In the Beta Spirit...

Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
That's no argument Burke, that's the umphteens repetition of a statement. I could very well say "NO" and selling that as an "argument" to you.

Supposing you say no and people just keep discussing it anyway? I dont mind if you want to say no but im going to step away cause this is way off the topic of fronter giving explorers an extra special christmas gift of "the ADS patch" They could call it "the return!" ;)
 
You present your arguments in conversation :) My point is that there was no good reason to remove the ADS and no good reason not to just put it back and let people have their fun in whats left of this games lifetime.
The good reason is that it's crap and would make little sense game lore wise.

As it is now removed, there is no good reason for Fdev to put it back.
 
There was an argument that someone did not pay to get it removed. I would like to point out that I paid to not have the ADS in the first place. Who is most right? Also, most importantly, what's the SI unit for this particular kind of being-right-ness?

:D S
 
The good reason is that it's crap and would make little sense game lore wise.

As it is now removed, there is no good reason for Fdev to put it back.
A good reason for not using it is because it's crap... like autodock, like the E rated anything really, and I'm sure there's other stuff too, but some out there use these things even though they're not compulsory and (in most cases) take up space, but they haven't been removed from the game because there's no reason to remove choice from a game that has so little in storyline and the re-introduction of the ADS would satisfy some players and those that didn't like it 'because it's crap' would have no need of one.
 
There was an argument that someone did not pay to get it removed. I would like to point out that I paid to not have the ADS in the first place. Who is most right? Also, most importantly, what's the SI unit for this particular kind of being-right-ness?

:D S
I have to agree in part, my 2nd and 3rd accounts (3rd is not active yet, awaiting FC's) were bought post 3.3 - I bought a game with ALL of the current features (and bugs) not to have some 'redundant' module foisted upon me from the dim, distant past of the game... Granted my main account was pre-3.3 and I was 'gifted' both an extra module slot and new mechanics a year ago so will not complain about that.

Those who dislike the forced change from ADS to DSS will continue to campaign for its reinstatement, no-one can force them to desist as they believe it didn't actually need to be removed so will vociferously defend the right to ask for it back, that's fine...

I imagine that, until those voices become a majority, the developers will not give the requests too much credence. But I can't be certain :)
 
A good reason for not using it is because it's crap... like autodock, like the E rated anything really, and I'm sure there's other stuff too, but some out there use these things even though they're not compulsory and (in most cases) take up space, but they haven't been removed from the game because there's no reason to remove choice from a game that has so little in storyline and the re-introduction of the ADS would satisfy some players and those that didn't like it 'because it's crap' would have no need of one.
They didn't remove choice from the game. They replaced one way with another way. But I am all up for more choices as long as it makes some kind of sense regarding ED lore.
 
I have to agree in part, my 2nd and 3rd accounts (3rd is not active yet, awaiting FC's) were bought post 3.3 - I bought a game with ALL of the current features (and bugs) not to have some 'redundant' module foisted upon me from the dim, distant past of the game... Granted my main account was pre-3.3 and I was 'gifted' both an extra module slot and new mechanics a year ago so will not complain about that.

Those who dislike the forced change from ADS to DSS will continue to campaign for its reinstatement, no-one can force them to desist as they believe it didn't actually need to be removed so will vociferously defend the right to ask for it back, that's fine...

I imagine that, until those voices become a majority, the developers will not give the requests too much credence. But I can't be certain :)
I can't imagine those voices will ever be the majority as new accounts are opened every day, those voices will without doubt dwindle as players that aren't happy cut their ties with the game entirely and or simply die, perhaps FdDev are hoping for this... kinda ride out the storm (or in this case squall) but Frontier Developments should remember that as well as product loyalty there is product disloyalty... and they have more than one product.
 
