Ochosi Ganker Block Dance makes me feel dirty.

[Rat Catcher]

I'm sorry cmdr, but purple hair is just plain wrong. Don't expect any friends, you deserve to be blocked, in fact, there shud be C&P repercussions. Sort it out!

Or just 'blend-in' and make your avatar grotesque...

Best of all worlds
(I was going to enter this one into the Halloween competition...)

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

This is probably the best observation of the situation I've ever read!
I don't get bothered, I play, others play, we may or may not ever coincide - no issue

There you go. It's just a game. We're flying pixel space ships. If players want to block, let them block. If they want to gank, let them gank. If players get their self worth from playing games ... that's fine too!

 

[Bryan K]

The limit on PG member numbers is in the region of 5,000 which is almost as many total Elite players as there are online at any given time so that doesn't seem to be a very accurate reason.

Actually it’s 20,000, and the three Mobius groups are nearly filled to capacity. As for Steam numbers, that’s a fallacy that’s been explained many, many, many times here.

 

[Bigmaec]

Actually it’s 20,000, and the three Mobius groups are nearly filled to capacity. As for Steam numbers, that’s a fallacy that’s been explained many, many, many times here.

The 20k&filled is correct, but they incorporate many members like me who fly nearly open only, so those numbers are all inconclusive.
Only FD has the "correct" numbers. Even that often cited "open has more members of all modes blah" statement isn't conclusive to be fair.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The 20k&filled is correct, but they incorporate many members like me who fly nearly open only, so those numbers are all inconclusive.
Only FD has the "correct" numbers. Even that often cited "open has more members of all modes blah" statement isn't conclusive to be fair.

Which means that private groups are not an adequate replacement for a PvE Open Mode. Now, I don't want an Open Mode, just saying: there already is one, it's called Private Group is wrong as well.

What is the case is, we all make compromises whichever preference we have. When I go in Open, I make the compromise of having to deal with players whose player interaction vocabulary exists of one word: pew. The compromise those players have to deal with is the ability to be blocked.

There is no, one solution fits all solution. I feel an Open PvE mode has more drawbacks than the block mechanism. Open is not the exclusive territory of PvPers.

 

[Chaparral]

Partitioned gameplay is the exact opposite of organic PvP, which is the sort of PvP that should suit this kind of game perfectly.

There are oodles of games with pvp designated servers that are pvp all the time. These games also offer pve servers as well. I play on both in those games. "Organic" pvp on pvp designated servers happens all the time. It does not happen on PVE servers at all, unless pve server players go to designated zones/instances or use flagged dueling.

If you mean "organic" pvp is pvp players get to attack pve players without restriction, I think we have a mismatch in our understanding of the historical treatment of pvp and pve partitioning in mmos.

FDEV built a busted system that did not include effective partitioning and did not included robust enough instancing to allow for community policing. As a weak afterthought bandaide, we have blocking. You and I have chatted about this before. I think we know our positions. You want the universe dangerous for everyone all the time. I think that is completely valid.

Some want a univese that makes sense within the limitations of the game's structures of p2p, slow ineffective policing, small instance sizes, combat logging, snare and cripple mechanics without counters, burst dps, assymmetry in skill etc. etc. In other words, a recognition that this is a game and people have different expectations of what the game can and should deliver.

The block mechanic is a crappy tool to create a pve game universe and preserve social interaction. I think it is bad design, I feel bad when I use it to achieve open pve when I desire that type of game play. It places the onus on the player to modify the game to a state that should be a core offering consistent with the history in the genre.

This is old news. I just feel particularly gross these days feeling that I can "smell" a ganker from 5000 ls. That isn't cool. It diminishes the quality and possibility of positive social interaction.

 

[EUS]

Are there any players who feel they're being a brave CMDR?

Only the ones who play akin to how they live; TO THE MAX!!!111!!

 

[photomankc]

In a way the blocking feature is cheating somebody out of their gameplay tho. If two people who both paid the same amount for the game exist in the game world and no rules are being broken, then why should one have the ability to exclude the other? Seems somehow unfair to me.

Without agreeing with his mechanics, bull. Nobody in the game owes you one minute of their time in any way shape or form. No more valid than insisting casual weekend players are stealing your gameplay.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Are there any players who feel they're being a brave CMDR?

