Help me Build the Best VR experience from scratch as of 10/19 (PC ...is iMac even a consideration?)

[Danrudy]

Hi,
I have been a lurker for the past year learning about Elite. Really interested in an immersive experience to explore the galaxy and create some nice visual memories (since I never will actaully get to outer space). Not so interested in combat mining etc....just eant to explore (heck, I will Elite would let me purchase a god mode ship so I could just spend the time taking in new sights rather than having to do the mining and things to get more $$ ...hint hint Elite...I am willing to pay!!!).
Anyways, I use my imac running windows through parallels for work. I find that I need to upgrade my 2015 iMac.
One idea is to just get a very high-end power iMac for to continue to run Parallels. First question...is this even an option to run VR on elite?...I was assuming not but it would be awesome if it as as I would prefer if possible to have one machine...but I realize I will likely need to bifurcate to two machines so am willing to accept that)

Second idea is to just bite the bullet and build a VR PC that I will also be able to use for work and just keep my less powerful iMac separate (for the most part.)

So, if you were building a brand new VR ready PC from scratch....which components would you opt for. Thankfully, $$ is not a major hindrance to this project. That is not to say it is unlimited and I will make some dollar and cents (sense?) decisions when it comes to pulling the trigger but to start I am curious what the consensus ultimate rig would use for components and then make the more sensible decisions. So, I am not looking for the minimum requirements, I am looking for the best experience!
for example, I saw one vendor (I decided not to build this myself, I have been there and done that) has the following rig for just under 5k . If this is way overkill....tell me...I am happy to save the $$.

• Windows 10 Home
• Intel® Core™ Processor i9-9900X
• NVIDIA® TITAN RTX™ 24GB GDDR6
• 32GB ADATA XPG Z1 3000MHz RAM
• ASUS TUF X299 MARK 2 Motherboard
• 1TB Intel® 660P PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD
• 4TB SATA3 7200 RPM HD

Is the Titan RTX going to give a much better experience (or is it really better) than the 2080ti to justify the $$?
How much RAM would you use? (yes, I know It can be very high, but, I am only interested if it will make a difference..no reason to get 128 if 64 or 32 does the job equally well)

which VR headset would you get? I know there are differences. For example, while I read the HP reverb is great visually, there are some tracking issues (has that been resoved)? I really want this to feel as natural and immersive as possible (did I mention that?). So, screendoor would bother me but so would moving my head up and down and having the whole world move with me. I am not sure what the consensus best headset is for VR in ED.....so this is a consideration that I would want to match with the maching...

Anyways, that is the general idea.... I would love suggestions and do appreciate any help. Also, am curious what other, if any, games give a outerspace exploration VR experience like ER.

 

[Gortron]

Apple is a non-starter for VR as they all use laptop GPUs.

If I had tons of spare money I'd still for a 2080Ti, the TITAN is for people that are trying to make the Cylons and self driving cars a realitiy. The power in the TITAN is aimed at AI not graphics.

You don't need 32GB for any VR application, 16 will be way more than enough but if you can afford 32 it then why not. I can't give any advice about which HMD to buy as I only have a Rift S. However, if you take my first bit of advice you could buy a Rift S and a Reverb and still save money

 

[aXeL]

What Gorton says IMO.

1. Buy a watercooled 2080Ti and OC it. Should be as fast as ( faster than? ) a Titan anyway.
2. Why Win 10 Home and not Pro? Got more control over the OS with the latter.
3. Steer clear of the 9900X. Wait 3 weeks and check the 10920X ( 12 core Cascade Lake X has better clocks than the 10 core version and may 'IMO' be the sweet spot of the new chips ) is launched. Compare it with the AMD X3950 ( around the same launch time give or take a few weeks. It has crappy clocks and boost compared with Intel but the IPC is very good ). The 10920X should be a speed binned version of the 9 series equivalent.
4. Buy 2x NVMe drives. One for the OS and Swap, one for games and temp storage. Personally I would buy at least 3x and stripe them because I have no sense of moderation.
5. RAM, I've not used less than 32Gb for years. A quick scan of 2018/2019 comparisons show no noticeable benefit of 32Gb over 16Gb.

HP Reverb; I have had no tracking issues whatsoever and that's comparing it to my Vive Pro which used lighthouses. It's comparatively cheap at ~$600 and is, arguably, the 'varsity right now.

 

[Danrudy]

Apple is a non-starter for VR as they all use laptop GPUs.

If I had tons of spare money I'd still for a 2080Ti, the TITAN is for people that are trying to make the Cylons and self driving cars a realitiy. The power in the TITAN is aimed at AI not graphics.

