exactly that:
you just admitted there is an effect, you just don't care.
(don't really know where this is going but this contradiction just caught my eye
)
Do "purple-haired heroes" scare everyone into Solo?
exactly that:
you just admitted there is an effect, you just don't care.
(don't really know where this is going but this contradiction just caught my eye
)
Not the boat I was talking about.
Regardless, in the case of ED, combat isn't the only or always the most profound way to affect someone's experience.
If most people felt that they had no agency over the setting, or that the setting had no impact on them, they wouldn't be playing the game.
You may not feel anything anyone does affects your game, or that you can do anything that affects anyone else's game, but that's your subjective opinion, and one that most would disagree with.
you just admitted there is an effect, you just don't care.
(don't really know where this is going but this contradiction just caught my eye
Those "effects" are self-delusions, and do not make any lasting impressions. Much like walking along the beach. By the time you turn around to look your footprints are already gone and forgotten.
Though I'll take 1-v-1 over 4-v-1 any day. My last interdiction at this new CG was at least three very well engineered ships attacking little 'ol me in my Novice Vulture. Thankfully I escaped, but they scraped my paint!
Now if they want to do that, okay, but I find it a bit counter-productive to their argument that I'M the carebear who is looking for "easy mode" when they hide behind numbers, superior firepower, and way more rebuys that I have. (This is different than the wing I crossed paths with at the CZ, which gave me a proper beating because I poked a stick in their beehive, LOL)
Do tell. Other than blowing someone up or being blown up by someone, please let me know what actually affects someone's experience.
If most people realized that they had no agency over the setting, or the setting had no impact on them, they wouldn't be playing the game.
FIFY.
Elite is like Sisyphus, pushing the boulder up the mountain, sliding back down the mountain, and pushing it again. He'll never get there, he knows it, but he can't stop pushing it either.
well, same can be said about humans since 'self' itself is an illusion. after all it's all ripples in space time. but, hey, they are affected by other ripples!
well, same can be said about humans since 'self' itself is an illusion. after all it's all ripples in space time. but, hey, they are affected by other ripples!
As much, or as little as they allow.
"Did you see what Kim Kardashian did today?"
"No, did she get hit by a train so I never have to hear about her again?:
"..."
"Did you see what Someone You've Never Heard Of posted on YouTube?"
"No, was it a final farewell message so no one ever asks me about it again?"
"..."
"Did you hear Little Fattie has massed troops along the Canadian boarder and is getting ready to invade the US?"
"No, but I've got 50,000 rounds of ammo, so if I see any North Korean troops in my neighborhood, I'll be sure to make the world a few less, assuming our own forces haven't taken care of them first."
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now serious, i don't think that's the case. stuff does happen, often because players themselves make it happen. the bgs is just a spinning wheel but that's just the backdrop. in game permanent changes are a rarity but that's not mandatory for stuff to happen and fun to be had. and there are lots of examples, all boiling down to players impacting each other in many different ways. player groups form and dissolve. it's kinda alive, as long as it draws attention. factions become important, and their state prompt for action, not because some in game assets but because players choose to believe in them and play that game.
of course i would prefer a world with total player agency (fully aware that it might end up as a wasteland!
). the agency in elite is much or little, depending on how you look at it, but it seems to be enough for people playing along.That's subjective to the individuals in question.
Everyone who actively manipulates the BGS cares about the effect their manipulations have.
Those who explore care about seeing new sights, having their name on formerly undiscovered objects, filling a personal quota of Earth-like, getting that next PF rank, or whatever.
Anything that the game can depict is going to actually affect someone's experience with the game. Indeed, this is many people's motivation for playing games (or doing much of anything), to be affected by them.
Maybe you can render your own experience with the game meaningless, which would be your own prerogative, but saying that everyone else is wrong for caring about what they've chosen to invest time and effort into...
To play the game, for most people, is to choose to allow. Otherwise there would be no point in playing.
now serious, i don't think that's the case. stuff does happen, often because players themselves make it happen. the bgs is just a spinning wheel but that's just the backdrop. in game permanent changes are a rarity but that's not mandatory for stuff to happen and fun to be had. and there are lots of examples, all boiling down to players impacting each other in many different ways. player groups form and dissolve. it's kinda alive, as long as it draws attention. factions become important, and their state prompt for action, not because some in game assets but because players choose to believe in them and play that game.
of course i would prefer a world with total player agency (fully aware that it might end up as a wasteland!
I don't either, and that was my point. Outside of a number of people I can count on one hand, none of us are here to try to reshape the galaxy in our own image. We're here to have some fun, be it hauling goods, seeing places, shooting at things, seeing if we can make the Kessle Run in less than 12 parsecs - and when that stops being fun we go do other things, and the galaxy is still there.
The BGS and system states... they have, overall, only a minor impact on anything. Sure, ultimately, they have some bearing on what kinds of materials you can find for engineering modules. Ever see a system completely starve out to where stations have been abandoned and the system population drops to zero?
How about a war-torn system where things are so bad the system has been permit-locked by the Pilot's Federation and declared a "no-fly" zone?
Not that THESE kinds of impacts and effects wouldn't make Elite more interesting, they would, but Elite just doesn't work like this.
And those who do not, should what? Not interact with things that impact the BGS? Check with those who believe they are in charge of the BGS to have their activities approved in advance?
I've never been to Beagle Point, but a million other people have. Will it somehow look differently when I get there, as opposed to how it appeared when the first player reached it? Because you scanned an Earthlike world, does that mean I cannot now scan it? I'm out on the edge of the galaxy, yet I routinely spot places someone else has writ their name - does this diminish my experience? I don't choose to allow it to do so. I do not say "Damn, someone else has been here, might as well quit the game." Instead, I say, "Oh, neat, someone else has passed this way." and keep on moving.
Again, as much or as little, as positively or negatively as they choose.
I never said anyone was wrong for caring about whatever they care about. Everyone is free to care as much or as little about whatever they like - except for what someone else is doing.
Sure, we can sit and Butterfly Effect every little thing everyone does anywhere in the galaxy, but how much game playing will that get accomplished?
I choose not to allow, and my point in playing lies in the doing of things I have not done, challenging myself to do things I have done in new ways, or simply turning off the outside analog world for a while and diving in to something that distracts me from reality for a while.
I liken a lot of what happens, especially here in the forums, to the die-hard sports fan, who wakes up in the morning, dresses in favorite-team attire, paints their face, pulls on their big foam finger, sits down on the sofa with a load of drinks and snacks, and proceeds to scream at their television throughout the game - as if anyone can hear them, or it has any impact on the outcome of the game.
They're not hurting anyone - unless they have an upstairs/downstairs or otherwise conjoined neighbor who would rather be spending the afternoon in peace... but even then, no actual harm is done, and that is a noise one can learn to tune out rather easily.
Simply acknowledge that they have an effect on others would be plenty.
They are free to care about that too...and such concerns can even be well founded one when those activities impact their own.
Great, but pretending the things you have your CMDR do have no effect on anyone else is mistaken or disingenuous.
The TV analogy doesn't strike me as a particularly good one as television isn't two-way.
Other players effects on ED are plainly visible from within the game, irrespective of mode, while the forums can easily inspire in-game activity.
I acknowledge that effects → 0 are close enough to 0 for me. I'm not into minutiae.
See above.
I'm perfectly fine being disingenuous, as I genuinely do not care if anyone else is having fun except me. No one else is my problem. I don't get paid to entertain anyone here, no one is willing to pay SAG rates for me to entertain them, so I don't do it.
That doesn't stop anyone from entertaining themselves does it? It doesn't stop them from yelling at the screen like someone can hear them. They're having fun. If you can't see that much at least, this will never go anywhere. As for the impact others have, please illustrate the impact I have had on your experience. If you need a specific time frame, let me know, and I'll provide one.
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
Your character is a part of the game world whether you care to be or not. It's unavoidable.
You are my entertainment, both on this forum, and in-game, to varying degrees of abstractness. The only way for it to be otherwise would be for you to not play the game and not post. It's a fundamental aspect of a persistent online setting that every transaction contributes to and people being able to read and respond to what you say.
I'm not sure what relevance that has to anything I said.
One's ability to entertain one's self doesn't imply that one operates in a vacuum, neither impacted by nor impacting others.
If you're aware of what your CMDR has been doing, it would be far easier for you to tell me than for me to separate your specific input from the changes I've observed. And no, my inability to divine precisely who is responsible for what does not diminish those impacts.
Morbad is correct, IndigoWyrd is not.
dis·in·gen·u·ous /ˌdisənˈjenyo͞oəs/
adjective
not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
In this case, I'm not pretending to know anything less, I just don't take or want responsibility for anyone else's fun.
My character is, indeed, part of the game world, with a disposition of general apathy and misanthropy. His motivations are based on who's paying him, and what happens to pique his interest.
Space is a pretty big vacuum and we all operate in it. But word-play aside, unless you're specifically signing in to participate in group activities, which is not a requirement, it is vital to be able to entertain ourselves, else things will get very dull, very fast.
For the past 46 weeks, my Commander has been out on the edge of the galaxy, scanning and mapping worlds unseen by anyone else, encountering space-borne and surface life forms, most of which have been already recorded in some manner, though I have been able to discern some traits and characteristics yet undiscovered. How have my past 46 weeks impacted you?
We can go back a bit further - prior to departing inhabited space, my activities have included:
Collecting materials from signal sources to replenish my supplies, repairing damaged space stations, and raising my reputation with Mingfu Fortune Industry, roughly a six-month process. And this has impacted you how?
That will be determined when and if you ever sell that data.
If you never make it back, then it could still be argued that your absence was a factor.
Edit: Now that I think of it, every previously unexplored system your CMDR has been to has now been seeded. The configuration was indeterminate until you arrived, now it's fixed. Anyone else stumbling across the system will see something different than if they had been first, and will have slightly fast loading times...even if your CMDR never comes back with that data.
Mingfu Fortune Industry? Do you have a Mingfu permit?
Your CMDR's actions may well have been a significant contributor in that permit becoming inaccessible. To the best of my knowledge, it is the only permit locked system that it is not longer possible to get the permit for that had permits available at one point. I've wanted that permit for years and it's one of only two that were ever given that my CMDR doesn't have. Feels like a pretty big impact if your actions contributed to the retreat of Mingfu Revolutionary Labor from neighboring systems,
Regardless, every single transaction your CMDR has ever made has shifted the BGS to some degree.
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Yes, my mass of data will blow up someone's careful BGS manipulations, possibly for an entire week. Or I may spread them around, so as to offset any impact it could potentially have, but when all is said and done, no systems will be inaccessible, the legal status of beer will remain unaffected, no power will have any greater advantage over another, and in the end the only person who will realize what has been done will be me - as I'll be quite a few credits richer.
I had no influence over the retreat of Mingfu - they were already in isolation before I started playing the game, locked away in their system. As for if I have said permit, that is for me to know, as possession of said permit, once more, does not impact anyone else, unless they're trying to chase me into Mingfu, in which case, they would fail to make that final jump. Since I have less than no interest in PvP, no one chases me. I'm not out to throw off the balance of power anywhere, so no one pays attention to my comings and goings. At most, folks may here me quip a funny line at a station somewhere in passing. It makes no difference to me who controls what, which flag flies at what station, as none of this changes anything as far as how game play progresses. It's one of the major turn-offs of Power(less) Play. Imperial Space, Federal Space, Alliance Space, Independent Space - all the same. Same regulations, same selection of missions, same pointless, powerless, meaningless factions - even if they mean something to someone else, in the end, it doesn't change anything if they're listed first, last or not at all on a mission board list.
And Elite is not the BGS. I get that some people think it is the only thing that matters - that is entirely their problem. At the end of day, since there are no fundamental differences between factions and powers, it means nothing. If the entire galaxy were run by the Mingfu Fortune Industry it would not prevent anyone, anywhere, from entering a station, making use of the services offered there, or otherwise interacting with the rest of the galaxy.
As for system configurations being "fixed", I'd want to see some sort of Official Statement there - this is the first I've heard that systems are not configured before they're visited. I'd think a system, its configuration and makeup is part of Stellar Forge, it's just not revealed to us. But if this is the case, countless others before me have "fixed" some part of the galaxy already. Someone else will "fix" others after me.
I used to have a couple of Porsche's but I sold them and paid $7000 for a 4wd because the Porsche's kept getting bogged on the beach, you use the right tools for the job.
The distribution of influence could well have a greater effect on others than those credits will have on your CMDR.
If this were the case you wouldn't have been able to increase your reputation with that faction. No faction native to Mingfu has had a presence outside Mingfu in a very long time.
It would allow you to be one of the few people with any ability to influence the factions inside Mingfu, giving you the power to dictate if and when access becomes available.
You could well do so unintentionally.
Sure it does, just not to you.
By design the BGS is a major aspect of the game and one of the primary ways CMDRs interact with the setting and each other...so much so that they canned the entire offline game because it wouldn't work without the mutually updated BGS.
Reiterating that nothing matters to you is not an argument for it not mattering to others.
I know there is seed data that is responsible for the location and other properties of every star, but I was under the impression that seeds and unique identifiers for sub-bodies within those systems weren't generated until the the system was actually visited by someone. However, I could well be misremembering or misinterpreting something.