I'm not advocating taking away the current "end experience" from people who like it -
Even though that's what was done to me when the ADS was unnecessarily removed.
The ADS
- Thread starter Demsit
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I'm not advocating taking away the current "end experience" from people who like it -
Even though that's what was done to me when the ADS was unnecessarily removed.
You are good at building consensus
I too realize that a civil discussion with you is pointless
Pot calling the kettle black it seems. I suggest you look in the mirror when you say something like that as you are describing yourself.
Well i'll stick in my 2 cents.
Went exploring before the FSS was introduced and generally felt that just honk - see all the planets - decide whether anything was worthwhile to visit closer - realise it is around another star 400kls away and just move onto next system.
Then went exploring when the FSS was introduced and found it was better - I can see more details - and also see what else is available with a very small amount of FSS use - yes not as quick as just honking but so what - so yeah maybe there is an elw around that second star - but I can also see a landable moon with some jumponium element available and ooh maybe some biologicals as well - now that 400kls ride (as lets be honest flying that far in sc cannot really be classed as needing any skill until right at the end) is suddenly worthwhile as the FSS has revealed a number of interesting items rather than just me trying to guess whether that elw is an elw or just a planet which looks like one.
Went exploring before the FSS was introduced and generally felt that just honk - see all the planets - decide whether anything was worthwhile to visit closer - realise it is around another star 400kls away and just move onto next system.
Then went exploring when the FSS was introduced and found it was better - I can see more details - and also see what else is available with a very small amount of FSS use - yes not as quick as just honking but so what - so yeah maybe there is an elw around that second star - but I can also see a landable moon with some jumponium element available and ooh maybe some biologicals as well - now that 400kls ride (as lets be honest flying that far in sc cannot really be classed as needing any skill until right at the end) is suddenly worthwhile as the FSS has revealed a number of interesting items rather than just me trying to guess whether that elw is an elw or just a planet which looks like one.
Ok then - let's just get to the bottom line.
If the current configuration was maintained for the Discovery scanner so you could play as you do now and nothing would change for you, then there wouldn't be any objection on your part if others were able to purchase an ADS or upgrade to one through Engineering?
Or is your only real argument 'Everybody has to play the way I do"?
I've never seen anything presented on this topic previously that doesn't just boil down to this eventually.
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The reason why people want to avoid the fss is because in a number of core scenarios, the motive to fly this is diminished to undesirable.
How about this for all the naysayers.. the fss would be okay if they removed the tag and the dss info from using it. That would be fine too. Busywork and imaginations still in tact.
It’s such rubbish.. ignoring my own preferences, it would make sense to get the tag, but definitely not the dss info. It’s an optical telescope that gets blocked by objects. Light doesn’t do complete scans including the back of objects etc.
I wonder how people pretend the magical unicorn optical telescope scanner detecting biology on bodies hundreds of thousands of light seconds away. Easy to pretend right...
How about this for all the naysayers.. the fss would be okay if they removed the tag and the dss info from using it. That would be fine too. Busywork and imaginations still in tact.
It’s such rubbish.. ignoring my own preferences, it would make sense to get the tag, but definitely not the dss info. It’s an optical telescope that gets blocked by objects. Light doesn’t do complete scans including the back of objects etc.
I wonder how people pretend the magical unicorn optical telescope scanner detecting biology on bodies hundreds of thousands of light seconds away. Easy to pretend right...
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I’m neither pro-FSS or anti-ADS. I just figure the ADS has been deleted and the FSS is still in development. For that reason it’s hard try to compare the two. One is completely finished and the other isn’t.
I’m aware that Fdev said the ADS is never coming back and I imagine they’re not interested in restating that point every time this subject comes up so that leaves the 2 groups of people in this thread to argue it out. This in turn produces claims that the pro-FSS group are forcing others to ‘play their way’ which is unfair because they’re not, Fdev are.
So I do have some sympathy for those that feel the game was ruined for them by the removal of the ADS, I imagine it feels quite unfair but by steps, blaming other players for that also seems unfair.
It might be an idea for the pro-FSS people to just let these threads rise without commenting on them. I believe the reality will be that they will get filed away like the ‘Can I have a Cobra Mk IV?’ threads, the ‘Fdev, you need to sort out PP’ threads or the ‘Open Only’ threads. In the end only Fdev will make the changes (not the players). Their lack of responses to those threads would indicate they’re not interested.
Shall we all have a hug?
I’m aware that Fdev said the ADS is never coming back and I imagine they’re not interested in restating that point every time this subject comes up so that leaves the 2 groups of people in this thread to argue it out. This in turn produces claims that the pro-FSS group are forcing others to ‘play their way’ which is unfair because they’re not, Fdev are.
So I do have some sympathy for those that feel the game was ruined for them by the removal of the ADS, I imagine it feels quite unfair but by steps, blaming other players for that also seems unfair.