You don't need 32GB for any VR application, 16 will be way more than enough but if you can afford 32 it then why not. I can't give any advice about which HMD to buy as I only have a Rift S. However, if you take my first bit of advice you could buy a Rift S and a Reverb and still save money

THANK YOU.......that helps!

 

[Danrudy]

What Gorton says IMO.

1. Buy a watercooled 2080Ti and OC it. Should be as fast as ( faster than? ) a Titan anyway.
2. Why Win 10 Home and not Pro? Got more control over the OS with the latter.
3. Steer clear of the 9900X. Wait 3 weeks and check the 10920X ( 12 core Cascade Lake X has better clocks than the 10 core version and may 'IMO' be the sweet spot of the new chips ) is launched. Compare it with the AMD X3950 ( around the same launch time give or take a few weeks. It has crappy clocks and boost compared with Intel but the IPC is very good ). The 10920X should be a speed binned version of the 9 series equivalent.
4. Buy 2x NVMe drives. One for the OS and Swap, one for games and temp storage. Personally I would buy at least 3x and stripe them because I have no sense of moderation.
5. RAM, I've not used less than 32Gb for years. A quick scan of 2018/2019 comparisons show no noticeable benefit of 32Gb over 16Gb.

HP Reverb; I have had no tracking issues whatsoever and that's comparing it to my Vive Pro which used lighthouses. It's comparatively cheap at ~$600 and is, arguably, the 'varsity right now.

OK...that 2 votes for 2080ti...And will definitely look into a water-cooled one.
The win 10 home just happened to be the prepackaged unit I copy and pasted...I will get the pro for sure
HAve been out of th component shopping ever since I went over to iMac (simplified my life). But, thanks for the heads up on the new chip....I can easily wait for a few weeks...no rush here.
That is good to hear about the reverb. One of the reviews I had read here on ED was raving about it but did ding it for that...But, I think that review was from May.
Thanks for taking the time to give the advice...very much appreciated!

 

[Meresiga]

I'd rather buy a powerful gaming notebook with Windows 10 Pro...

Although I already have and so now enough a powerful notebook:

HP Omen 17-an012ur (1ZB20EA) - i7-7700HQ (2.8)/32Gb/1TB+256GB SSD/17.3" FHD AG/NV GTX 1070 8GB/FHD IR Cam/Win10 Pro

And I play the Elite-Game in virtual reality with the Oculus Rift s helmet with no problem. Playing with this helmet goes just fine. Also I use HOTAS Saitek X52 Pro

 

[specialsymbol]

I would stick to Desktop and wouldn't get a Laptop for VR, but this is just me. Maybe I'm too oldschool.

Also AMD is the way to go right now, both for CPU and GPU. I have the Vega 64 and I feel like I have less problems especially in VR with it than with Nvidia. Could be a driver thing, could be a raw power thing. Nvidia used to solve problems with software optimization, AMD went hardware - maybe that pays off in VR.

 

[Danrudy]

I'd rather buy a powerful gaming notebook with Windows 10 Pro...

Although I already have and so now enough a powerful notebook:

HP Omen 17-an012ur (1ZB20EA) - i7-7700HQ (2.8)/32Gb/1TB+256GB SSD/17.3" FHD AG/NV GTX 1070 8GB/FHD IR Cam/Win10 Pro

And I play the Elite-Game in virtual reality with the Oculus Rift s helmet with no problem. Playing with this helmet goes just fine. Also I use HOTAS Saitek X52 Pro

thanks....Had not thought about a laptop. This will be a fixed machine that will also be used for work.

 

[Danrudy]

I would stick to Desktop and wouldn't get a Laptop for VR, but this is just me. Maybe I'm too oldschool.

Also AMD is the way to go right now, both for CPU and GPU. I have the Vega 64 and I feel like I have less problems especially in VR with it than with Nvidia. Could be a driver thing, could be a raw power thing. Nvidia used to solve problems with software optimization, AMD went hardware - maybe that pays off in VR.

My prefrence is a desktop so will stick with that.
I am not so familiar with the AMD products.
What would be the AMD equivalent of the 9900X or upcoming 10920X mentioned above?
Also, what would be the AMD equivalent of the 2080ti? I see that it has 11gb vs the Vega 64 8gb. But, I am not familiar with their offerings? Obviously, would be thrilled to get reliable and less expensive but equivalent performance if possible.
Thanks!

 

[Yaga-Shura]

There is no AMD alternative to 2080Ti.

 

[aXeL]

Also AMD is the way to go right now, both for CPU and GPU. I have the Vega 64 and I feel like I have less problems especially in VR with it than with Nvidia. Could be a driver thing, could be a raw power thing. Nvidia used to solve problems with software optimization, AMD went hardware - maybe that pays off in VR.

