Star Citizen Discussion Thread v11

[Jenner]

I would also suggest @Jenner to wait and see if there is any meaningful release related to SQ42 next year aswell at least.

I will not buy back in just yet. We'll see how the next free fly goes, and as you point out how SQ42 fares in 2020.

If I do jump in again I'm going to hold myself to minimal investment though. No more going nuts with ship macrotransactions.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Agree. They seem to have also been quite successful at space ship door and deluxe coffee machine installations at their offices.

And yet none of those things seem to have translated into delivered games yet.

I disagree.

The coffee mechanics were clearly shown in the Carrack part of CitCon so we should have that in a few months. And we have plenty of space ship doors, both buggy and functional.

 

[Zieman]

how SQ42 fares in 2020.

I bet it will do just as well as Fleet Carriers of E: D in 2019.

 

[Viajero]

I will not buy back in just yet. We'll see how the next free fly goes, and as you point out how SQ42 fares in 2020.

If I do jump in again I'm going to hold myself to minimal investment though. No more going nuts with ship macrotransactions.

I think the way and context of how CIG delivers (or doesn’t as the case may be) in its commitment for a verifiable SQ42 beta in 2020 should give everyone (critics and supporters alike) a very good proxy indicator of how this whole ordeal will end.

 

[Sanya V. Juutilainen]

Sorry, that's a load of crock. You are basically implying that somebody who is well paid is, by default, smarter than the rest. That's narrow-minded . I have known extremely well-remunerated people gullible enough to fall for almost everything; I know people who make considerably less than I do who are sharp, and will see through mumbo-jumbo in a heartbeat.

I know plenty of people who love their work, and accept lesser pay because of it. To insult their intelligence by stating that well-paid people are immune . . . right. Take a close look at a great many people with more money than wits (politicians, actors...), and try to say your statement again without wetting your pants from laughing.

You don't even have to look that hard for people who can't manage money even though they make a lot:

Sixty percent of NBA players go broke within five years of departing the league. And 78 percent of former NFL players experience financial distress two years after retirement. Most professional athlete earnings are compressed into just a handful of years.

That apparently includes lots of players who make millions of dollars a year.

 

[Mole HD]

Agree. They seem to have also been quite successful at space ship door and deluxe coffee machine installations at their offices.

And yet amazingly enough none of those things seem to have translated into delivered games yet.

Just to pointlessly add to those flames a bit...It still makes me smile at the constant focus on what can best be described as pure semantics...the PU may not be traditionally released, nor may it ever reach that exalted status held dear by so many of it's detractors, but there's still a hell of a lot of folks playing what's there every night

Sqn 42/54, whatever you want to call it is another matter entirely since nobody has played or even seen it it in any form bar mere snippets as yet...but Sqn42 isn't what's selling all those ships, is it?

I suspect that Sqn 42 will royally bomb on it's first review...but in the scheme of things and despite Ci¬G's desperate efforts to promote it as anything bar the Chris Roberts sideshow it actually is, the PU is what's dragging the customers in and paying for everything as it has since the beginning.

 

[[VR] DDM_Reaper20]

Although I wouldn’t go to the extreme of ruling out a game for lack of VR alone, the fact is VR is one more of the promises made by CR and CIG. CR even had the nerve to ride (for free) the wave of the Rift and Vive initial launches buzz and popularity to assure to us that VR was around the corner in SC at the time... And funds have been pledged on that VR basis.

I also believe, just imo, that a proper and efficient VR implementation is a reasonable proxy (not a guarantee though) for the overall quality and thought given to the design of a game. It commands some “respect”. VR imposes several added complications and limitations to pancake design that devs need to fully consider in combination with everything else, especially if the game has to work in both modes. Not easy.

Sorry. I meant to say, flight sims. I play plenty of games in 2D (BattleTech currently being my new favourite . . . but Elite WILL suck me back in, no doubt...).

The first time I strapped on that HMD, I was hooked. No matter how pretty (expensive) SC vessels are, I am not going to give them a single dime before a) the game is ready to be played by people like me, and b) VR support is added. Which means, never.

 

[[VR] DDM_Reaper20]

You don't even have to look that hard for people who can't manage money even though they make a lot:

Sixty percent of NBA players go broke within five years of departing the league. And 78 percent of former NFL players experience financial distress two years after retirement. Most professional athlete earnings are compressed into just a handful of years.

That apparently includes lots of players who make millions of dollars a year.

Soccer players. National League players can earn millions of Euros per year -- and quite a few of them lose all that dosh really, really quickly, as they lack the brains to hold on to their fortune.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I have a rough idea overall, (it's not as much as you'd think) but I mainly horse trade stuff either on the grey market or melt and CCU stuff on the RSI site for sale on the grey market later. The most I've given Ci¬G directly in the last 6 months is $5...personally, from what I paid for here and there, I generally sell for a small profit back to the grey market...hence why my hangar list changes so often. It's a bit like a side hobby for me, the horse trading bit. Speculate on what ships may be soon to rise in price or go to flyable from concept..then sell the Jpegs or attractive CCU's for a profit at some point .There's a couple of ships I won't sell, namely the Caterpillar and Cutlass...I like them. The Cutlass was my original pledge way back in 2015 and also the ship package I bought back in with, the Cat is just a ship I love.

I've obviously spent over a grand USD (a very small part of the proceeds from a 1930's Rudge I restored and sold)...since the concierge status is from Ci¬G...and you can't get it just from horse trading ships on the grey market. Saying that, if I decided to flog all my stuff on the grey market tomorrow...I stand to make a bit more than I spent. Usual risks involved of course since I could well end up out of pocket or lose it all should Chris Roberts burger off to some non extradition island with my cash

I also have $500 in store credit on the RSI site...from the explorer package I sold that I credited back to my account... as well as a 20% off voucher on any future purchase awarded for a years Imperator subscription (paid for with store credit) plus a few bucks that I had lying around from melts here and there. That'll either buy a new ship to add without spending any more ready cash out of my pocket...the Mole miner comes to mind although I suspect Ci¬G will make that a warbond only sale for new cash only, hence why they're holding it back until after the expo... or I'll use the credit to CCU something else that might be infinitely more saleable on the grey market, you also don't pay VAT on stuff bought with store credit... the horse trading can be more fun than playing Star Citizen a good part of the time.

There's lots of us do it...look on it as a kind of a Star Citizen mini game if you will

Amazing, and all made possible by the grey market.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I bet it will do just as well as Fleet Carriers of E: D in 2019.

That's a double burn!

 

[Mole HD]

Amazing, and all made possible by the grey market.

Made possible by idiots like me who stupidly bought into this dumpster fire more like

Edit: I'll add a mention of a thank you I got from a recent addition to my friends list last night in chat... when I met him a day or so previously, he had said he wanted desperately to buy a Carrack, but at $550, even with 10 years insurance on the RSi store, it was out of the price range he was willing to spend on. I pointed him to the grey market (which he wasn't aware existed) just to open up possibilities...and he managed to find a Carrack CCU with LTI from one of my trusted sellers on Ebay for $250.

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

Whilst it’s fair to say you’re fully aware how much you’ve spent,you can afford it and you’re prepared to lose it. It shouldn’t be possible to spend this sort of money on a video game. Let alone one that isn’t actually finished and all likelihood will fail.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Whilst it’s fair to say you’re fully aware how much you’ve spent,you can afford it and you’re prepared to lose it. It shouldn’t be possible to spend this sort of money on a video game.

Say that to any subscriber of an MMO like WoW or EVE online...

I mean, it does not matter if it is a released game or not, gamers will spend money on season passes, monthly payments, or MTX's.

EDIT:

Not to mention, what IS possible to spend silly amount of money on then?

Models, paints and miniatures during 10+ years...I think i reached 2000 USD there without any problems.

ANY hobby regardless of what it is will be a money sink and when someone says something should no be possible it has already been done.

 

[Mole HD]

Whilst it’s fair to say you’re fully aware how much you’ve spent,you can afford it and you’re prepared to lose it. It shouldn’t be possible to spend this sort of money on a video game. Let alone one that isn’t actually finished and all likelihood will fail.

Meh, I might have actually liked golf, RC planes or fishing or something. I don't tend to dwell on the politics or expectations of it too much, that's a certain route to unhappiness or madness. I can only offer that Star Citizen is a hobby...certainly a strange one by any standards...but for myself and many others I've spoken to over the period I've been involved with it, it's no more than that nor is it any more relatively expensive than the couple I mentioned.

If you go searching for sane reasons not to like something or dwell on the inherant risks of pursuing it...I'm sure most of the things we enjoy would suffer because of it.

My tuppence worth, rightly or wrongly

 

[Sanya V. Juutilainen]

Say that to any subscriber of an MMO like WoW or EVE online...

I mean, it does not matter if it is a released game or not, gamers will spend money on season passes, monthly payments, or MTX's.

EDIT:

Not to mention, what IS possible to spend silly amount of money on then?

Models, paints and miniatures during 10+ years...I think i reached 2000 USD there without any problems.

ANY hobby regardless of what it is will be a money sink and when someone says something should no be possible it has already been done.