It might be an idea for the pro-FSS people to just let these threads rise without commenting on them. I believe the reality will be that they will get filed away like the ‘Can I have a Cobra Mk IV?’ threads, the ‘Fdev, you need to sort out PP’ threads or the ‘Open Only’ threads. In the end only Fdev will make the changes (not the players). Their lack of responses to those threads would indicate they’re not interested.
Shall we all have a hug?
I pretty much agree - but I don't think FD made the decision to eliminate the ADS in a vacuum. There was pretty intense debate before it was decided.
As I've said - I've pretty much done enough exploration so it's not a major topic for me to be invested in, other than as forum entertainment, but just because FD may no longer have an interest in re-visiting the issue doesn't meant that it was a good decision. There were quite a few veteran explorers that bailed out after the change and haven't been seen or heard from since.
Driving away long time participants didn't then, and doesn't now seem like a good idea.
Everyone could have had what they wanted and everyone could have had more options for the way they want to explore. It is unfortunate that FD didn't do that.
As explained above - The ADS could be added back as an upgrade purchase (in game credits) or as an engineering option and no one would have to give up the way they do things now if they don't want to upgrade.
The FSS/ADS debate is a perfect example why Frontier can't drastically improve the game in any meaningful way. Now please hit me with the fanboy bat.
In my opinion neither system is ideal but the current at least tries to be about exploration while the old one was just ridiculous. I think it would make more sense to suggest improvements to the current system than demanding that the old ways get restored.
For me the FSS has two major problems:
1. Scanning a system with 45 bodies is a chore.
2. The FSS is basically just the same as the honk - scoop system with additional clicks: honk - scoop - click click click.
I have no idea how to improve it though.
The ADS has one major problem:
1. It's stupid.
In my opinion neither system is ideal but the current at least tries to be about exploration while the old one was just ridiculous. I think it would make more sense to suggest improvements to the current system than demanding that the old ways get restored.
For me the FSS has two major problems:
1. Scanning a system with 45 bodies is a chore.
2. The FSS is basically just the same as the honk - scoop system with additional clicks: honk - scoop - click click click.
I have no idea how to improve it though.
The ADS has one major problem:
1. It's stupid.
Not much of one no. But I doubt Fdev would agree to it though.
If you had actually read this thread, you would know that isn't true.
You haven't looked hard enough then.
How? I fly much more in systems with the FSS and also explore more systems too.
I have said for a long time that the FSS shows too much information. I would much prefer if some of it was put back into the DSS. As to the tags I don't see why they would need to be removed. We have other tags which are generally more valuable which requires space flight to get (first mapped by). Not that I am that bothered.
I wouldn't call it rubbish, thats a bit too far, but on the whole I agree, the FSS gives too much information on the planet.
The fact we can virtually do this now, today in real life, its not much of a stretch that they will be able to do so over 1000 years in the future.
Also why do you have to describe it as "magical unicorn optical telescope scanner", it makes you look like a child. And what is funny is that you call it that but you are fine with the one hit wonder of the ADS.
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I like this post.The FSS/ADS debate is a perfect example why Frontier can't drastically improve the game in any meaningful way. Now please hit me with the fanboy bat.
In my opinion neither system is ideal but the current at least tries to be about exploration while the old one was just ridiculous. I think it would make more sense to suggest improvements to the current system than demanding that the old ways get restored.
For me the FSS has two major problems:
1. Scanning a system with 45 bodies is a chore.
2. The FSS is basically just the same as the honk - scoop system with additional clicks: honk - scoop - click click click.
I have no idea how to improve it though.
The ADS has one major problem:
1. It's stupid.
You correctly identify the issue with regard to the FSS (keeping in mind the obvious disclaimer it's your personal opinion which I happen to share, for other players the mileage may vary and all that jazz). For the ADS however, you're less specific. "It's stupid"
I think this might be the cause of you judging both systems in itself. Just the ADS, or just the FSS. Combine them and the issues you (we) have with the FSS, and you may even say the issue with the ADS is/are lessened. Not resolved, because your 2 would still be an issue.
Scanning systems with 45 bodies is a chore.Even worse if you just jumped from another system with a significant amount of bodies, "here we go again!". In the old system I looked forward to new systems, and the number of bodies couldn't be high enough. In the FSS I dread new systems. A big problem here (again, I will keep hammering on this, for me, this is my personal experience with the mechanism, reasonable people may disagree since game experiences are subjective) is we have no indication besides the inadequate FSS spectrum to get an idea what kind of system it is. If we were to have a general picture of a system, without any details per planet as you used to get in the way the old ADS worked, you could decide this system of 45 bodies was not worth your time, while another system with 45 bodies could be interesting enough to spend your time on.
The ADS is stupid. I agree in as much as the ADS being the end-all, without any follow-up is stupid. But having the ADS (system map) which you could use to base a decision on, is this system worth investigating, simply as a starting point, is not stupid. In fact, it makes perfect sense because it reveals the largest scale we're investigating: the system. It's a perfectly reasonable step 1. What kind of system are we in. Followed by the steps: what kind of planets are in this system and finally, what can we find on the surface of these planets.
