Elite not very dangerous ?

Around the time of that video there were still "save points" mentioned in the FAQ.

Because the offline game would have had them.

Have you ever scanned a compromised nav beacon with cargo in your ship's hold? Give it a go and let us know how you did there.

This is going significantly out of one's way to ask for trouble and most non-handicapped medium or larger multi-purpose vessels can still destroy ships in most CNBs faster than they'll be replaced.

the most dangerous thing in ED is forgetting to ask docking permission

You have 90 seconds to leave the docking tube. Even a Cutter with 700 tons of cargo and unEngineered D-rated drives can do this without overt difficulty. Most of my ships can do it before they even get fined.

I think when PvE gets too easy it's time to PvP.

I consider it a problem that I am able to tell the difference.

Anyway, having to go looking for trouble still presents an issue. Yes, I can take a lone vessel to a hotspot and dive into random low wakes and pick fights where my CMDR is out numbered, or fly around in SC until I'm pulled by a wing that can turn any single ship into scrap in short order if I'm playing a suicidal character, but I shouldn't have to.

Organic (non-contrived) PvP, while still present, has fallen in frequency and quality substantially, probably due to nearly every relevant mechanism becoming increasingly stacked against it. Four years ago, I was being pulled by pirates or bounty hunters fairly regularly and getting into some good scraps, for reasons that had some contextual relationship to the wider game. Now, people rarely even bother because it's usually a total waste of time. It's gone from a half-dozen times a day sort of thing to something that happens once every 3-6 months. It's gone from being mostly optional, to completely optional, and of course no one would believably opt-in to being a victim.
 
Organic (non-contrived) PvP, while still present, has fallen in frequency and quality substantially, probably due to nearly every relevant mechanism becoming increasingly stacked against it. Four years ago, I was being pulled by pirates or bounty hunters fairly regularly and getting into some good scraps, for reasons that had some contextual relationship to the wider game. Now, people rarely even bother because it's usually a total waste of time. It's gone from a half-dozen times a day sort of thing to something that happens once every 3-6 months. It's gone from being mostly optional, to completely optional, and of course no one would believably opt-in to being a victim.

Yep people will only opt in if its fun. If enough players get their kicks from deliberately making it not fun and its optional the outcome is predictable.

I've met two real pirates in five years, at the same time I have a blocklist full of incredibly tedious station griefers.

No wonder they get lonely and demand the introduction of open only. They stood on the side weeing into the pool and are surprised nobody will willingly go swimming with them.
 
I'd love system security status to mean something, A poor Anarchy system = dangerous, A rich, high tech Democracy system = safe with all of the risk v reward gameplay that would entail. This was brought up in a live stream and they said they didn't want to restrict any systems from players who weren't into combat...so instead we get vanilla systems, all the same apart from the name.
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FD staff really said this?

For Elite, with its pedigree going back to the original 1984 versions, there is simply no facepalm big enough to do this justice.
 
I don't mean to complain … but … is it me, or is Elite Dangerous now, not very dangerous at all?

If someone from FD reads this, can you please turn the threat up level a bit?

Apart from very fixed, defined, scenarios (i.e. you have to go looking for trouble...) the game is kind of boring. It would be nice if the danger came to me sometimes :)

Currently one of my favourite mission techniques is to stack a lot of pirate assassination missions, as this forces a lot of random(ish) pirate encounters. But this only works if I plan on going to the systems where those missions are based.

More random encounters please! I'd welcome a few "NPC griefers" from time to time … just anything to break up the boredom of going from A>B :)

IMHO it would go a long way to making the game world feel a bit more alive.
Yeah, if you have a little engineering even the humans arent that dangerous.

I should say though that flying cargo missions in my type 9 is still exciting. If you maximize cargo space and dont carry an slf or reinforcements a miscalculation can still kill you, even against npcs.
 
Frontier are also aware of how many copies of the base-game have a corresponding copy of Horizons.

Last time I saw it published only 1.3M copies of Horizons had been sold compared to 3M copies of the base game.

Therefore less than half of the potential player-base has access to Engineering.
What about LEP? is that calculated into the 1.3 M Horizon copies?
Just curious, I bought the (base) game before Horizon but premium beta awarded LEP.

cheers
DZ
 
A poor Anarchy system = dangerous, A rich, high tech Democracy system = safe

This has never seemed very intuitive to me.

In the ED setting, I'd expect pirates and the like to cluster around trade routes between rich systems and use more rundown locales as redoubts, where they would avoid causing too much trouble (crapping where you live is a bad idea in most any setting). Places with a lot of security have a lot of security because they need a lot of security. Off the beaten path, one should be fairly safe.
 
