Turret damage?

[Morbad]

Regarding modules panel - it is likely that it doesn't refresh unless triggered to do so. e.g. the comms friends list requires you to switch between tabs or exit/re-enter the comms panel to refresh when a friend is coming online, checking for new CMDRs in history etc.

It's a UI bug that has been gradually getting worse for years.

Pretty much everything in the UI that could change used to reliably update in real time. Back around 2.3-2.4 I started noticing things like the SRV recall timer freezing, then module status not updating, etc.

I'm pretty sure the middlewear (Scaleform?) they originally used for the UI stuff stopped being supported a while back and they've been having issues ever since.

 

[galahad2069]

That (the chance of on-hit malfunctions being dependent on the number of hits, as opposed to the damage) explains the strange behaviour I experienced in a wingfight about one or two months ago (the one that made us do the powerplant malfunction tests back then).

Veggie was shooting at me in that fight with pulse lasers, one of them scramble spectrum. I was out of heatsinks and I was in a virtually constant malfunction state. I thought it was the scramble spectrum effect, I mean I thought it was bugged (no cooldown and always affecting the power plant), when actually he must have been targetting my power plant which was under 80% integrity apparently, and since he had rapid fire lasers, he must have hit the plant very frequently. He might have as well left the scramble spectrum one at the station, it could have worked without it all the same.

This seems to make RF pulses very unbalanced BTW (if you manage to work the plant down to 80% first, that is). The possibility of a constant 40% malfunction is not something I'd call enjoyable gameplay.

 

[KW001]

Whats the likelihood of a phased scramble spectrum penetrating a pve hull tank vette with 40% thermal res shields, 6600+ hull with 53% thermal res, and 3 mrps (occasionally 4 mrps, and yeah I know thats overkill but that size 1 slot isnt worth wasting G5 heavy duty mats on), hitting a G5 armoured pp (no integrity specials, if that even matters) and triggering the 40% power output malfunction?

In the (these days) rare event I encounter a pvper, I engineered my power output and priorities to keep my cores under 40%, and weapons under 50%. At the moment shields on priority 3 takes the power to the 52% mark, I think, but if a phased scrambler has a respectable chance of hitting the pp, I reckon I can swap weapon priorities around with the shields and still keep it under 40%. Currently got thermal spread on the pp, but can swap that to monstered if need be.

 

[galahad2069]

Whats the likelihood of a phased scramble spectrum penetrating a pve hull tank vette with 40% thermal res shields, 6600+ hull with 53% thermal res, and 3 mrps (occasionally 4 mrps, and yeah I know thats overkill but that size 1 slot isnt worth wasting G5 heavy duty mats on), hitting a G5 armoured pp (no integrity specials, if that even matters) and triggering the 40% power output malfunction?

In the (these days) rare event I encounter a pvper, I engineered my power output and priorities to keep my cores under 40%, and weapons under 50%. At the moment shields on priority 3 takes the power to the 52% mark, I think, but if a phased scrambler has a respectable chance of hitting the pp, I reckon I can swap weapon priorities around with the shields and still keep it under 40%. Currently got thermal spread on the pp, but can swap that to monstered if need be.

Lasers are not the best weapons to snipe out modules, but it's certainly doable. But NPC's tend to die because of the hull damage before a larger power plant could reach 0% integrity though (iirc).

But with rails it's pretty easy to snipe out multiple modules on large NPC ships. Also a well placed PA shot can work wonders

 

[Morbad]

Not done processing yet (will be 4k60 when it is), but even at 360p, you should be able to see what's going on:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK7vXk82MjY

This seems to make RF pulses very unbalanced BTW (if you manage to work the plant down to 80% first, that is). The possibility of a constant 40% malfunction is not something I'd call enjoyable gameplay.

With low numbers of opponents it's usually not hard to keep them off a combat vessel's PP, but with sufficient focus fire, someone is going to have a clear shot. It's one of the reasons most of my hybrid vessels (aside from my Vulture or anything using EPTs, for obvious reasons) can keep regenerating through malfunctions.

Does make sheilds down combat that much more risky and defensive than it would otherwise be.

