In the Beta Spirit...

[M00ka]

I agree that there should be options not to tag anything. I also think that's a bit annoying. But that can be incorporated into the FSS.

Exactly, as I suggested earlier today, why can't the honk only populate the system map with hollow circles, then the player has the choice to continue either using the FSS, flying to manually scan or waking out of the system with nothing scanned or discovered.

Seems a simple solution to me.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

I agree that there should be options not to tag anything. I also think that's a bit annoying. But that can be incorporated into the FSS.

The inconsiderate inclusion of Autoresolve!
That is my BIGGEST gripe and the thing that broke our PG... none of us play now as Exploration was 'our' thing and we were all of the same mind... if you do one do them all.

 

[Riverside]

Exactly, as I suggested earlier today, why can't the honk only populate the system map with hollow circles, then the player has the choice to continue either using the FSS, flying to manually scan or waking out of the system with nothing scanned or discovered.

Seems a simple solution to me.

Or just put it back the way it was (and the way it continues to be in the bubble), even easier

 

[Kelster87]

I've only ever known the FSS, but it took me until recently to start liking it.. I upped the mouse speed and have been much happier with it..

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Exactly, as I suggested earlier today, why can't the honk only populate the system map with hollow circles, then the player has the choice to continue either using the FSS, flying to manually scan or waking out of the system with nothing scanned or discovered.

Seems a simple solution to me.

Being able to target them without the use of the FSS again comes back to the point that it doesn't make any sense to have both in the game world if they don't work together.

The better solution to auto tagging is that there is none. You need to resolve the planets/stars/moons to get a tag.

Much simpler.

 

[Riverside]

The inconsiderate inclusion of Autoresolve!
That is my BIGGEST gripe and the thing that broke our PG... none of us play now as Exploration was 'our' thing and we were all of the same mind... if you do one do them all.

A lot of changes this late into the life of the game created issues for a lot of different playstyles. We see a similar issue with concerns over the mining profit - it has been left as it is so long some players have become accustomed to the higher level of pay. The FSS turned me into a completion scanner, although I now map about as much as I used to DSS so the net effect is that everything just takes a little longer than it used to.

 

[M00ka]

Being able to target them without the use of the FSS again comes back to the point that it doesn't make any sense to have both in the game world if they don't work together.

The better solution to auto tagging is that there is none. You need to resolve the planets/stars/moons to get a tag.

Much simpler.

I think the concept of making sense jumped out of the window before the 3.3 Beta finished. From what I have read over the months, most want the ADS back because they want to target undiscovered bodies and at minimum would like the honk to populate the system map with hollow circles. The current suggestion is that to give the player the option of either using the FSS or manually scanning after the honk. To my muddled (or rubbished) thinking, this concept won't impinge on the current FSS mechanics yet gives those who want to go 'old school' the ability to do so. Just to clarify, it isn't giving back the ADS nor adding modules!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I think the concept of making sense jumped out of the window before the 3.3 Beta finished. From what I have read over the months, most want the ADS back because they want to target undiscovered bodies and at minimum would like the honk to populate the system map with hollow circles. The current suggestion is that to give the player the option of either using the FSS or manually scanning after the honk. To my muddled (or rubbished) thinking, this concept won't impinge on the current FSS mechanics yet gives those who want to go 'old school' the ability to do so. Just to clarify, it isn't giving back the ADS nor adding modules!

It's not about mechanics. It's about in-game lore which to me is very important to the games I play. The more inconsistent it becomes the worse the game is in my view. That's the reason why I really dislike galaxy wide instant telepresence.

 

[Rat Catcher]

A lot of changes this late into the life of the game created issues for a lot of different playstyles. We see a similar issue with concerns over the mining profit - it has been left as it is so long some players have become accustomed to the higher level of pay. The FSS turned me into a completion scanner, although I now map about as much as I used to DSS so the net effect is that everything just takes a little longer than it used to.

An interesting observation.
Pre-3.3, while out 'exploring' using ADS/DSS I'd invariably visit every body in a system, even those with 50+ bodies (there were occasions, not many, when I'd not do so) so reaching my destination would normally take many hours of play (I rarely apply class filters so get lots of M Class!) but at least everything was done

I still scan every body in a virgin system post 3.3, it takes considerably less time than previously as I now only visit 'interesting' (to me) bodies in any particular system, regardless of distance from primary.

In response to a comment earlier, I also frequently 'visit' Sysmap while scanning bigger systems, just to see the layout grow...