This has never seemed very intuitive to me.

In the ED setting, I'd expect pirates and the like to cluster around trade routes between rich systems and use more rundown locales as redoubts, where they would avoid causing too much trouble (crapping where you live is a bad idea in most any setting). Places with a lot of security have a lot of security because they need a lot of security. Off the beaten path, one should be fairly safe.
Another way to look at it: the universe is dangerous everywhere, but high sec systems are high sec because they can afford it.
 

sollisb

Banned
Game is pretty challenging if I take off my glasses or turn off my monitor, but that's not the same as sensible gameplay design or scaling.

Having to explicit opt in to anything resembling a hazard and artificially handicap oneself to find anything resembling a challenge is one of the most acute problems ED has, IMO.

Can also be interpreted as by optimising your ship with engineering, you opted out of normal play threat?

I can get my son to play my other account with no engineering yet and I can play in my 1.4bn Cutter, both of us in the HazRez... Guess which one of us is overpowered for the content... Same for super cruise, same for everything.

Just take a stock sidewinder, fill it with cargo and go into any hazer, for S&G... I didn't last too long :)

o7
 
This has never seemed very intuitive to me.

In the ED setting, I'd expect pirates and the like to cluster around trade routes between rich systems and use more rundown locales as redoubts, where they would avoid causing too much trouble (crapping where you live is a bad idea in most any setting). Places with a lot of security have a lot of security because they need a lot of security. Off the beaten path, one should be fairly safe.
Tho IRL pirates tend to be a problem off the coasts of anarchic hell holes like Somalia, not off the coasts of wealthier, more lawful countries like the US or Britain....
 
FD staff really said this?

For Elite, with its pedigree going back to the original 1984 versions, there is simply no facepalm big enough to do this justice.
the live stream was way back (2015 maybe) and I think it was Braben or Sandro. The exact reason was to not restrict movement and have areas 'locked off' due to security status, again memory is a little hazy but I remember being open mouthed at the offhand dismissal of the idea, almost as if they hadn't considered it.

I think the true reason goes a bit deeper into the way SC works and how they set up the BGS, RNG etc and the fact by then it was all hard baked into ED.
 
Ok, I have seen this kind of topic drop by in different games. And gimping yourself increases the challenge in a game, but it decreases fun. You are throwing whole sections of a game out the window. usually in MMORPG's people say : "just dont use stat points and gear", basically saying : "just throw major elements of an RPG into the garbage". In ED you will throw away the whole time spent engineering and tinkering ships. And more importantly as a player you will be aware that the only reason why it is challenging, is because you willingly handicapped yourself. I want to be fighting tooth and nail for it, and having to use all available resources to your disposal, that's when a game gets fun.

Just like artificial difficulty gives a really bad aftertaste, so does creating artificial challenge.

Shouldn't combat rank already take care of this? higher combat rank more challenge right? If that is not the case then NPC's in regards to combat rank should be tweaked. In my opinion NPC encounters should also take in account the engineering level of a player as well. Adding special high risk missions, would also be an option playing with the risk and reward factor. Want to play safe? sure no problem but you'll get lower payouts. Higher risk more rewards. Add the changes in regards to security level others have suggested, and voila. Traders who want to play safe can still play safe. And players that want a challenge, don't have to create artificial challenge and can have those nail biting moments.
 
This has never seemed very intuitive to me.

In the ED setting, I'd expect pirates and the like to cluster around trade routes between rich systems and use more rundown locales as redoubts, where they would avoid causing too much trouble (crapping where you live is a bad idea in most any setting). Places with a lot of security have a lot of security because they need a lot of security. Off the beaten path, one should be fairly safe.
I know what you mean but during the 'golden age of piracy' Nassau was a pirate run city/town, their base of operations. They would raid shipping running to and from the Caribbean, nobody but pirates ever went to Nassau and the occasional empire sponsored flotilla of navy ships to liberate the island.
 
The statement I mentioned was in relation to multi-player.

You have a source for that?

Save points don't make any sense except for an offline/private server.

Can also be interpreted as by optimising your ship with engineering, you opted out of normal play threat?

Few NPC threats require Engineering, and CMDRs with just as much Engineering as my CMDR can manage constitute normal play threats.

There should not be anything I can do to make activities that should carry risk, essentially risk free, but the opposite is the case. My CMDR should have a lot of powerful enemies by now, to the point things should be very difficult for him, even if I'm trying my absolute best, with all the resources at his command, to mitigate those risks.

