The ADS

[MadDogMurdock]

The offer of a compromise is not a real offer when it is entirely unnecessary.
Certainly in this case, it is purely a debating point coming from those who wouldn't even use the ADS if it was there with limited functionality or not.

It's complete and utter trash-talk and nothing else - reducing the argument to black and white, either / or nonsense.

For the record, almost everyone who wants the ADS back also spent years waiting patiently (and sometimes not so patiently) for improved exploration mechanics.
That is why the backlash against the removal of the ADS is so strong and won't just fade away.
It's not because the FSS is terrible in its own right (although many think that way), it's because it does not adequately replace the ADS and has in fact made the exploration mechanics worse for many explorers.

We gave FD the benefit of the doubt time and time again, waited for Chapter 4, and got totally kicked in the nuts.

 

[Scytale]

Anyway, may as well throw some controversy in...
@Enderby , @Scytale The David Lynch version is great.
(You just have to treat it as a film in its own right, and not a cinematic version of the book )

The more the merrier !
Yeah, some great vision, ideas and sequences in Lynch's (my sig). But too much of a monument for a single movie.

 

[Faded Glory]

I know, but as I said in my post, I can't see FDev adding an option that allows you to completely bypass the FSS. I honestly think the best thing to do is to ask for changes with the FSS to make it better for your style of exploration.

Well, to be fair, you didn't think FD would make fleet carriers available for single players to own... Who knows what FD will, or won't do? None of us, and it honestly seems they don't necessarily know, they seem to develop this game by reacting to metrics rather than by any design principal.

Regarding the FSS, I have no problem or issue using it. It's very easy to use (even in VR), and very quick. In many cases I can scan a whole system now in the time it took to scan one or two bodies the old way. The problem is I don't find it terribly engaging gameplay, so I've stopped exploring.

When I did use it to explore, it was fine if I was looking for ELW, WW, AW and the like. I knew very quickly by looking at the energy spectrum if such bodies were present without having to scan anything, and then if they were I would scan the system (I don't cherry pick as it happens, and didn't under the old system either), and this was much, much quicker than doing that under the old system.

But if I decide to change my focus from looking for ELW's to looking for strangely colored gas giants (as an example), then I have to scan every gas giant in the hope that it will be 'interesting', and of course, most won't be... That's my objection, plain and simple, don't expect me to scan something to find out if it's interesting, expect me to scan something because it's interesting.

I did make a suggestion in another thread ages ago about potential upgrades to the FSS that could either populate the nav panel and be targeted (unexplored obviously) or could populate the system map (again, everything unexplored) but not be targetable. These would be mutually exclusive and should cover the desire to target and fly to bodies, or display the system graphically but still have to use the FSS to find and scan bodies if the player decides they are of interest.

 

[Cmdr Eratosthenes]

The offer of a compromise is not a real offer when it is entirely unnecessary.
Certainly in this case, it is purely a debating point coming from those who wouldn't even use the ADS if it was there with limited functionality or not.

It's complete and utter trash-talk and nothing else - reducing the argument to black and white, either / or nonsense.

For the record, almost everyone who wants the ADS back also spent years waiting patiently (and sometimes not so patiently) for improved exploration mechanics.
That is why the backlash against the removal of the ADS is so strong and won't just fade away.
It's not because the FSS is terrible in its own right (although many think that way), it's because it does not adequately replace the ADS and has in fact made the exploration mechanics worse for many explorers.

We gave FD the benefit of the doubt time and time again, waited for Chapter 4, and got totally kicked in the nuts.

23 pages & you've nailed it.

 

[WR3ND]

I think that would require significant code changes, probably a whole rewrite. The FSS doesn't take a snapshot of the system, its a live view, so if you are moving, it will be virtually impossible to use. But as it goes I would have preferred the FSS as a pop up like station services in your cockpit.


Which was what I said should be in there in the compromise. You just won't be able to target them.

The other thing I was thinking might work is just having targetable headings after the honk but not location. Not sure if this would work for some in combination with untargetable black bodies after the honk on the system map as well or not, nor for people who prefer the FSS and don't want it undermined in their perspectives.

I don't know. I'd just prefer some more options for viable spaceship space action type exploration, if you know what I mean.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Well, to be fair, you didn't think FD would make fleet carriers available for single players to own... Who knows what FD will, or won't do? None of us, and it honestly seems they don't necessarily know, they seem to develop this game by reacting to metrics rather than by any design principal.

Regarding the FSS, I have no problem or issue using it. It's very easy to use (even in VR), and very quick. In many cases I can scan a whole system now in the time it took to scan one or two bodies the old way. The problem is I don't find it terribly engaging gameplay, so I've stopped exploring.

When I did use it to explore, it was fine if I was looking for ELW, WW, AW and the like. I knew very quickly by looking at the energy spectrum if such bodies were present without having to scan anything, and then if they were I would scan the system (I don't cherry pick as it happens, and didn't under the old system either), and this was much, much quicker than doing that under the old system.

But if I decide to change my focus from looking for ELW's to looking for strangely colored gas giants (as an example), then I have to scan every gas giant in the hope that it will be 'interesting', and of course, most won't be... That's my objection, plain and simple, don't expect me to scan something to find out if it's interesting, expect me to scan something because it's interesting.

