.

 

[jasonbarron]

Except you miss the point of what i was saying.

Again, i refer you to the great missile nerf of 2015.

Missile's were ridiculously over powered up until the last time I played the game, about a year ago. If fdev nerfed them I'll put that in the win column for balance.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

No, I mean which ones? EDs had a fair amount: https://elite-dangerous.fandom.com/wiki/Version_history

Plus, if something is changed, it affects the rest of the game. Nothing lasts in isolation.

2.2.03 was definitely one of them - that mainly contained rebalances of experimental effects, blueprints, etc. in ways which had been discussed in advance with at least some PvPers, brought in things like PAs doing absolute damage, military slots and MRPs to make hulltanks and hybrids a bit more viable, etc.

Can't think of a second one on that scale, though - I think the pushback on the attempted shield rebalances in 2.3 (?) may have put them off making further radical changes. Arguably lots of blueprints changed in 3.0, but not in a way that significantly affected the balance between items.

 

[jasonbarron]

AA, what patches were specifically to PvP? Are you sure you're not confusing combat/weapon balance with PvP?

 

[Oztig]

"They must be important, and their opinions matter, as they've posted a video on youtube"

I think I may have to write a letter to the times to complain about such behaviour. (thus making me no better than they are . )
Oh well, back to the Gin

Edite: What, not why !!
Forgot to add, and what the f***ing hell is an 'influencer' - what has happened to the world !!!!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Frontier is a public listed company that exists to make money (a return) for its shareholders. In this case by selling ED (the game and associated revenue streams - cosmetics, DLC, etc) to willing consumers.

I was going to say more, but I think this probably covers it.

I think one thing to say following this is that it makes sense FD will do what is best for the company, although it always seemed to me like this was a passion project for Braben, and therefore perhaps some decisions made not in line with what is best for the company.

Regardless, in that case, if they think its worth keeping ED going (which seems to be the case) and its profitable for the company, then they will be doing the best they can to maintain that. If it was a ball and chain for them, the best thing to do would be to drop it, or at least put it into maintainance mode and keep the servers running on minimum, or perhaps make an offline patch. This does not match with the upcoming fleet carriers and announcement about the 2020 update.

The logical conclusion to this is that FD are trying to do their best and believe they are doing the right thing, with some admission of mistakes made and areas they can still improve.

Assuming management want to make as much money as possible from ED, they are looking at their sales and reports from players, feedback, etc, and then taking decisions. They have been doing this for years.

The result is what we have now. Buggy updates and complaints about lack of communications.

Let that sink in for a moment people. We've had 5 years of buggy patches, complaints about lack of communications, and numerous open letters and disucsions on the forums, and yet it never changes.

While FD are probably doing what they can to improve processes, expecting this open letter to have any different result to anything in the last 5 years is being overly optimistic at best. They obviously think that in general they are doing the right thing and that thing is still generating them money.

So, despite buggy releases, Steam review bombing, open letters, complaints, etc, they continue to do well as a company, and ED remains fairly stable in terms of players year after year, which is quite interesting in itself.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Sure if something is changed it affects the rest of the game. The point i was responding to was do changes for the sake of PvP negatively impact on PvE, to which i said it can, as in the case of the great missile nerf.

Do you dispute that?

As for the patches, one was
v2.2.03 & v.1.7.03 - 10th Jan 2017

The second was somewhere close to that, but can't spot it, it was a follow up IIRC making further changed demanded by certain members of the PvP community. Might have been engineer related in part.

Unfortunately the links are broken.

Without balancing ships become too powerful and frankly silly. 10K Shield Cutter? Why do you need to even steer? No combination should ever make you invincible, PvE or PvP.

Wasn't this also the infamous patch that linked gimbals to sensors, and altered hull / shield balance and people flipped out- the changes that would have added depth to outfitting?

 

[Stigbob]

Missile's were ridiculously over powered up until the last time I played the game, about a year ago. If fdev nerfed them I'll put that in the win column for balance.

They used to be deadly as in launch a few at an unshielded target then forget about it as it was toast. But got nerfed so hard they became totally irrelevant for about three years.

They were being used by griefers to destroy ships in stations by barraging a near stationary ship from something small and disposable with missiles in every hardpoint.

All the coding, graphics, sound effects wasted just because some people got off on being a bit ish.

They are good fun again, less than they were but I frequently use non-optimal weapons just for yuks so as with shock cannons I like them.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

AA, what patches were specifically to PvP? Are you sure you're not confusing combat/weapon balance with PvP?

Where do 99% of requests for combat/weapon balances come from? Their effect on PvP or PvE?

Unless something is totally out of whack that everyone agrees it needs changing, its usually a PvP based demand for change.

Like i said, great missile nerf? Yeah, thanks PvP for causing a really nice PvE weapon to be nerfed into the ground. Force shell, a shadow of its former self, great fun for PvE, not so great for PvP. Thermal attacks? For PvE, meh, made no difference, but tragic for PvP.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Without balancing ships become too powerful and frankly silly. 10K Shield Cutter? Why do you need to even steer? No combination should ever make you invincible, PvE or PvP.

Wasn't this also the infamous patch that linked gimbals to sensors, and altered hull / shield balance and people flipped out- the changes that would have added depth to outfitting?

Probably that one. Yeah, i didn't like that. Why did that one happen? Oh yeah, beause the git gud brigade didn't like how gimballs were decent while their mad skillz with fixed were being devalued. A change that FD wasted time and effort on, just to try and appease the epeen wavers. Ugh.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Where do 99% of requests for combat/weapon balances come from? Their effect on PvP or PvE?

Unless something is totally out of whack that everyone agrees it needs changing, its usually a PvP based demand for change.

Like i said, great missile nerf? Yeah, thanks PvP for causing a really nice PvE weapon to be nerfed into the ground. Force shell, a shadow of its former self, great fun for PvE, not so great for PvP. Thermal attacks? For PvE, meh, made no difference, but tragic for PvP.

All because some crazy fools wanted to break the shield hull meta and make silent running hulltanks a thing. How dare these buffoons experiment!

 

[Stigbob]

Without balancing ships become too powerful and frankly silly. 10K Shield Cutter? Why do you need to even steer? No combination should ever make you invincible, PvE or PvP.

Wasn't this also the infamous patch that linked gimbals to sensors, and altered hull / shield balance and people flipped out- the changes that would have added depth to outfitting?

There's no difficulty slider for MMO's so you set it yourself through ship choice and outfitting.

I like my corvette-o-doom for sheer indestructible stonk, but messing about in a courier is just as much fun in different ways.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Probably that one. Yeah, i didn't like that. Why did that one happen? Oh yeah, beause the git gud brigade didn't like how gimballs were decent while their mad skillz with fixed were being devalued. A change that FD wasted time and effort on, just to try and appease the epeen wavers. Ugh.

Or, it was because it actually gave sensor grades an actual purpose? Thanks to that non-change nearly everyone fits D sensors and forgets about it. It could have been that A grade or an experimental gave chaff resistance, or that above C it actually was better. Do you see how short-shortsightedness has led to anemic outcomes? PvE should have challenging situations as well as require skill and knowledge to play to remain satisfying and not become Upgrade to Win.

epeen waver

Quite. The same people who actually know the systems inside out and are an invaluable source of information, and could tell FD exactly what needs looking at.