Just take a stock sidewinder, fill it with cargo and go into any hazer, for S&G

I don't want S&G to be the be all of 'challenge' and it still wouldn't introduce any risk. Handicapping myself then looking for trouble is precisely the opposite of what I'm looking for.

Tho IRL pirates tend to be a problem off the coasts of anarchic hell holes like Somalia, not off the coasts of wealthier, more lawful countries like the US or Britain....

There were more attacks in the Caribbean in the last few years than off Somalia, though far fewer than around the Gulf of Guinea or the South China Sea.

Point is piracy and robberies tend to target trade lanes and other high value targets; waiting around dumps rarely presents an opportunity for a good haul. Even Somali pirates aren't often attacking shipping in and out of Somalia, or within Somalia's territorial waters.
 
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Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
You have a source for that?

Save points don't make any sense except for an offline/private server.
Yes indeed - Ashley Barley (the OP) was a Community Manager at the time:
 
Difficulty is more than making ATR level ships (which themselves are cheaty one -trick ponies).

I would love FD making more interesting pirate wings- how about 10 G3 Sidewinders, or copy the Thargoid Scout model and have wings that have support ships you have to identify and take out? These days its all too easy to ignore NPCs and tank fire while moving down his chums.

Currently is dull, with identical builds with little variety. Add to that simplistic timing rules, means little satisfaction for those even mildly skilled- and that can be easily nullified through absurd engineering levels.

For a game that has 'Elite' in the title, it is rather amusing that it means so little in game.
 
Yes indeed - Ashley Barley (the OP) was a Community Manager at the time:

That really doesn't sound much different than what we have now. Saves are updated at regular intervals and with, you start very near where you left off after destroyed, with minimal consequences.
 
Unfortunately, as I’m in Australia, the game is relatively quiet player-wise when I’m online, as it’s usually the middle of the night in UK/US.

But the point I’m trying to make is that the game requires me to go somewhere to seek out danger and mayhem. It would be nice (?) if danger and mayhem sought me out sometimes too.

It's never going to happen because FDev are obviously aware that there are plenty of risk-averse players. I'm not applying any value judgements to anybody's gameplay there by the way, or disparaging players who want a quiet life, we all like different things and there's nothing wrong with that.

A prime example would be the comment someone made about reducing the 'danger' from neutron stars. For me the only way they could be made less 'dangerous' would be if they were removed from the game completely, they pose literally zero risk to anybody willing to spend ten seconds understanding some fundamental concepts. Same with black holes, 'oh noes I flew straight into a singularity and err... bounced off it taking about 3% hull damage and a bit of heat!'

However it's clear from the forums that for every player who wants to be dicing with death each time they drop into a system, there's one who wants to just potter around at a leisurely pace doing their own thing. If FDev had created the game so that either of those competing imperatives had the whip hand, they would have probably halved their potential player base. Instead they decided to remove the need for that competition by essentially making the 'danger' (for want of a better word) largely opt-in. I can't see it ever changing because the game is like that by design, not by accident or because the developers are unaware of it.


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I'm probably somewhere in the middle by the way - for example I'd be happy for a bit more genuine risk to exist when exploring (being out in deep space 30K Ly away from the nearest humanity does seem like an activity that should be inherently dangerous) but then weighed against that is the fact that providing a possible instadeath scenario for a player who might have spent a year or more out in the black and would lose all their discoveries, plus make absolutely zero credits due to losing all exploration data, would be a brave choice for a game developer.

I'd be very happy for activities like smuggling and high-value trading to carry more risk; the old Robigo trade runs back to the bubble when you got maybe 7 or 8 separate pirates chasing you were fun but even then if you were decent at the interdiction mini-game the risk was minimal and interdictions have been massively dumbed down since those days too - last time I was in the bubble I managed to avoid an interdiction attempt from an npc FDL which doesn't sound hugely shocking until I point out that I was flying a fully laden T-9 at the time. Trouble is, I remember the forums before then and they regularly had people moaning about losing ships in that scenario, partly because they either didn't want to learn how to deal with them or just couldn't be bothered.

Look at mining now - you drop into a ring, a lone pirate appears, scans you and then leaves if all you have are limpets. That was a direct response to players complaining about getting attacked for their limpets every time they went mining. For me, a good solution would have been to remove the pirates if you mined say 50LY from any populated system which would have provided an option for the risk-averse which required them to make some compromises in order to benefit from it, but that doesn't seem to be FDev's style.

It is what it is. I made my peace with it a long time ago because it's clearly a fundamental tenet of the game's design ethos.
 
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