I did make a suggestion in another thread ages ago about potential upgrades to the FSS that could either populate the nav panel and be targeted (unexplored obviously) or could populate the system map (again, everything unexplored) but not be targetable. These would be mutually exclusive and should cover the desire to target and fly to bodies, or display the system graphically but still have to use the FSS to find and scan bodies if the player decides they are of interest.

This is true and shows I am not the font of all knowledge and certainly don't work for FDev (unless it's my cunning plan to shake you off the scent).

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

The other thing I was thinking might work is just having targetable headings after the honk but not location. Not sure if this would work for some in combination with untargetable black bodies after the honk on the system map as well or not, nor for people who prefer the FSS and don't want it undermined in their perspectives.

I don't know. I'd just prefer some more options for viable spaceship space action type exploration, if you know what I mean.

Yeah I do. I don't think there are any easy solutions.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Yeah I do. I don't think there are any easy solutions.

There are lots of easy solutions - but easy solutions are often a bad idea. Which hasn't stopped FDev taking the easy route in the past

Personally, I'd like some form of 'enhanced parallax' mechanism that allows me to explore the system by flying around it (not by panning the FSS around). I'm not sure how it would be implemented (unfortunately), but both the ADS and FSS are overly simplistic and require no actual skill. Parallax involves actually finding the orbital plane and looking out of the window - I'd just prefer it if icy bodies around distant brown dwarf stars showed up at more than about 500 Ls range.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

There are lots of easy solutions - but easy solutions are often a bad idea. Which hasn't stopped FDev taking the easy route in the past

Personally, I'd like some form of 'enhanced parallax' mechanism that allows me to explore the system by flying around it (not by panning the FSS around). I'm not sure how it would be implemented (unfortunately), but both the ADS and FSS are overly simplistic and require no actual skill. Parallax involves actually finding the orbital plane and looking out of the window - I'd just prefer it if icy bodies around distant brown dwarf stars showed up at more than about 500 Ls range.

There are no easy solutions that will please everyone that does not need a complete re-write of the FSS or a complete bypass of it.

FDev are not going to remove the FSS and I very much doubt that they will add in a module that allows you to completely bypass it. So there are no easy complete solutions. There are ways to make the FSS system better for more types of exploration, but it still isn't going to cater for everyone.

 

[Burke]

There are no easy solutions that will please everyone that does not need a complete re-write of the FSS or a complete bypass of it.

You mean the people who want to prevent others playing with the ADS wont be happy? I wonder if their opinions are really valid. After all we were here first, it is the people who were enjoying the ADS who have been wronged in all this.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You mean the people who want to prevent others playing with the ADS wont be happy? I wonder if their opinions are really valid. After all we were here first, it is the people who were enjoying the ADS who have been wronged in all this.

Sweet jesus man, what is your bloody problem. This is in relation to that it is highly unlikely FDev will add in a module that will bypass the FSS. So please stop with these stupid comments.

 

[Mohrgan]

You mean the people who want to prevent others playing with the ADS wont be happy? I wonder if their opinions are really valid. After all we were here first, it is the people who were enjoying the ADS who have been wronged in all this.

Wronged! Lol. Sympathy getting lower with every post. Long live the FSS!

Oh, and I forgot... More Outrage for the Outrage gods!

Live loud, and rage on Commanders.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

I did explore with ADS, I also do explore with FSS and find latter superior. No need to get half baked ADS mechanism back. But thats just my opinion.

 

[Burke]

Sweet jesus man, what is your bloody problem.

I cant play the game i bought cause the FSS made it bad.

Wronged! Lol. Sympathy getting lower with every post. Long live the FSS!

What is the confusion here? Your sympathy doesnt come into it. Its about right and wrong, about not telling people to leave and trying to include them.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I cant play the game i bought cause the FSS made it bad.

And what the hell has that got to do with what I was saying. Absolutely Nothing. Reply if it is relevant, it would be useful.

 

[Burke]

No need to be defensive. I didnt accuse you of anything...

Just saying that perhaps people should be less interested in stopping others having fun is all.

 

[Mohrgan]

What is the confusion here? Your sympathy doesnt come into it. Its about right and wrong, about not telling people to leave and trying to include them.

I just cannot see it that way. You should consider the empathy of your audience, when you are looking for support for a change. I never suggest people stop playing, just to stop complaining. The entirety of the E|D community were screaming for an up-date to the exploration mechanic. Well, we got one. Things change, some adapt. Those that refuse to adapt do it to them selves.

 

[Burke]

I just cannot see it that way. You should consider the empathy of your audience, when you are looking for support for a change. I never suggest people stop playing, just to stop complaining. The entirety of the E|D community were screaming for an up-date to the exploration mechanic. Well, we got one. Things change, some adapt. Those that refuse to adapt do it to them selves.

You were telling me how unpopular i was not so long ago. Is that the empathy you speak of?

My point is this. If you have any right to object at all to the ADS coming back, then the people who want the ADS back have the greater right. If anybody has any rights in this at all then those who want the ADS back have the moral high ground.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Every constantly evolving game tends to drop some old ways of doing things, and implement new ones. And of course change alienates some people. I do not like all changes happening in ED, but at this point none of them are last straws for me.

 

[Sir.Tj]

Let's just put the handbags down please and step away from the dancefloor.