Flawed game logic strikes again: haz-rez

Julio Montega

Julio Montega
Ahoy there,
what do you think on the following scenario and the result of the current game logic.

System security status: High
Haz-rez in system -> haz-rez = no police response, no ATR, only miners, pirates and powerplay NPCs

Attack a clean ship in haz-rez = assault fine
Kill a clean ship in haz-rez = bounty on your head.
How does that happen, without any police ever showing up?

With the recent rework of tooltips on the specific places in a system,
also showing that this is a prime spot for piracy, then be consistent here,
and remove the accumulation of fines and bounties.
Just like the bad guys owning a specific town in place no cop ever
dares to enter and looking away on the business done there.



Logic?!
 
Last edited:

Julio Montega

Julio Montega
Mohrgan said:
Transponders. Both your ship, and your victims ship communicated with the local stations alerting them to the crime. How do you think everyone finds out about when you've paid off the fine/bounty?
Click to expand...

It doesn't make much sense though, especially when you look at the criminals operating
there having a total of like 4% system influence.
Let me be direct here:
  • make haz-rez spawn at lower security levels only (medium = low amount of haz-rez/ low = a lot haz-rez / anarchy = haz-rez only)
  • remove the bounty/fines accumulation in hazardous places
  • allow for strike ops of the system security to counter hazardous places (haz-rez/hacked nav-beacon)
The transponders arguments is just space magic honestly,
especially when looking at missions disabling fines/bounties,
as long as no cops show up too.
So the counter argument logically is, that transponders do not work there,
due to the criminals jamming them.
 

Julio Montega

Julio Montega
Factabulous said:
fdev designed the C&P to 'encourage' low life criminals to leave the high sec systems and head to anarchies where they belong. Fatal flaw: murderous scum are thick as planks - why knew? 🤷‍♀️
Click to expand...

Nah, if i recap correctly C&P was a means to counter mass murder BGS manipulation and add another layer to powerplay murders.
C&P isn't actually worth mentioning at all, especially with the game giving loopholes freely.
 

Mohrgan

Mohrgan
Julio Montega said:
It doesn't make much sense though, especially when you look at the criminals operating
there having a total of like 4% system influence.
Let me be direct here:
  • make haz-rez spawn at lower security levels only (medium = low amount of haz-rez/ low = a lot haz-rez / anarchy = haz-rez only)
  • remove the bounty/fines accumulation in hazardous places
  • allow for strike ops of the system security to counter hazardous places (haz-rez/hacked nav-beacon)
The transponders arguments is just space magic honestly,
especially when looking at missions disabling fines/bounties,
as long as no cops show up too.
So the counter argument logically is, that transponders do not work there,
due to the criminals jamming them.
Click to expand...

I can only say that 'Transponders' is more than enough logic for me, to just go on enjoying the game.
 

GeoJase

GeoJase
You've been hunting wanted ships at the site for an hour, they don't like it. They send footage to the cops of you tapping a clean ship. It's them throwing you under the bus, I mean space ship
 

Stealthie

Stealthie
Julio Montega said:
Ahoy there,
what do you think on the following scenario and the result of the current game logic.

System security status: High
Haz-rez in system -> haz-rez = no police response, no ATR, only miners, pirates and powerplay NPCs

Attack a clean ship in haz-rez = assault fine
Kill a clean ship in haz-rez = bounty on your head.
How does that happen, without any police ever showing up?

With the recent rework of tooltips on the specific places in a system,
also showing that this is a prime spot for piracy, then be consistent here,
and remove the accumulation of fines and bounties.
Just like the bad guys owning a specific town in place no cop ever
dares to enter and looking away on the business done there.



Logic?!
Click to expand...

Seems like an odd thing to grumble about.

Why does anybody ever get a fine/bounty for doing stuff when there's no cops around?
We have the "report crimes" option in our ship's HUD so it seems reasonable to assume NPCs have similar options.

If you're looking for logical flaws in RES's, I'd be more concerned about how you can explode dozens of NPCs from a given faction without arousing the suspicion of further ships from the same faction or making them hostile or the spectaculary optimistic pirates who'll fly up to your Corvette in their Eagles/Adders and demand cargo, only to get obliterated... one after the other, in plain sight of each other.
 

Julio Montega

Julio Montega
Stealthie said:
Seems like an odd thing to grumble about.

Why does anybody ever get a fine/bounty for doing stuff when there's no cops around?
We have the "report crimes" option in our ship's HUD so it seems reasonable to assume NPCs have the same tools.