They didn't remove choice from the game. They replaced one way with another way. But I am all up for more choices as long as it makes some kind of sense regarding ED lore.
There was a choice... BDS, IDS, ADS, there were three units and now there is ONE!
And to make it more palatable for the likes of those more easily persuaded they candy coated it with chocolate and sprinkles... "it's free, it's massless, it's slotless,
but it isn't a choice
 
I can't imagine those voices will ever be the majority as new accounts are opened every day, those voices will without doubt dwindle as players that aren't happy cut their ties with the game entirely and or simply die, perhaps FdDev are hoping for this... kinda ride out the storm (or in this case squall) but Frontier Developments should remember that as well as product loyalty there is product disloyalty... and they have more than one product.
Those supporting the return of the ADS appear to be, in the main, still playing the game regularly - whilst disliking the current mechanic - and are unlikely to leave the game they are so passionate about, so the topic is equally unlikely to die either.

It is true (as illustrated by my 2 'new' accounts) that players coming into the game post-3.3 will have known no other system and either accept the game 'as-is' or abandon it, no doubt wondering, if they visit the forum, just what this device was to make it so attractive.

As for loyalty, ED is the only game from Frontier in my collection, the remainder of their 'stable' have no appeal for me - I'm not sure if that makes me an exception so can only speak from a very narrow perspective, if ED changed in a way that I felt it was no longer the game I bought it would be abandoned, as around 100 games in my library have been, but wouldn't prevent me buying from the same publisher should another 'interesting' product be offered.

ED, despite its 'bugged' recent history, does attract passionate players and we won't always agree with each other when things are changed, even if at the end of the day we continue to play despite the changes.
 
Those supporting the return of the ADS appear to be, in the main, still playing the game regularly - whilst disliking the current mechanic - and are unlikely to leave the game they are so passionate about, so the topic is equally unlikely to die either.
Quite. Plenty of veteran explorers still play, they just play less than they used to. Plenty have left though. In the end, however, if you asked them, the ones who explored the most and are thus most impacted by the change, how they would react if the honk revealed the system map again (not auto-scanning anything at infinite range, that concept was new to the FSS), even if it required fitting more modules or whatever other compromise, I'd safely bet that the overwhelming majority would be in favour of that. Whether those who left would return just for this, though, I'm not so sure about. For many, the way the FSS was forced on explorers without any regard to feedback was the final straw, and the dashed expectations of the "exploration update" in general, but not the only issues for why they quit. Thousands of people who went on DW2 quit exploring afterward (or during the expedition), so it's also not like they just didn't give the "new" exploration a fair try.

I'm saying it's "new" because the new Chapter Four content is both so bugged and of low enough quality that few people care about it. From what I can tell, not only are very few explorers out there who focus on it (could count them on one hand), but few had ever focused on it beyond the beta. So what still interests most is the galaxy itself, not the hand-crafted content sprinkled at a few small places. So if Frontier would give people a choice of what tools they could use? I believe most would be positive towards that and wouldn't argue against it, and especially those who've explored a lot.
Besides, even from those who don't, how many are vocally anti-choice? Three or four maybe?

Of course, Frontier won't change things with exploration for the foreseeable future because they aren't even fixing bugs, but I wouldn't count on them not changing anything later. And while they did post one time that they are happy with how the FSS is (good for them, many aren't), I wouldn't count on that being final. Plus it's not like they would keep closing threads whenever this issue resurfaces again.


Oh, and a bit of clarification on the new content being bugged, for those who don't know. This is mostly about NSPs, not surface stuff, although a few times, those vanish as well. How does discovery (not) work there?

First, suppose you were lucky enough to stumble upon an NSP area. Most of them are quite small (except three that cover their entire region), and were either hand-places near areas of other interest (such as Colonia, or the farthest system South, or near the end of the Outer Arm) or appear to have been put somewhere by random. If you entered an NSP system, you also have to be lucky enough for the NSPs to actually spawn, because there are times they don't, and you have to relog a couple of times to actually see them. So if you wanted to make sure you didn't miss any, you'd have to relog in each and every system you visit - ouch! Good luck finding anyone like that.

Second, suppose you were lucky enough to find an NSP that did actually spawn. You fly there, see the things in there, and perhaps you found something that isn't on the Codex: something new! Excellent. You try targetting it to scan it... and you can't. Or you can target it, but you can't use the composition scanner on it. The outcome either way is that it won't appear on the Codex. Turns out that you might not have even been the first to discover these, it's just bugged and you can't tell.
Then even if the scanner does work as it should, there are also times when the new finds don't actually register with the global Codex. They'll register on your end until you log out, but after that, it's back to the same status as before.