The FSS doesn't bother with the: "what kind of system are we in" question, it goes straight to the planets question. And for clarity, when I say: what kind of system, I don't mean: one that has an ELW in it. In effect the FSS has flattened the exploration experience.
edit, edit, edit: for me!
So don't fit an ADS - problem solved.
I like the idea behind the FSS, it stopped the tedium of flying up to every planet and wait for the scan (which for me was mind numbing). But in reality the execution of the "gameplay" aspect of the FSS is almost as mind numbing if I'm honest. It's not "fun", it's not "challenging".....the only word that does it justice for me is "meh"...it's a "meh" mechanic. Neither bad (for me) nor good. I've just done a couple of weeks of heavy exploring and got to Polo Harbour, but I'm struggling to motivate myself to get back out again and primarily it's because I just don't find the FSS "fun". It's an incredibly efficient money making system thats for sure as I'm closing in on my 4th Billion since the FSS update dropped (and I've only played in two "spurts" this year)....but I just don't understand how anyone could "enjoy" the FSS. Also it makes me sick initially, which is not good...then I get used to it, then I don't expore for a few weeks/months and I try again and get sick again. I don't envy FD on the subject as I'm clueless as to how to make it more engaging for me let alone others. But I see no reason (other than technical reasons of course) that the ADS should not be returned (with limited info?) for those that enjoyed using it.
I am being a child. Im taking part in a futile discussion. So childish. It doesnt matter to frontier either except my future arx potential.
Not exactly, its only the composition of the atmosphere (and by inference its composition), its mass, distance from the parent star and orbit characteristics. There's no poi identification. Maybe if there was alot of methane we found aliens but that hasnt happened yet. Think we're looking on mars atm.
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No, you're missing a very important event..
During beta some of us cough were a little adverse, but equally so many people provided on topic suggestions on how the fss could be improved.. and many of them were for aspects of the system that you could argue were particularly weak. People did screenshot mockups and everything.
I think the truth this frontier wont drastically improve the game in any meaningful way. Or its a different interpretation of cant that's not polite to say.
In the end, neither the ADS nor the FSS solved (or even improved upon) the original problem: having nothing to do while exploring, besides sightseeing. have you all wondered that, with 4 billion systems, who knows how many billions of planets, almost 4 years after Horizons launched, there is still not a single reason (from a exploration gameplay perspective) to even land on a planet?
Neither system solves the actual issue, that after the initial step, seeing what planets are there, there is still absolutely nothing to do, only a miniscule amount of things to find, and very little if anything at all to interact with.
With the ADS, you opened the door, and could look inside but do and touch nothing. The FSS just added lockpicking to open the door, so you then could look inside but still do and touch nothing. This is why is might feel satisfying, a step forward or an improvement to people who are into the "lockpicking" on it's own, but feel like just a pointless chore and an actual step backwards to people whose interest was to finally be able to properly explore the house, open the closets and the drawers, investigate the basement, etc.
I personally couldn't give a rat's arx if a particular ice ball is more to the left or more to the right. What I wanted was to have compelling reasons to investigate that ice ball, land of the ice ball, investigate signals in the ice ball, perhaps find something on the iceball, bring stuff for science from that iceball. Locating the iceballs to me is merely a starting point, not the end all. I might be able to put up with the FSS if then it enabled potential hours of gameplay in the system, but never as an end in itself.
Neither system solves the actual issue, that after the initial step, seeing what planets are there, there is still absolutely nothing to do, only a miniscule amount of things to find, and very little if anything at all to interact with.
With the ADS, you opened the door, and could look inside but do and touch nothing. The FSS just added lockpicking to open the door, so you then could look inside but still do and touch nothing. This is why is might feel satisfying, a step forward or an improvement to people who are into the "lockpicking" on it's own, but feel like just a pointless chore and an actual step backwards to people whose interest was to finally be able to properly explore the house, open the closets and the drawers, investigate the basement, etc.
I personally couldn't give a rat's arx if a particular ice ball is more to the left or more to the right. What I wanted was to have compelling reasons to investigate that ice ball, land of the ice ball, investigate signals in the ice ball, perhaps find something on the iceball, bring stuff for science from that iceball. Locating the iceballs to me is merely a starting point, not the end all. I might be able to put up with the FSS if then it enabled potential hours of gameplay in the system, but never as an end in itself.
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I didn't say you were childish. I said it makes you sound childish. There is a difference.
True and maybe its just not a telescope we use either. Do you not think that biological and geological POI will give off gases what can be detected. Its not that much of a stretch of the imagination. You complain about that but find it fine that a press of a button for 5 seconds detects every object in the system and gives you it's precise locations.
Your fine with one utterly ridiculous mechanic, but not fine with a somewhat less ridiculous mechanic. It's what is called double standards.
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