If you're looking for logical flaws in RES's, I'd be more concerned about how you can explode dozens of NPCs from a given faction without arousing the suspicion of further ships from the same faction or making them hostile or the spectaculary optimistic pirates who'll fly up to your Corvette in their Eagles/Adders and demand cargo, only to get obliterated... one after the other, in plain sight of each other.
Click to expand...

Yep, and why can't the pirates, terrorizing that place, simply use the same tools
our mission employers use, when assassinating someone?
It is only logical, that the place is hazardous, because ships vanish going there,
without a trace.
 

M00ka

M00ka
Hmm, remember once in my youth driving in one of the better parts of town, went too fast past a speed camera. Got fined, even though there wasn't a cop in sight …..
 

Stealthie

Stealthie
Julio Montega said:
Yep, and why can't the pirates, terrorizing that place, simply use the same tools
our mission employers use, when assassinating someone?
It is only logical, that the place is hazardous, because ships vanish going there,
without a trace.
Click to expand...

Admittedly, there are inconsistencies... which, ironocally, are inconsistently applied.

When I'm doing wetwork missions that turn out to be massacring hippie convoys I do sometimes get bounties for attacking the mission targets.
Other times, it seems like it's open-season on my targets.

Perhaps the faction-leaders who have the authority to put contracts out on people also have the authority to prevent the cops taking an interest in some crimes?

I do most of my crimes in dedicated naughty-ships, so I don't really pay much attention to avoiding bounties. 🤷‍♂️
 

fu9ar

fu9ar
You are mistaking the word logical for the word plausible. The system works with a perfectly consistent internal logic. It is a computer system after all. That's kinda their whole thing.
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
Julio Montega said:
Ahoy there,
what do you think on the following scenario and the result of the current game logic.

System security status: High
Haz-rez in system -> haz-rez = no police response, no ATR, only miners, pirates and powerplay NPCs

Attack a clean ship in haz-rez = assault fine
Kill a clean ship in haz-rez = bounty on your head.
How does that happen, without any police ever showing up?

With the recent rework of tooltips on the specific places in a system,
also showing that this is a prime spot for piracy, then be consistent here,
and remove the accumulation of fines and bounties.
Just like the bad guys owning a specific town in place no cop ever
dares to enter and looking away on the business done there.



Logic?!
Click to expand...
I can't stand Res sights as they currently work. Nope they don't make sense.

Haz Rez should only be available in anarchy systems.
 

Reggit

Reggit
I think FDev missed a trick by not assigning specific areas of the Bubble for specific playstyles - I'm sure there'd be less salt around! Think - places where PvP is encouraged, and other areas where it's totally impossible (and everything inbetween)...It would get a little 'Eve-like', and i suspect that's why it never happened!
Still - updates keep on coming.....slowly! 🤷‍♂️
I kind of agree OP - but...well...it's all upto FDev eh?
 

metatheurgist

metatheurgist
Julio Montega said:
It doesn't make much sense though, especially when you look at the criminals operating
Click to expand...
It makes no sense that any pirate would risk a billion dollar ship begging for scraps when vopal and painite fall off rocks like leaves in winter. "My children will go hungry tonight" - yes, because you aren't picking up the billions freely available in any rock anywhere.
 

[VR] DDM_Reaper20

[VR] DDM_Reaper20
Max Factor said:
I can't stand Res sights as they currently work. Nope they don't make sense.

Haz Rez should only be available in anarchy systems.
Click to expand...

There are, to use the quaint expression, "no-go areas" in some German cities these days, where the police, if they go there at all, only dare to go in numbers, as certain groups control these areas -- which happen to be situated in major German cities, mind you. This in spite of Germany not being an anarchy.

It is highly dubious that ANY in-system faction has enough man- and firepower to constantly patrol, let alone control, every nook and cranny of their system. Some areas are bound to be marked as "There Be Dragons" and be done with it.--
 

[VR] DDM_Reaper20

[VR] DDM_Reaper20
metatheurgist said:
It makes no sense that any pirate would risk a billion dollar ship begging for scraps when vopal and painite fall off rocks like leaves in winter. "My children will go hungry tonight" - yes, because you aren't picking up the billions freely available in any rock anywhere.
Click to expand...

They might be like me. I don't like mining. ;)

They could also have a severe aversion to honest work. Stranger things have been known to exist. :D
 
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