The ADS

[Bryan K]

I can clearly see Ziggy, Askavir, WR3ND, Burke and Enderby's noses

But "See beyond your own nose" clearly also applies to those refusing to accept the return of the ADS because it spoils their headcanon.

Frankly, you’d need a lot more noses to even have a chance of changing FDev’s mind. If the entire forum was up in arms over the removal of the ADS, then that would help, but the simple fact is that’s not the case. It never was. Going off of the previous threads, most people are willing to accept the loss of the ADS. Quite a few even embrace said loss.

There are always people who will be upset when a feature changes or is removed altogether, but most people are able to adapt, rather than cling to the futile hope that a major corporation will bend to meet the needs of the few, rather than the needs of the many.

When SWG went through it’s notorious overhaul back in the day, it was plenty upsetting. I basically had years of progress reset. Did I go to the SOE forums and moan about it? No. I adapted, came to accept and even enjoy the new system, and played for years more until they shut the servers off.

 

[Scytale]

Frankly, you’d need a lot more noses to even have a chance of changing FDev’s mind. If the entire forum was up in arms over the removal of the ADS, then that would help, but the simple fact is that’s not the case. It never was. Going off of the previous threads, most people are willing to accept the loss of the ADS. Quite a few even embrace said loss.

There are always people who will be upset when a feature changes or is removed altogether, but most people are able to adapt, rather than cling to the futile hope that a major corporation will bend to meet the needs of the few, rather than the needs of the many.

When SWG went through it’s notorious overhaul back in the day, it was plenty upsetting. I basically had years of progress reset. Did I go to the SOE forums and moan about it? No. I adapted, came to accept and even enjoy the new system, and played for years more until they shut the servers off.

Adapt ???
Hey ! Gonna tell you a secret !
ED is supposed to be a game !
Yes, I swear .

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Frankly, you’d need a lot more noses to even have a chance of changing FDev’s mind. If the entire forum was up in arms over the removal of the ADS, then that would help, but the simple fact is that’s not the case. It never was. Going off of the previous threads, most people are willing to accept the loss of the ADS. Quite a few even embrace said loss.

There are always people who will be upset when a feature changes or is removed altogether, but most people are able to adapt, rather than cling to the futile hope that a major corporation will bend to meet the needs of the few, rather than the needs of the many.

When SWG went through it’s notorious overhaul back in the day, it was plenty upsetting. I basically had years of progress reset. Did I go to the SOE forums and moan about it? No. I adapted, came to accept and even enjoy the new system, and played for years more until they shut the servers off.

I'm not expecting FDev to change their mind. The best I can hope for is that they improve the FSS to make it more flexible and less onerous to use. Oh, and fix the bugs too.

Nonetheless, whilst the number of people requesting the return of the ADS is small, it's significantly larger than the number of people insisting that it SHOULDN'T come back, so by reinstating it FDev would still be in a winning situation, with only a very small cost in players.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

There is a simple reason for that: The smaller group has a vital interest to propagate their agenda while the majority quite rightfully realises that there's nothing to fight for and nothing to defend. I feel a bit guilty to indirectly support their case just by posting here and bumping this thread up. I'd be really curious of how this thread would look like if only populated by the ADS supporters. Quite amusing I guess...

The majority wouldn't give a if the ADS was brought back or not.

 

[Hanerib]

Lore? What lore?

 

[Thatchinho]

I'm amused by the way we're having two conversations in the same thread and simultaneously bickering and (semi-)agreeing with each other.

The real issue I have with Analysis mode is that they applied it to the SRV. Given that for biological and geological POIs the routine is invariably "scan it, the shoot bits off it" having to switch mode in the middle is just silly.

Powerplay was a good idea badly implemented and integrated.
Engineering was a good idea let down by grind and the roulette wheel.
Mining and the DSS seem like poor ideas to begin with - the DSS especially.

I look back on the effort put into the 'Unknown Artifacts' and the hidden clues and behavior they contained, and conpare that with the cookie-cutter POIs we have now and I can clearly see the trajectory that ED has taken, and I despair.

The UA and UP stuff was great!

With a condition though - it was great if you were in the know. For people that weren’t in the know? Well... ‘no depth, etc, etc.’ I guess.

And it remains as so.

Look at all the detail that’s there in the Guardian stuff. How many people actually look at that detail?

Unfortunately, the answer shows why things might move away from that kind of stuff.

 

[Thatchinho]

"Putting in half-baked features with the vague intention of updating them later" is Fdev's middle name, so you may be right.

See my other post for detailed criticism of the Codex.

Yeah, saw it afterwards, and added an edit to the post. - Too late tho I guess!

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

hmm, just because you say so?

No, because there are only two reasonable inferences to make when people don't express an opinion:

1. They have no opinion
2. There opinions are proportional to those of people who do express an opinion

It's certainly not valid to assume that they all silently hold whatever opinion you want them to hold.

Since the ADS-reinstatement argument has been going on for over a year, it's reasonable to assume that anyone who feels strongly about it has made their opinion known. So, since the majority of forum posters haven't said they're for or against ADS-reinstatement it's clear that the majority, as I said, don't give a

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

The UA and UP stuff was great!

With a condition though - it was great if you were in the know. For people that weren’t in the know? Well... ‘no depth, etc, etc.’ I guess.

And it remains as so.

Look at all the detail that’s there in the Guardian stuff. How many people actually look at that detail?

Unfortunately, the answer shows why things might move away from that kind of stuff.

Overall, I agree - the secrets were too obscure, and should have been more accessible within the game.

