[Video] Open letter from community to Elite Dangerous

[Zapgun]

When a minority feel they can speak for the majority the best thing that could happen is complete disregard of that group, I hope that is what happens in this case.

And how do you know its a minority, and what makes the opinions of a minority any less valid then that of 'the majority'?

Might I suggest you correct the highlighted words to either "I" or "some"?

It would appear that a minority are, once again, speaking as a majority.

Speaking of putting words into other people's mouths, since when did 'we' immediately equate to 'the majority' - it could also mean 'we, the people who signed this petition' (or who knows what else we might mean to the author). Asking for clarification might be more constructive.

 

[Rubbernuke]

So your issue is not communication but action.

I suppose its the reverse, features that should be developed see no time, which leads to annoyance, and that CMs have to soak up the heat. But also FD should know when things need looking at- was it good communication that requests for weekly PP data went unanswered for months with no good reason to say why they stopped? Or, that bugs that wrecked the game took ages to sort out, with no real explanation or apology on the (very real) consequences they had? People have poured years into Powerplay and they saw that work go up in flames with no CM or dev apology, leading to them thinking FD don't care or even acknowledge there was an problem to begin with.

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

The whole PP situation of recent times can be summed up when Paige presented a half finished charcoal sketch of Patreus on a Frontier Xtra. I had to embarrass FD to even get a response about Powerplay feedback, after weeks of silence after the Feedback Topic ended- unless you press the issue in a sensible way, it will be swept under the carpet. However the CMs can only provide information from the devs and management, so really this is their failure and not the CMs.

I will say the only dev who communicated well on PP was Sandro, no one else has voluntary spoken the Macbeth like P word since, or shown any knowledge of PP or its mechanics and problems. His communication was excellent, here and on Discord and he is missed because of his cheerful manner that was genuine. But in the end FD have to act, and on that they have a dismal record. It was a miracle consolidation got put in, considering.

After 5 years of FD adding no new gameplay to PP, don't you think some communications on its fate is better than absolute silence, especially when community groups are involved? Is it a disconnect that the programmers and planning just don't see and have to deploy CMs to soak up, and that in the end this anger is about poor scheduling overall?

Considering PP is in the game and functional(all be it not to your liking in certain areas)why do you feel this should take priority over other elements of the game. Your idea of the perfect Elite game is different from mine.
Shouldn’t FD just make the game they want to make and effectively remove the dilemma. It’s precisely what every other games developer does.

 

[zimms]

Considering PP is in the game and functional(all be it not to your liking in certain areas)why do you feel this should take priority over other elements of the game. Your idea of the perfect Elite game is different from mine.
Shouldn’t FD just make the game they want to make and effectively remove the dilemma. It’s precisely what every other games developer does.

Slightly different question: For how many more years should other elements of the game take priority over PP?

PP players really have been waiting for crucial updates for years now. Mining or exploration were also functional before Beyond (although not to the liking of some people).

 

[VR jefranklin18]

So your issue is not communication but action.

And that is why Frontier have probably stopped asking the community for feedback via the open sessions (whatever they were called) and design discussion forums because there'll always be parts of the community that will never be satisfied

 

[Nerth]

Considering PP is in the game and functional(all be it not to your liking in certain areas)why do you feel this should take priority over other elements of the game. Your idea of the perfect Elite game is different from mine.
Shouldn’t FD just make the game they want to make and effectively remove the dilemma. It’s precisely what every other games developer does.

That ignores the existence of the Focused Feedback (remember that? That died a death didn't it) on PowerPlay which came up with some really exciting propsals for PP and made promises of "we'll look to work on this as soon as the time is right." That was a year and a half ago now and FD have been utterly silent on it. I'm convinced they have no intention to ever touch PP again now that Sando is elsewhere and just hope we all forget they ever brought it up for discussion. Hopefully they prove me wrong but when I have asked about it I'm met with "we have no plans at this time." Not even a "we want to but not right now".

This is an example of the poor communication. Just tell us one way or the other. If development on PP is dead for the forseeable then just say so and apologise for getting people's hopes up.

 

[gooddoc]

Only thing I don't understand is why Zac hasn't posted his response in the Frontier forum. After all, it is the game's Forum!

Am I missing it? Is it because all this was produced on Reddit & copied over here?

Personally, I don't use that site at all....it's not to my 'standard', but it would be good to have Zac's response posted in 'his own' Forum.

 

[babelfisch]

I suppose its the reverse, features that should be developed see no time, which leads to annoyance, and that CMs have to soak up the heat. But also FD should know when things need looking at- was it good communication that requests for weekly PP data went unanswered for months with no good reason to say why they stopped? Or, that bugs that wrecked the game took ages to sort out, with no real explanation or apology on the (very real) consequences they had? People have poured years into Powerplay and they saw that work go up in flames with no CM or dev apology, leading to them thinking FD don't care or even acknowledge there was an problem to begin with.