So, while finding post-3.3 mechanics has, overall, allowed me the luxury of completely scanning a system and deciding if anything is 'interesting, in general I'm not doing anything I wasn't pre-3.3 apart from 'saving' a little time.

I'll add a caveat, I'm one of the folk for whom Geo resolves in around 6 seconds, with a few of the systems I have visited, even a handful yesterday, if I was waiting 20-30 seconds for each body to resolve I'd be slowed down considerably!

Not advocating either system, I've used both, they both 'do the job' - but I do like, very much, being able to 'find' things

 

[Ezren]

This topic becomes, once again, one of the most posted-in/on current threads.

There's something underlying this that really should be addressed.

No, not really. Posting about it a lot doesn't make it a meaningful topic, it's just easy to argue about because it's just recycling the same thread over and over and over again.

 

[WR3ND]

A lot of changes this late into the life of the game created issues for a lot of different playstyles. We see a similar issue with concerns over the mining profit - it has been left as it is so long some players have become accustomed to the higher level of pay. The FSS turned me into a completion scanner, although I now map about as much as I used to DSS so the net effect is that everything just takes a little longer than it used to.

Unfortunately I don't particularly care for the new DSS mechanics either, so I generally avoid them altogether unless there's something I specifically want to put a first-mapped-by tag on. Chucking poképrobes at worlds was a somewhat interesting novelty for a little bit, but it lost its luster real fast.

I mean, have you guys seen what these things look like?

For me, unfortunately, it's much the same weird, unfitting, detached mini-game feel as the FSS. Something I might expect from a mobile game app or a kids spaceship arcade game from decades past. That is, not something fitting the grandeur and scale of the potential of exploration in this game.

To me, Elite: Dangerous at first seemed like it was going to be the non-compromised sort of sci-fi spaceship game I was looking for that the devs would take their time on and continually improve over the years.

Oh well, you can't win them all.

I've still got the great galaxy sim and world generator to play around with in my spaceships after all.

 

[Ezren]

For me, unfortunately, it's much the same weird, unfitting mini-game feel as the FSS. Something I might expect from a mobile game app or a kids spaceship arcade game from decades past. That is, not something fitting the grandeur and scale of the potential of exploration in this game.

You would expect a kids spaceship arcade game to have a spectrometer and zoom-scan mechanic on a 360º field? That doesn't track at all, it just seems like a lazy way to criticize the FSS. Especially coming away from the ADS "Explore" one-button, which was far more "mobile app/arcadey" than the FSS.

You're saying it should fit the grandeur and scale but that implies, I'm guessing, that it would take time? Complexity? I'm not sure what that is supposed to signify. More than the FSS would seem burdensome and less is "arcadey" so what, then?

 

[WR3ND]

...

I'm not here to argue the validity of my opinions and it's fine if you don't agree with me.

...

That being said, have you seen what they can do with phones these days? They've got these cool 360 degree pictures, live video feeds, and apps you can use.

I even use one to help easily identify worlds and stars in the night sky by just pointing my phone at them within the line of sight. And yeah, I can zoom in and out on it too.

Pretty cool stuff.

Cheers.

 

[Ezren]

I'm not here to argue the validity of my opinions and it's fine if you don't agree with me.

Cheers.

I didn't say anything about not agreeing with you, aside from your misrepresentation of the FSS as a "kids spaceship arcade game", which was far from a constructive comment.

However you made commentary about what you did expect from an exploration mechanic. I wanted to expand on that because it seems like you have a clear expectation.

 

[WR3ND]

I didn't say anything about not agreeing with you, aside from your misrepresentation of the FSS as a "kids spaceship arcade game", which was far from a constructive comment.

However you made commentary about what you did expect from an exploration mechanic. I wanted to expand on that because it seems like you have a clear expectation.

I'd definitely prefer, and have expected in the past, more development in first-person game-play to make me feel like I'm "there," not stuck on a train or in a cubical or whatever messing around on a mobile app. And yeah, sorry to say, but it really does come across to me that way – see the edit in my previous post. Regarding video games of the past, that was more to do with the DSS than FSS.

Cheers.

 

[WR3ND]

Regardless of that though, you are are right that it isn't particularly constructive to this conversion.

I wasn't meaning to stir the pot; just venting a little.

Given what the current mechanics are, and that they now seem like intended game-play from Frontier, I posted my compromise suggestion here. → https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/in-the-beta-spirit.531554/page-14#post-8176639

This doesn't really address my issues with the DSS at all, but I can either save that for another thread, or just avoid using it, as I can get away with using it much more selectively.