I am a bit impartial to this. Yes, I think spending for hobby is okay - I personally spend a lot on anime figures, I also spent a lot on WoT and Elite. On the other hand, I am really, really doubtful whether being a playtester should be something you should pay for - and that's what SC "players" are, just alpha testers. CI should be paying them, not the other way around. If I pay for something, I expect it to work - and my figures (which I can resell, even), WoT and Elite all suffice there (with reasonable margin of error for online software, like when it's update day, I expect to be downloading the patch and not play for the most part).

 

[Snarfbuckle]

I am a bit impartial to this. Yes, I think spending for hobby is okay - I personally spend a lot on anime figures, I also spent a lot on WoT and Elite. On the other hand, I am really, really doubtful whether being a playtester should be something you should pay for - and that's what SC "players" are, just alpha testers. CI should be paying them, not the other way around. If I pay for something, I expect it to work - and my figures (which I can resell, even), WoT and Elite all suffice there (with reasonable margin of error for online software, like when it's update day, I expect to be downloading the patch and not play for the most part).

Well, it's no different in that case from an early access title since those are also as their name implies, incomplete titles.

We knew going in that the game is in an incomplete state so we should not expect it to work when it's not done.
Same with buying into Elite a year before release and joining the Beta.

If they where fully released games then I agree that the game should work out of the box, but in those cases we expect the game to work since we purchase what is sold as a complete product.

Not to mention, it's completely voluntary.

 

[jmp470]

I ended up buying the Prospector yesterday and doing 6 total Mining runs. Well, it didn’t go so well for me

2 face plants into the planet. Flying down to the surface at night seems to be harder than it should be for me!!
1 interdiction, where I thought I could take on the BUCC. Well I couldn’t!
1 attempt at FP Mining where the rock blew me up

1 run for 975 credits
1 run for 3404 credits


I will say, I really like mining. It is relaxing and fun and the mini game is engaging.

I’m not sure I want to keep the Prospector, as my thoughts on buying ships Has changed significantly!

 

[Sanya V. Juutilainen]

Well, it's no different in that case from an early access title since those are also as their name implies, incomplete titles.

We knew going in that the game is in an incomplete state so we should not expect it to work when it's not done.
Same with buying into Elite a year before release and joining the Beta.

If they where fully released games then I agree that the game should work out of the box, but in those cases we expect the game to work since we purchase what is sold as a complete product.

Not to mention, it's completely voluntary.

First, I don't join EA games and I don't think anyone should. So yes, I agree with you. Nobody should give money to those.
Second, many people apparently don't know the game is in incomplete state, they say the game is fully playable and can be released any day. You overestimate players' knowledge and hype here.
Third, yes, nobody should've bought into Elite - and they didn't have to. I bought Elite as a normal released game (can you do that with SC?). I disagree with beta, though - beta is for player testing (you can't reasonably test some stuff, like networking, without players) and when it's done properly (short free beta before release), I have no issues with it.

"If they where fully released games then I agree that the game should work out of the box, but in those cases we expect the game to work since we purchase what is sold as a complete product."
Which is why it baffles me that people pay thousands of dollars for incomplete product and then defend it from others, saying how complete is.

"Not to mention, it's completely voluntary."
Voluntary with a shade of vulture marketing and abuse of FOMO. You know casinos are completely voluntary, yet that doesn't make them morally alright when they take the last money from someone, no matter how voluntarily they gave them to the casino.

 

[hairychris]

Crikey, go away for a few days & there's a lot to catch up on.

For those that haven't seen it, this was the BBC's previous video on Star Citizen, back in Feb 2016:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0Jmywv3QjQ

A good drinking game for the Click "investigation" video will be to drink a shot every time they use the word "ambitious"

For those of you not of a British disposition, the word "ambitious" is often used to imply "and we'll believe it when we see it" as opposed to the less cynical approach that some other English-speaking cultures may take.

And the more times the word is used the less trust one should put in said project ever completing!

hey stop comparing SC to jet set willy, at least JSW was a great game, hell even horace goes skiing was better than SC

Ah yes, Jet Set Willy (aka Wet Set Jelly for those old Sinclair User readers) that was famously bugged so was impossible to complete.

And Horace Goes Skiing was hideous, although it was a released product.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Crikey, go away for a few days & there's a lot to catch up on.




For those of you not of a British disposition, the word "ambitious" is often used to imply "and we'll believe it when we see it" as opposed to the less cynical approach that some other English-speaking cultures may take.

And the more times the word is used the less trust one should put in said project ever completing!



Ah yes, Jet Set Willy (aka Wet Set Jelly for those old Sinclair User readers) that was famously bugged so was impossible to complete.

And Horace Goes Skiing was hideous, although it was a released product.

Kennedy Approach was quite good tho. Even had voice over coming from that lil speaker iirc.