That's really interesting, I didn't know about the GPU differences. I flip flop back and forth between the red and green although I've tended to be green in more recent years. Do you have any thing I could reference re. differences between the two with regard to VR?

 

[He$$eeTant]

2xSSD, 2080ti, 16GB, wired Internet not WiFi!!

Re the 9900k at launch many people had issues OC as off the shelf water coolers could not keep up with the amount of heat it throws out. For this reason I went 9700k I run it OC to 5.1 on liquid cooler. note whatever you get both Graphics card and Processor will need oveclocking to keep up with low end HMDs at ultimate settings. As far as high end HMDs you won’t be running Ultimate no matter what your budget.

I use Oculus Rift CV1 running fairly maxed out (1080ti) and while it’s not perfect it’s good.

The thing with VR is it’s not consumer yet, neither the HMDs or the PCs or the Games are synced. So you will be in a compromise and after paying X dollars this may well upset you.

 

[aXeL]

Re the 9900k at launch many people had issues OC as off the shelf water coolers could not keep up with the amount of heat it throws out. For this reason I went 9700k I run it OC to 5.1 on liquid cooler. note whatever you get both Graphics card and Processor will need oveclocking to keep up with low end HMDs at ultimate settings. As far as high end HMDs you won’t be running Ultimate no matter what your budget.

Hey He$$eeTant, I agree you except I might caveat the above. I'm running just a 4690k @4.6 and a 1080ti@2.1 ( ok so the GPU is pretty good ) and, with my Reverb, I've maxed out the settings without problems because I've turned off SS ( both HMD and screen ). Ok, I get jaggies but on the Reverb, SS just looks smudged but then that's just my personal view. If I max out HMD and SS, I can get coffee between frames.... and drink it... through a straw... and not just any straw but the eco friendly rubbish that goes soggy halfway through your drink so you have to get another.

 

[Danrudy]

Hey He$$eeTant, I agree you except I might caveat the above. I'm running just a 4690k @4.6 and a 1080ti@2.1 ( ok so the GPU is pretty good ) and, with my Reverb, I've maxed out the settings without problems because I've turned off SS ( both HMD and screen ). Ok, I get jaggies but on the Reverb, SS just looks smudged but then that's just my personal view. If I max out HMD and SS, I can get coffee between frames.... and drink it... through a straw... and not just any straw but the eco friendly rubbish that goes soggy halfway through your drink so you have to get another.

ss?

 

[sewerratuk]

ss?

Super Sampling

 

[He$$eeTant]

ss?

Super Sampling.
There are two settings to improve the picture for Elite, Super Sample through the HMD config editor and it’s also exposed through some games. Second in elite they have packaged up a nice version called HMD Image quality that goes from 1-2 in 0.1 intervals. I run 1.5 as it sharpens the text quality.

 

[Gortron]

My prefrence is a desktop so will stick with that.
I am not so familiar with the AMD products.
What would be the AMD equivalent of the 9900X or upcoming 10920X mentioned above?
Also, what would be the AMD equivalent of the 2080ti? I see that it has 11gb vs the Vega 64 8gb. But, I am not familiar with their offerings? Obviously, would be thrilled to get reliable and less expensive but equivalent performance if possible.
Thanks!

AMD Ryzen CPUs are really good right now and they are forcing Intel to get off there and innovate. Without Ryzen, Intel would probably still be on 4 cores for the consumer market. For games, annoyingly, Intel still has the edge in most cases but not by much and I'd probably buy AMD over intel right now. As more and more games use Multiple cores the balance could (should) change and AMD supports the same sockets for far longer than Intel, so upgrading might be as simple as buying a new chip for AMD (though this generation is the last they said they would support on AM4), with Intel you normally need to change everything every time they release a chip.

UserBenchmark: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X vs Intel Core i9-9900K

cpu.userbenchmark.com

For graphics cards AMD are so far behind Nvidia at the high end they aren't even in the running right now. The best they have to offer is almost as good as the RTX 2070 Super but they can't touch the 2080Ti unfortunately. AMD is much better value for money but if you want performance over that then AMD is out of the race (just don't waste your money on a Titan RTX

https://www.techradar.com/reviews/amd-radeon-rx-5700

My impression from your OP is that you have a big budget. If so, an AMD CPU might be a good idea but an AMD GPU is not at the moment. VR is super demanding and it is easy to have your graphics cards on its knees begging for mercy if you start messing with super-sampling or HMD quality setting (and you almost certainly will).

Resolution (or lack of it) is pretty much the biggest complaint about VR and as that goes up so will the demand on your GPU. You want a fast CPU, fast RAM, fast M.2 drives, everything fast, but especially your graphics card...

Unlike in normal games, in VR your PC is outputting two different images to two (real or virtual) displays at high refresh rates while trying to track your exact head moments in real-time with minimal lag. This is so you can see in 3D without your brain noticing a difference between you moving your head and what you expect to see. If that happens, it either doesn't look real or if minor enough, just makes you feel sea sick.

Some people are more susceptible and others less to the problems with VR. The technology is slowly ironing out these issues but there is no way it will involve graphics processors getting less powerful.

UserBenchmark: AMD RX 5700-XT vs Nvidia RTX 2080-Ti

gpu.userbenchmark.com

 

[Danrudy]

AMD Ryzen CPUs are really good right now and they are forcing Intel to get off there and innovate. Without Ryzen, Intel would probably still be on 4 cores for the consumer market. For games, annoyingly, Intel still has the edge in most cases but not by much and I'd probably buy AMD over intel right now. As more and more games use Multiple cores the balance could (should) change and AMD supports the same sockets for far longer than Intel, so upgrading might be as simple as buying a new chip for AMD (though this generation is the last they said they would support on AM4), with Intel you normally need to change everything every time they release a chip.

UserBenchmark: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X vs Intel Core i9-9900K

cpu.userbenchmark.com

For graphics cards AMD are so far behind Nvidia at the high end they aren't even in the running right now. The best they have to offer is almost as good as the RTX 2070 Super but they can't touch the 2080Ti unfortunately. AMD is much better value for money but if you want performance over that then AMD is out of the race (just don't waste your money on a Titan RTX

https://www.techradar.com/reviews/amd-radeon-rx-5700

My impression from your OP is that you have a big budget. If so, an AMD CPU might be a good idea but an AMD GPU is not at the moment. VR is super demanding and it is easy to have your graphics cards on its knees begging for mercy if you start messing with super-sampling or HMD quality setting (and you almost certainly will).

Resolution (or lack of it) is pretty much the biggest complaint about VR and as that goes up so will the demand on your GPU. You want a fast CPU, fast RAM, fast M.2 drives, everything fast, but especially your graphics card...

Unlike in normal games, in VR your PC is outputting two different images to two (real or virtual) displays at high refresh rates while trying to track your exact head moments in real-time with minimal lag. This is so you can see in 3D without your brain noticing a difference between you moving your head and what you expect to see. If that happens, it either doesn't look real or if minor enough, just makes you feel sea sick.

Some people are more susceptible and others less to the problems with VR. The technology is slowly ironing out these issues but there is no way it will involve graphics processors getting less powerful.

UserBenchmark: AMD RX 5700-XT vs Nvidia RTX 2080-Ti

gpu.userbenchmark.com

Wow...Lost of great info there. Thanks!
You are correct, the budget is big (but not unlimited by any stretch ). I saw above the 10920X intel mentioned above. I figured I would wait a few weeks and see what that was pricing out at and if it would be carried by the custom builders (I don't have the energy to build this one myself and I don't think my wife wants me to create another project mess, so I am going to have this one built for me). However, if there is a similar AMD chip and those are more easily upgradeable, that is a consideration. I wonder if there is anything upcoming from AMD in near future after the Ryzn 3900 you mentioned.

Regarding the graphics cards discussion and explanation you gave. (BTW, great, so thanks for that as well!) ...2080ti seems to certainly be the way to go. However, I am wondering if there is ANY benefit to getting paired 2080ti SLI cards? Is that just wasted overkill or would having 2 cards resolve many of those issues? ( I learned above that they should also be water cooled !!! )

 

[Cliché]

I'm putting as little into VR until they come out with a real improvement. I'm not talking super high resolution as I'm actually quite happy with the Rift S. Higher resolution would be good if the hardware at the time can handle it. But what I really want to see is a much wider FOV in a quality HMD with good black levels. That will be more pixels to drive, but I don't even care if it's blurry on the sides. I just want something for my peripheral vision to see. I'll move my head and glance at what I want to see clearly - just like I do out of VR. If they could throw in some eye tracking and foveated rendering, so much the better. And SLI support!

When that headset comes out, that is when I'm replacing my currently 5 year old computer that at least has a GTX-1080, which works with the Rift S at lower quality settings. Hopefully bleeding edge components will be more affordable at that time, or at least top of the line components of today should be a lot cheaper.

If I didn't have VR, knowing what I know today, I would build a moderate system just capable of running the Rift. Then in 1-2 years, either upgrade or start all over again. I'm really hoping it won't take longer than that.

 

[Ascendingbike42]

OK...that 2 votes for 2080ti...And will definitely look into a water-cooled one.

I think gigabyte does a aio water cooled one.