Cheers.

 

[Ezren]

I'd definitely prefer, and have expected in the past, more development in first-person game-play to make me feel like I'm "there," not stuck on a train or in a cubical or whatever messing around on a mobile app. And yeah, sorry to say, but it really does come across to me that way – see the edit in my previous post. Regarding video games of the past, that was more to do with the DSS than FSS.

Cheers.

The DSS is more understandable, because that's a fairly static gameplay loop and super simple. You get the odd satisfaction from doing it just right but it's formulaic after a few. I would say it's an improvement over just staring at the planet for a bit, but it's not super engaging.

The issue is almost any mechanic you're applying to detailed scans will get repetitive. Any idea that comes to mind, orbital probes, long-range probes, even using the ship to orbit and scan, falls into that issue. Too much complexity would be a hindrance for an activity that would have to be repeated so many times.

In regards to the FSS, it's pretty "first-person" in terms of perspective, but it's complicated to imagine a more directly interactive way to handle it. If the FSS screen was handled like the galaxy map and the signals were on the 3D plane in the same way (though that's less "first person") it would be a little less spinning and a little more interactive - though I don't know if that's something ED can currently do.

In regards to your second post (not going to double up here), like I said I think the DSS is in the unfortunate position of being in a very repetitive task. Adding challenge mechanics will just feel token after a while - which is the case with landing the probes now. Any minigame is going to feel like a, well, minigame, and otherwise it's just going to be fairly non-interactive.

 

[WR3ND]

I'm not sure why it couldn't be done from first-person from the cockpit using the nav. panel, HUD, and so on instead of a weird external (what I presume is typically referred to as a third-person) camera point of view.

Regarding the DSS, I suppose launching a physical orbiting probe from the cockpit while your ship is at the right speed and trajectory might do well enough. I hear we now have orbital flight autopilot. I haven't used it though. So yeah, maybe something like that would be a possibility. It takes some time before completing its survey, freeing you up to move on to another world in the system in the meantime, land, or whatever. Maybe having the option of going back and picking them up too and/or synthesizing them, to keep your supply of probes stocked up while out in the the black. Hey, maybe even stealing, er, I mean lending them to other players too. Just an idea.

Adding in a bit of "realism" without making it too much of a chore dose seem to greatly expand the game-play possibilities, even just here now while I was thinking this stuff up.

Like I said though, I can settle for just not using the DSS often, if I have to.

 

[Ezren]

I'm not sure why it couldn't be done from first-person from the cockpit using the nav. panel, HUD, and so on instead of a weird external (what I presume is typically referred to as a third-person) camera point of view.

Regarding the DSS, I suppose launching a physical orbiting probe from the cockpit while your ship is at the right speed and trajectory might do well enough. I hear we now have orbital flight autopilot. I haven't used it though. So yeah, maybe something like that would be a possibility. It takes some time before completing its survey, freeing you up to move on to another world in the system in the meantime, land, or whatever. Just an idea.

Like I said, I can settle for just not using the DSS often, if I have to.

If you're using the Supercruise Assist to target a planet or body and you arrive there, you automatically go into orbit around it. From there, you can go into DSS, so those two things actually work together very well, if you haven't tried it.

As for first-person FSS use, that's difficult to address. They could just add some dressing around the outside to make it look like a panel that you're interacting with - I always just saw the cut-away screens (System Map, Galaxy Map, etc) as something projected in the interior of my visor since it's "full screen". I considered the FSS to be like a space-periscope/telescope I was looking through in the same manner.

Exploration is tough because you could literally do it for your entire life and never see every system and combination of things. It's hard to imagine a mechanic that would remain engaging. Maybe just launch DSS probes from the FSS interface, who knows.

Exploration isn't in a terrible spot right now, but the DSS is a little token in its mechanic. It's not terribly complex, but I can see it feeling cumbersome for larger planets. It's hard to balance repetitive and rewarding when it's something that will be used with such varying frequency by players.

 

[WR3ND]

Sorry for the late edits to my previous post. It was a bit of an ongoing thought process I hadn't formulated in my mind previously.

Regarding the FSS, I already made a compromised suggestion in the thread. Frankly, I don't care for it much at all and the dialing in of the bits and bobs makes no real sense to me beyond a weird abstraction and oversimplification of using and aiming radio telescopes or something just for the sake of giving some players something to do.

If some players like spending their time doing that stuff, that's fine with me. I don't get the appeal though. To me it's just a weird sort of playing at being an astronomer sort of mini-game.