Whats the likelihood of a phased scramble spectrum penetrating a pve hull tank vette with 40% thermal res shields, 6600+ hull with 53% thermal res, and 3 mrps (occasionally 4 mrps, and yeah I know thats overkill but that size 1 slot isnt worth wasting G5 heavy duty mats on), hitting a G5 armoured pp (no integrity specials, if that even matters) and triggering the 40% power output malfunction?

In the (these days) rare event I encounter a pvper, I engineered my power output and priorities to keep my cores under 40%, and weapons under 50%. At the moment shields on priority 3 takes the power to the 52% mark, I think, but if a phased scrambler has a respectable chance of hitting the pp, I reckon I can swap weapon priorities around with the shields and still keep it under 40%. Currently got thermal spread on the pp, but can swap that to monstered if need be.

You can't put phasing and scramble on the same weapon and phasing pulse disruptors cannot induce malfunctions through shields.

Once shields are down, scramble will build up to an effect threshold at a rate based on damage (or possibly size, I'm not 100% sure) then cause a malfunction to a random module on the hemisphere of the ship it last hit. It doesn't need to hit anything specific to do this.

Pulse disruptors need to actually strike the module in question, so penetration depth and breach chances come into play. A pulse laser cannot penetrate to hit a corvette's power plant except from above or below the ship at a moderately steep angle, or perhaps dead on from the rear. The vette's core internals are quite well protected from the front and sides. Anyway, if they have the angle to meet the required depth then the per-shot breach chance comes into play, which is dependent on percentage of hull remaining; 100% hull means the weapon is at minimum breach chance, 0% hull means maximum, and I believe the slope between is linear.

 

[photomankc]

So understanding how the game developers want to push the game-play I get it but when applied to the big three it feels a bit.... dumb. Like you have a Coast Guard Cutter sized vehicle mounting fixed machine guns on it's bow and getting into maneuvering battles with PT boats. In almost any other world the turret is the big ships answer to it's poor maneuverability and while the fighter maintains that speed maneuver advantage the turrets on the big boat are not to be trifled with.

ED turns that on it's head and makes the big ships get into turning dogfights to get damage values that aren't pathetic which is not my favorite aspect. Understand they don't want an "I win" ship but that could be countered in other ways.

 

[Morbad]

So understanding how the game developers want to push the game-play I get it but when applied to the big three it feels a bit.... dumb. Like you have a Coast Guard Cutter sized vehicle mounting fixed machine guns on it's bow and getting into maneuvering battles with PT boats. In almost any other world the turret is the big ships answer to it's poor maneuverability and while the fighter maintains that speed maneuver advantage the turrets on the big boat are not to be trifled with.

ED turns that on it's head and makes the big ships get into turning dogfights to get damage values that aren't pathetic which is not my favorite aspect. Understand they don't want an "I win" ship but that could be countered in other ways.

ED doesn't really have any truly big, relative to other warships in the setting, CMDR pilotable vessels. Even the Anaconda and Corvette can manuver well enough to engage small pad vessels with fixed weapons. They don't feel like big ships, they feel light giant fighters in combat.

The Cutter and T-10 are less manuverable, and the T-10 is about the only kinda-sorta-combat-vessel where turrets can make much sense as damage mainstays.

 

[KW001]

Sweet. Can leave it all as is then if the shields are gonna be down anyway before I have to worry about pp malfunctions. I rarely ended up in a pvp fight, but win or lose, Ive never been in one while piloting the vette/conda that lasted long enough for the shields to recharge.

 

[galahad2069]

With low numbers of opponents it's usually not hard to keep them off a combat vessel's PP, but with sufficient focus fire, someone is going to have a clear shot. It's one of the reasons most of my hybrid vessels (aside from my Vulture or anything using EPTs, for obvious reasons) can keep regenerating through malfunctions.

Does make sheilds down combat that much more risky and defensive than it would otherwise be.

Rail-sniping modules (I mean totally destroying them) during a ring-fight is not easy, but if all you need to do is hit the module with a RF pulse frequently enough, that's a bit easier (if you can target it because the target is out heatsinks, for instance).

Once shields are down, phasing sequence will build up to an effect threshold at a rate based on damage (or possibly size, I'm not 100% sure) then cause a malfunction to a random module on the hemisphere of the ship it last hit. It doesn't need to hit anything specific to do this.

You meant scramble spectrum, didn't you?

 

[Morbad]

Rail-sniping modules (I mean totally destroying them) during a ring-fight is not easy, but if all you need to do is hit the module with a RF pulse frequently enough, that's a bit easier (if you can target it because the target is out heatsinks, for instance).

If you are close enough for rapid fire's jitter to not be an issue, you probably don't even need to select the subsystem to reliably put shots into it it with a fixed hitscan weapon, assuming you know where it is. Auto-tracking weapons are what need the subsystem lock...and are so much more dangerous with it because all their shots can converge on it.

It's also perfectly possible to put emissive on a rapid fire pulse and never lose that lock unless someone TLBs you or breaks your sensors.

But yeah, either is easier at short to medium range than destroying them outright with rails.

You meant scramble spectrum, didn't you?

Yes. Corrected my post.

 

[photomankc]

ED doesn't really have any truly big, relative to other warships in the setting, CMDR pilotable vessels. Even the Anaconda and Corvette can manuver well enough to engage small pad vessels with fixed weapons. They don't feel like big ships, they feel light giant fighters in combat.

The Cutter and T-10 are less manuverable, and the T-10 is about the only kinda-sorta-combat-vessel where turrets can make much sense as damage mainstays.

Right. I’m not claiming they should be turret boats only. But they would fit into the concept of a corvette. A ship that is not capitol-class and too small to be a frigate but larger than typical speed attack craft. A substantial upgrade to a heavy fighter. With that it feels odd to have turrets made into such pathetically poor performance weapons for them. I’d be fine with limited turret hard points for this class ship if there were options that were actually somewhat useful.

With chaff and the nuts-kick nerf of any turret weapon they are made into nearly a complete waste. Really with chaff there shouldn’t be a nerf in my opinion between gimbals and turrets. You just shouldn’t be able to fit turrets onto every hardpoint on every ship. S - none. M - one maybe two. L - maybe up to half.

I know. Get started coding my own game =). Just my wish.

 

[KW001]

Also, were there any changes to scramble spectrum and missile damage over the last year? Bit hard to tell when scramble spectrum procs on npcs other than weapon misfires and loss of thruster control, but it feels like its happening less frequently. Suppose it might be cause I've swapped from LR to efficient. And on the odd occasion my shields drop, it seems like npc missile spam is doing more damage to externals than they have before. Used to be I wouldnt see externals below 80% until my hull was around 65, but now missile spam is knocking some externals down to 70% or lower even while my hull is still 95%+.

 

[Morbad]

Really with chaff there shouldn’t be a nerf in my opinion between gimbals and turrets. You just shouldn’t be able to fit turrets onto every hardpoint on every ship. S - none. M - one maybe two. L - maybe up to half.

If turrets didn't have any disadvantages relative to gimbals, why would anyone mount gimbals where it was possible to take turrets instead?

My corvette typically has two turrets and rarely has any gimbaled weapons. I'm using the turrets because they already provide major advantages over gimbals for my use case. Namely they have ~180 degree arcs of fire vs ~50 degree; they save a fire button (a precious commodity in this game); they have a slower rate of fire and thus deplete ammo less quickly, extending the duration they can apply effects; and in fire-at-will mode they operate independently of main sensors, able to track and engage targets multiple targets irrespective of heat signature, even while I am subsystem targeting someone else entirely.

 

[Bigmaec]

Not done processing yet (will be 4k60 when it is), but even at 360p, you should be able to see what's going on:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK7vXk82MjY




With low numbers of opponents it's usually not hard to keep them off a combat vessel's PP, but with sufficient focus fire, someone is going to have a clear shot. It's one of the reasons most of my hybrid vessels (aside from my Vulture or anything using EPTs, for obvious reasons) can keep regenerating through malfunctions.

Does make sheilds down combat that much more risky and defensive than it would otherwise be.



You can't put phasing and scramble on the same weapon and phasing pulse disruptors cannot induce malfunctions through shields.

Once shields are down, scramble will build up to an effect threshold at a rate based on damage (or possibly size, I'm not 100% sure) then cause a malfunction to a random module on the hemisphere of the ship it last hit. It doesn't need to hit anything specific to do this.

Pulse disruptors need to actually strike the module in question, so penetration depth and breach chances come into play. A pulse laser cannot penetrate to hit a corvette's power plant except from above or below the ship at a moderately steep angle, or perhaps dead on from the rear. The vette's core internals are quite well protected from the front and sides. Anyway, if they have the angle to meet the required depth then the per-shot breach chance comes into play, which is dependent on percentage of hull remaining; 100% hull means the weapon is at minimum breach chance, 0% hull means maximum, and I believe the slope between is linear.

My view by the way

 

[Maolagin]

Just ran the test. Had Bigmaec empty about seventeen thousand small MC rounds into my vette's PP.

Malfunctions start at 80% integrity and the chance of initiating them appears to be per hit, as I was held in a near continual state of malfunction until his ammo ran out.

Also, the module pane still isn't updating correctly...I had to manually update it until I started MRP repairs, which then allowed me to see the integrity actually count down.

Uploading a recording of the test now.

Wow, that's death by sandblasting.

I'm not surprised to hear that the threshold is actually 80% integrity. That makes it the same as the conditions for FSD malfunction, which very reliably happens within a couple of neutron boosts after crossing the 80% mark.

 

[Gully Foyle]

This thread has gone proper off road.

I'm going exploring in my Arx Explorer and it's an all laser boat. The three little ones are all turret beams

 

[Gully Foyle]

I can't delete my own posts? That's dumb.

Snip it

 

[Morbad]

Also, were there any changes to scramble spectrum and missile damage over the last year?

I do not believe so.

Bit hard to tell when scramble spectrum procs on npcs other than weapon misfires and loss of thruster control, but it feels like its happening less frequently. Suppose it might be cause I've swapped from LR to efficient.

Efficent pulse and burst lasers have damage fall off that starts at 500m. The scramble effect is likely tied to damage so if your engagements range is regularly beyond the 800m or so where LR damage overtakes efficient, that could explain any discrepancy. Or it could be placebo.

And on the odd occasion my shields drop, it seems like npc missile spam is doing more damage to externals than they have before. Used to be I wouldnt see externals below 80% until my hull was around 65, but now missile spam is knocking some externals down to 70% or lower even while my hull is still 95%+.

Identical loadouts?

Everything from hull rating, to explosive resistance, to MRPs will change damage to external modules.

I'm not surprised to hear that the threshold is actually 80% integrity. That makes it the same as the conditions for FSD malfunction, which very reliably happens within a couple of neutron boosts after crossing the 80% mark.

The threshold is less notable than the trigger seeming to be per-hit rather than damage based.

 

[photomankc]

If turrets didn't have any disadvantages relative to gimbals, why would anyone mount gimbals where it was possible to take turrets instead?

My corvette typically has two turrets and rarely has any gimbaled weapons. I'm using the turrets because they already provide major advantages over gimbals for my use case. Namely they have ~180 degree arcs of fire vs ~50 degree; they save a fire button (a precious commodity in this game); they have a slower rate of fire and thus deplete ammo less quickly, extending the duration they can apply effects; and in fire-at-will mode they operate independently of main sensors, able to track and engage targets multiple targets irrespective of heat signature, even while I am subsystem targeting someone else entirely.

Hmmmm, I think you missed where I said that not every ship and hardpoint can mount turrets (in my fantasy game), so gimbals would be the only auto-aiming option for most locations. Turrets are so massively nerfed in size one and two hardpoints that they are essentially a niche product. Not providing any real damage, just a delivery system for the engineer's magic spells and maybe holding off shield recharge a little longer.

Power consumption, weight, draw, tracking speed all could lead to gimbals being better in some cases as well as weapon options that make more sense as defensive turrets. This isn't crazy town stuff here, turrets (actually effective ones) phasing in at CVT sized hulls is something that's out there in other games with balancing factors applied to it.

 

[Bigmaec]

Most hilarious quote in my video at 5:50...
"Can we hurry this up"?