Only when coming in to land...

 

[Stigbob]

So there's a big crowd at Ochosi doing the fed rank run.

This inevitibly draws Player Killers looking for fun. That's the game. No judgement.

I'm flying a PVE Phantom running g5 modded LR pulse lasers, about 1k shields, about 1k hull with modded hull and mod reinforcements. Just a basic functional ship with decent range and decent boost speed (560 ish boost). I'm not concerned about any NPC in the game, but this is not a competitive ship in any pvp encounter. I can do the dance to escape gankers that interdict me with very little concern.

Lately, as soon as I pop into a system, and see my bandwidth pop up, I look around for ship types. If it's an FDL or FAS in a situation like this rep run, I don't even bother to deal with it any more.

I throttle down, emergency stop, find the contact, BLOCK, restart the game, get back to farming whatever.

It's no secret that C&P is not an effective deterrent, and I honestly don't feel like the player has any moral shortcomings at all. This is a video game, and the guy or girl is playing within the rules.

I just feel so gross that this is the most functional mechanic to address the gameplay mismatch.

I wonder what Elite 2.0 will look like in handling this. I sincerely hope it's better than what we have now.

FDEV already fixed this thanks to the modes design, you are just implementing it wrong. Join mobius or another PVE group, they already provide open PVE which seems to be exactly what you are after.

Blocking anyone who flies an FDL or an FAS seems way way OTT and too much like hard work, I fly both yet I've never been tempted by either player killing or ganking.

You have the tools to solve this for yourself, just stop trying to hammer nails in with a screwdriver.

 

[Old Duck]

Are there any players who feel they're being a brave CMDR?

I'm the bravest man on this earth. Bask in my masculinity!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Basking as ordered, sir!

 

[Ezren]

There are oodles of games with pvp designated servers that are pvp all the time. These games also offer pve servers as well. I play on both in those games. "Organic" pvp on pvp designated servers happens all the time. It does not happen on PVE servers at all, unless pve server players go to designated zones/instances or use flagged dueling.

If you mean "organic" pvp is pvp players get to attack pve players without restriction, I think we have a mismatch in our understanding of the historical treatment of pvp and pve partitioning in mmos.

FDEV built a busted system that did not include effective partitioning and did not included robust enough instancing to allow for community policing. As a weak afterthought bandaide, we have blocking. You and I have chatted about this before. I think we know our positions. You want the universe dangerous for everyone all the time. I think that is completely valid.

Some want a univese that makes sense within the limitations of the game's structures of p2p, slow ineffective policing, small instance sizes, combat logging, snare and cripple mechanics without counters, burst dps, assymmetry in skill etc. etc. In other words, a recognition that this is a game and people have different expectations of what the game can and should deliver.

The block mechanic is a crappy tool to create a pve game universe and preserve social interaction. I think it is bad design, I feel bad when I use it to achieve open pve when I desire that type of game play. It places the onus on the player to modify the game to a state that should be a core offering consistent with the history in the genre.

This is old news. I just feel particularly gross these days feeling that I can "smell" a ganker from 5000 ls. That isn't cool. It diminishes the quality and possibility of positive social interaction.

It took either a gross misunderstanding or a total disregard of what Morbad said to arrive at the response that you delivered.

 

[Chaparral]

It took either a gross misunderstanding or a total disregard of what Morbad said to arrive at the response that you delivered.

Enlighten me please. Clearly I am incapable of deep consideration of such subtleties.

 

[Ezren]

Enlighten me please. Clearly I am incapable of deep consideration of such subtleties.

Ah, sarcasm, it's like the dollar-store version of wit.

Comparing Elite's PvP to a game with a totally different structure is a huge mistake, right off the bat. The specifics largely don't matter because there's very few games where the consequences and situations would be akin to what happens in Elite. So those anecdotal examples are out the window.

Expecting partitioned gameplay to result in organic PvP situations is like expecting to meet hot singles in your area by clicking on a banner ad. Organic PvP isn't going to much work if everyone has to shake hands before it can start.

 

[Chaparral]

FDEV already fixed this thanks to the modes design, you are just implementing it wrong. Join mobius or another PVE group, they already provide open PVE which seems to be exactly what you are after.

Blocking anyone who flies an FDL or an FAS seems way way OTT and too much like hard work, I fly both yet I've never been tempted by either player killing or ganking.