Rather than just abandoning them and spoonfeeding us the information (as the DSS and to some extent the Codex do) FDev could have given us some science/research gameplay (like the old Ram Tah missions, but with better tools). The fact that they evidently don't care about that kind of stuff any more speaks volumes.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

… Going off of the previous threads, most people are willing to accept the loss of the ADS. …

I fear the main reason why so few get upset by the removal of the ADS might be, because so few really care about exploration.

Just look at all the threads about how grindy it is to get the 5000 ly for Palin.
The threads from commenters who don't understand the difference between a completely unexplored system and one that got scanned and the data handed in.
The quick reaction from FDev after people realized what consequences the removal of the ADS might have for them and the subsequent re-introduction of the ADS for already explored systems as a way to bring the community together (perfect PR ).

Those participating in these FSS vs. ADS threads are the few who really care about exploration - sadly sitting on opposite sides of an insurmountable gorge.

 

[Bryan K]

I'm not expecting FDev to change their mind. The best I can hope for is that they improve the FSS to make it more flexible and less onerous to use. Oh, and fix the bugs too.

Nonetheless, whilst the number of people requesting the return of the ADS is small, it's significantly larger than the number of people insisting that it SHOULDN'T come back, so by reinstating it FDev would still be in a winning situation, with only a very small cost in players.

May want to peruse some of those old 3.3 threads, then. The anti-ADS crowd is sizeable. That’s why we got our way. The pro-ADS side even lost a lot of supporters after FDev made their call, since the more mature individuals accepted it. Others simply moved on with their lives like normal people.

There’s fighting for change, and there’s being a sore loser. At least 3 of the pro-ADS folks here have chosen the latter, and are thusly not being taken seriously.

 

[Thatchinho]

No, because there are only two reasonable inferences to make when people don't express an opinion:

1. They have no opinion
2. There opinions are proportional to those of people who do express an opinion

It's certainly not valid to assume that they all silently hold whatever opinion you want them to hold.

Since the ADS-reinstatement argument has been going on for over a year, it's reasonable to assume that anyone who feels strongly about it has made their opinion known. So, since the majority of forum posters haven't said they're for or against ADS-reinstatement it's clear that the majority, as I said, don't give a

Counter-point - it’s also reasonable to assume that as FD have already made their statement on it, most people who are against ADS re-instatement are doing the sensible thing and not touching these threads with a barge pole. Because ultimately, why would they bother?

Edit - apologies @DrewCarnegie - seems you’ve had a load of negative replies at the same time. Was just trying to make a sensible point in a civil manner, but it seems more like a pile on when I look at it in the thread - sorry about that!

 

[M00ka]

I have tried to keep my nose out of this fight this time, it is just the same handful of people saying the say thing (this goes for both sides of the argument BTW) and is well frankly boring and kind of childish.

But it did get me thinking, all this talk of how the introduction of the FSS destroying exploration as we know it, and how universally despised the FSS is (according to some). So I decided to see what the experts think, those whose main focus in the game is exploration, yep I went and had a look at the Exploration sub-forum. The first thing that struck me as strange is that the first 10 threads weren't complaints about the FSS. In fact there wasn't an anti-FSS titled thread on the first page, nor on the second or third or fourth or fifth.

Now I am not saying that there may be individual posts in any of those threads that were not supportive of the FSS, but if the new system (the FSS) was as bad as some here are saying, why isn't it a hot topic amongst those who would be using it the most - the Explorers.

Maybe this thread (and any future FSS/ADS threads) should be moved to the Exploration sub-forum, so those who have a interest in it can give their opinions.

 

[askavir]

not this mini revolution of a handful of disgruntled s.

Calling people s from behind a screen.. How bold...

 

[Burke]

In fact there wasn't an anti-FSS titled thread on the first page, nor on the second or third or fourth or fifthve a interest in it can give their opinions.

Thats cause if you put one in there they tell you to get out. Its polite not to spam their forum with this. If you really want an "expert" opinion ask the longest flying explorers what they think, the circumnavigators and people with high system counts.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

May want to peruse some of those old 3.3 threads, then. The anti-ADS crowd is sizeable. That’s why we got our way. The pro-ADS side even lost a lot of supporters after FDev made their call, since the more mature individuals accepted it. Others simply moved on with their lives like normal people.

There’s fighting for change, and there’s being a sore loser. At least 3 of the pro-ADS folks here have chosen the latter, and are thusly not being taken seriously.

I've been active in all the ADS/FSS threads since the original livestream.

My impression was that the majority of posters wanted the FSS over the ADS. At that stage there was very little talk of having both.

The anti-ADS crowd got their way because the decision had already been taken by FDev - not by weight of numbers.

 

[Burke]

The anti-ADS crowd got their way because the decision had already been taken by FDev - not by weight of numbers.

Yes very much this. First i heard of the FSS was somebody complaining on here. I couldnt believe it when i seen what it was.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Counter-point - it’s also reasonable to assume that as FD have already made their statement on it, most people who are against ADS re-instatement are doing the sensible thing and not touching these threads with a barge pole. Because ultimately, why would they bother?

Are you saying Max, Pico and Indigo aren't being sensible?

Your argument applies equally to pro-ADS people, and to people who don't care. Why would they bother posting?

Inferring people's opinions from their silence is what people do when they've lost a referendum.

 

[M00ka]

Thats cause if you put one in there they tell you to get out. Its polite not to spam their forum with this. If you really want an "expert" opinion ask the longest flying explorers what they think, the circumnavigators and people with high system counts.

You mean like those in the Explorer's forum who are talking about their ultra-long trips and circumnavigating the galaxy? Those people? Or are you saying that those that post in the Explorers forum aren't experts or true explorers?

 

[Burke]

true explorers?

I guess i mean the ones that stopped playing cause of the FSS. There sure are some troopers out there.