All valid points. But aren't these issues rather old? Apologies if I am wrong about that, I am not an expert on the PP side of things like you are. Regarding communications I would judge them by their current standard and to me it seems like it was excellent in 2019 (obviously not on PP though). It seems like an odd timing to demand better communication when they are doing a good job.

 

[Nerth]

Slightly different question: For how many more years should other elements of the game take priority over PP?

PP players really have been waiting for crucial updates for years now. Mining or exploration were also functional before Beyond (although not to the liking of some people).

And engineering
And Guardians
And the tutorials
And the ship menus
And the blue Arx button...

 

[Stigbob]

Only thing I don't understand is why Zac hasn't posted his response in the Frontier forum. After all, it is the game's Forum!

Am I missing it? Is it because all this was produced on Reddit & copied over here?

Personally, I don't use that site at all....it's not to my 'standard', but it would be good to have Zac's response posted in 'his own' Forum.

Probably noped out after the death threats started.

 

[Nerth]

All valid points. But aren't these issues rather old? Apologies if I am wrong about that, I am not an expert on the PP side of things like you are. Regarding communications I would judge them by their current standard and to me it seems like it was excellent in 2019 (obviously not on PP though). It seems like an odd timing to demand better communication when they are doing a good job.

The frustration from the people who wrote the letter and many other long-time players has been building for years. Honestly it's unprecedented for the likes of OA, StuartGT, SDC, FatHaggard from Elite Racers, Rhea etc to team up and write something like this. This is not a spontaneous reaction to recent issues but an exhaustion of patience and goodwill after literally years of the same issues over and over.

 

[Enderby]

No one in their right mind would say that it’s gone well.

 

[Rat Catcher]

And how do you know its a minority, and what makes the opinions of a minority any less valid then that of 'the majority'?


Speaking of putting words into other people's mouths, since when did 'we' immediately equate to 'the majority' - it could also mean 'we, the people who signed this petition' (or who knows what else we might mean to the author). Asking for clarification might be more constructive.

A minority of players frequent this forum (look at the total membership against sum of copies of the game sold) so any opinion given here will be by a minority - think about it.
An even smaller, but vociferous, minority have signed a petition...

When the minority intend to influence the majority, just by being persistent, such action should be effectively ignored bar noting such discontent - satisfied?

As for putting words in someone's mouth - a request to a minority to not incorporate a view as if it was that of the majority, what else could one do bar suggest an alternative descriptor?

 

[VR jefranklin18]

The frustration from the people who wrote the letter and many other long-time players has been building for years. Honestly it's unprecedented for the likes of OA, StuartGT, SDC, FatHaggard from Elite Racers, Rhea etc to team up and write something like this. This is not a spontaneous reaction to recent issues but a final ending of patience and goodwill after literally years of the same issues over and over.

I dunno, the SDC were pretty much the poster boys for tantrum throwing because they didn't like how PvP had been implemented in the early days

 

[Stigbob]

The frustration from the people who wrote the letter and many other long-time players has been building for years. Honestly it's unprecedented for the likes of OA, StuartGT, SDC, FatHaggard from Elite Racers, Rhea etc to team up and write something like this. This is not a spontaneous reaction to recent issues but an exhaustion of patience and goodwill after literally years of the same issues over and over.

It's internet spaceships.

 

[Nerth]

It's internet spaceships.

I don't even know how to repond to such a banal comment.

 

[Riverside]

It's internet spaceships.

It's also IRL money

 

[Stigbob]

It's also IRL money

For youtubers ?.

 

[Stigbob]

I don't even know how to repond to such a banal comment.

Think of it as a reality check to the "Years of frustration".

Have you played fallout 4 ?.

 

[Thrender Grone]

And how do you know its a minority, and what makes the opinions of a minority any less valid then that of 'the majority'?


Speaking of putting words into other people's mouths, since when did 'we' immediately equate to 'the majority' - it could also mean 'we, the people who signed this petition' (or who knows what else we might mean to the author). Asking for clarification might be more constructive.

When only a couple thousand people sign a petition out of literally hundreds of thousands or even millions of customers (based on total game sales at any rate)...It's understandable why one might conclude that is a "minority" of players.

And no one is saying their opinions aren't valid, but the problem is that those opinions are often presented as facts. And some mix in ridiculous ad hominems, calling them stupid and incompetent, even suggesting that FDev is just scamming us out of money, they don't care about their game or its players, yada yada yada.

I will just say that if certain elements of the community did not use this word "we" like they breathe oxygen when they have a complaint (in other words all the time), people wouldn't need to differentiate between "we" and "I". Fact is, through their own admission or based on context, it is quite clear that some people think they speak for everyone, and those that don't agree are just "fDeV fAnBoIs". If you don't see this then you aren't paying attention.

Does this game have serious design flaws? Yes. Is this game a bug ridden mess sometimes? Yes. Do we all want to see it fixed? Yes. Do all of us agree with this strong-arm open letter tactic in which the "community" threatens to take action like boycott the game or "influencers" refusing to make more content or (lol) people threatening legal action ? Nope.

Uh oh, I'm treading closely to the edge of fanboi-dom here. Better shut up while I'm ahead.