You have the tools to solve this for yourself, just stop trying to hammer nails in with a screwdriver.

I flew in both during this event. The total number of players in open is vastly greater. I had 2 Mobius PVE encounters in 2 hours, and about 10 in Open in the same time. You're right about the overzealous use of blocking based on ship type of course. I agree completely. It's a cost benefit analysis that is crude, clumsy and screws up instancing for wings, etc. I don't like it.

 

[Morbad]

If you mean "organic" pvp is pvp players get to attack pve players without restriction, I think we have a mismatch in our understanding of the historical treatment of pvp and pve partitioning in mmos.

Indeed we do. I feel that you are likely including games that I would put in entirely different genre from Elite: Dangerous and looking to them for exemplars on how ED could be 'improved'.

Yes, there may be some PvP servers in some of these games that have some degree of organic PvP, but for most of them PvP is the entire point of playing on those servers, and everything else just a stepping stone to testing one's characters or groups in combat with others. If PvP is baked into gameplay by forcing sides to be chosen or by there being nothing to do with other player character other than to fight them, it's not organic.

Ultimately, I don't think the sort of PvE/PvP distinction you're looking for is really compatible with the sort of game ED was supposed to be.

You want the universe dangerous for everyone all the time.

I don't think the ED universe is particularly dangerous most of the time. It's that danger could be there at any time that is part of the appeal of Open.

Some want a univese that makes sense within the limitations of the game's structures of p2p, slow ineffective policing, small instance sizes, combat logging, snare and cripple mechanics without counters, burst dps, assymmetry in skill etc. etc.

Everything that is a problem there is still a problem in the absence of PvP.

In other words, a recognition that this is a game and people have different expectations of what the game can and should deliver.

The game should probably pick a side rather than trying to cater to highly disparate outlooks.

The block mechanic is a crappy tool to create a pve game universe and preserve social interaction. I think it is bad design, I feel bad when I use it to achieve open pve when I desire that type of game play. It places the onus on the player to modify the game to a state that should be a core offering consistent with the history in the genre.

The block mechanism isn't there to create a PvE game.

This is old news. I just feel particularly gross these days feeling that I can "smell" a ganker from 5000 ls. That isn't cool. It diminishes the quality and possibility of positive social interaction.

Expecting the worst then throwing blocks around that exclude your CMDR from far more than just those you've blocked is almost certainly not conducive to positive social interaction, even if it can occasionally minimize the negative interaction.

 

[Stigbob]

I flew in both during this event. The total number of players in open is vastly greater. I had 2 Mobius PVE encounters in 2 hours, and about 10 in Open in the same time. You're right about the overzealous use of blocking based on ship type of course. I agree completely. It's a cost benefit analysis that is crude, clumsy and screws up instancing for wings, etc. I don't like it.

So stop doing the thing you don't like.

Its not like evading a gank is difficult at all. I can do it in an e-rated sidey.

 

[Chaparral]

Ah, sarcasm, it's like the dollar-store version of wit.

Comparing Elite's PvP to a game with a totally different structure is a huge mistake, right off the bat. The specifics largely don't matter because there's very few games where the consequences and situations would be akin to what happens in Elite. So those anecdotal examples are out the window.

Expecting partitioned gameplay to result in organic PvP situations is like expecting to meet hot singles in your area by clicking on a banner ad. Organic PvP isn't going to much work if everyone has to shake hands before it can start.

Yeah, you're pretty much wrong. ED is not some thoughful grandiose icon with groundbreaking interpretation on the mmo model. Its a B level developer scraping by with barely functional multiplayer, that has pvp ish features that are actually fully developed by triple A houses. You really have zero experience of cash serious pvp where actual rewards are on the line for competing. Don't feel bad bro. You keep flying that ship and being real scary and "organic".

 

[Bigmaec]

Yeah, you're pretty much wrong. ED is not some thoughful grandiose icon with groundbreaking interpretation on the mmo model. Its a B level developer scraping by with barely functional multiplayer, that has pvp ish features that are actually fully developed by triple A houses. You really have zero experience of cash serious pvp where actual rewards are on the line for competing. Don't feel bad bro. You keep flying that ship and being real scary and "organic".

But it has a triple A block function