So yeah, there we go. Is it any wonder that many people quit exploring, when the new content what most people were looking forward to turned out to be like this? Then there's the quality of said content too, when it does actually work as intended. You find a few things, visit them once, and have no reason to do so again. If you were lucky enough to find something new that actually worked, you get your tag in the Codex, but otherwise, all you get are a meager amount of credits. The content itself is what I call "Youtube material": thing that might be worth seeing once, but is almost as good seeing on someone else's video as it is seeing for yourself. (Unlike Guardian or Thargoid sites, which are great to drive around in yourself.) Some of the edge cases of the procedurally generated content are also worth seeing for yourself, and unlike the hand-crafted stuff, you know these won't run out, so you can find your own. (The handmade content generally runs out within a month or two of its launch, if not sooner.)
 
The only one howling at the moon is you.
My words speak for themselves.

Your commentary and interpretation of them are just your vain efforts to misrepresent them.
I pointed out your contradictions and instead of saying anything to clarify those statements, you just repeat "misrepresentation" in the fact of my directly quoting those words, plain as day; some of these "misrepresentations" were literally showing your own posts next to one another. You're not engaged in an argument, you're just disagreeing with people you see as opposed to your opinion - and often stepped on your own words in the process. You don't seem to understand the difference.
 
Quite. Plenty of veteran explorers still play, they just play less than they used to. Plenty have left though. In the end, however, if you asked them
You know, I have to call attention to the fact that there's a lot of speaking for other people being done by those who don't like the FSS. "A lot" of people, "plenty of" explorers, "many" of the players.

So much referencing this unseen crowd of people who agree and using that as a platform to claim some argumentative high ground. It must be very convenient to be able to just make up people and situations to support an argument.

Making up people who agree with you is just about the same as making another account to like your own posts on social media.
 
The good reason is that it's crap and would make little sense game lore wise.

As it is now removed, there is no good reason for Fdev to put it back.

Lore means nothing to this game. The reason to put it back is that its removal spoiled the game for some people. The whole thing has just been detrimental to the game and frontier, its been completely not worth digging in over.
 
Lore means nothing to this game. The reason to put it back is that its removal spoiled the game for some people. The whole thing has just been detrimental to the game and frontier, its been completely not worth digging in over.
That's just your subjective opinion. Lore means nothing to you. It does to me.
 
Last edited:
There was a choice... BDS, IDS, ADS, there were three units and now there is ONE!
And to make it more palatable for the likes of those more easily persuaded they candy coated it with chocolate and sprinkles... "it's free, it's massless, it's slotless,
but it isn't a choice
Lol. You really calling that a choice? That's the same choice as using an E rated module as opposed to an A.

There was no real choice. As soon as you can afford it, you got the ADS and never went back as it made no sense to get the less useful versions.

As to it being free, no issues with that. It makes sense as its needed for most parts of the game. As to mass less, I am assuming the mass is included in the mass of the ship as it is built into each ship. Makes sense to me.
 
I pointed out your contradictions and instead of saying anything to clarify those statements, you just repeat "misrepresentation" in the fact of my directly quoting those words, plain as day; some of these "misrepresentations" were literally showing your own posts next to one another. You're not engaged in an argument, you're just disagreeing with people you see as opposed to your opinion - and often stepped on your own words in the process. You don't seem to understand the difference.

Sorry Ezren, but reductionism is an argument for simpletons, and I give our forum audience more credit than that.
  • The ADS was extremely useful - I used the initial map to decide whether to stay and explore more.
  • The ADS was not detailed - it did not contain the 'detailed' body information from the DSS, including in-game proof of body type.
  • That the ADS did too much was a valid criticism prior to 3.3 - my proposed Black Body solution would have toned it down by removing the planet images and reserved any indication of body type to the FSS.
None of these statements are contradictory unless you insist on a childish black and white mindset to all things where the ADS can only be good or bad.
 
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom