Star Citizen Discussion Thread v11

[Agony_Aunt]

Discussion in game chat...

Potential faithful: "I just love my Caterpillar, best $400 I have ever spent on anything..ever!"

Me: "Congratulations idiot, we're all mighty impressed. Mind you don't trip over your disposable income on the way out of the chat..."

PF: "I guess you can't afford a Caterpillar then? Jealousy will get you nowhere. I may just buy a Kraken too."

Me: "And you wanted a Caterpillar to do what? Have you actually run any cargo in it or are you just showing it off at Olisar to your boyfriend on Twitch?"

PF:" I've made a few runs...just did one that made me 40k. You simply can't do that with any other ship."

Me: "Really? I just did one mining trip in a prospector and made 50K straight profit with no outlay..."
"...Now let me see, 40k profit on 576 scu of whatever you dragged along versus my puny 32 scu of ore bringing in 50k pure profit...that doesn't make your profit margin on 576 scu seem so impressive now, does it?"

PF: "You're just jealous because you can't afford a Caterpillar...and you're being antagonistic because of it. Happens to me all the time, people just can't afford to pay what I have. I have 3 ships now...worth over $600."

Random regular who had been watching: "You do realise Mole has a Caterpillar too..don't you?...And that he has quite a few ships. He's taking the Mickey.."

Me: "Don't listen Caterpillar dude...I couldn't possibly afford a Caterpillar... even if when I did get it, I only paid $65 to upgrade from an Andromeda!"

I can't believe you were so antagonistic. Doesn't seem like you.

Personally i would have gone with something like "Pfft, look at the poor person over here. Come back when you have bought the legatus pack"

I really wonder what sort of life someone has though when they say something like the best $400 they have ever spent is on a spaceship for a computer game.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

However, I distinctly remember that S42 was a standalone single player game that could, when completed, help you advance is SC. Which is / would be nice.

No, you remember incorrectly. Ever since Crytek started sueing them over making 2 games history has been revised to state they were only ever making one game. Once Crytek is dealt with, then they will go back to saying they are making 2 games.

There are 5 lights.

 

[Mole HD]

Wrong thread?

Perhaps right thread, wrong game

 

[Mole HD]

I can't believe you were so antagonistic. Doesn't seem like you.

Personally i would have gone with something like "Pfft, look at the poor person over here. Come back when you have bought the legatus pack"

I really wonder what sort of life someone has though when they say something like the best $400 they have ever spent is on a spaceship for a computer game.

Outright boasting about how much you've spent on a pixel spaceship or two may be acceptable on Spectrum, here or reddit...game chat, not so much. It's uncommon and offensive enough that it irked me more than it perhaps should have.

There are folk backing this project who barely managed to scrape together $50 so they could buy into Star Citizen with their 'starter' game package and they don't need to be reading that elitist crap in the game chat as a welcome to the Star Citizen in game community...

They see other players with big ships, sure...they wander around some of them if they ask or are invited...others with the bigger ships will readily lend them out and help the new guys get to grips with SC in a general gameplay sense...but nobody, not even concierge backers...and he certainly wasn't one, is really crass enough to brag about their spending in the game chat then try and belittle another fellow backer by suggesting they couldn't possibly afford what they've just flung down the virtual toilet of Star Citizen. A bit of a red rag for me I'm afraid... and as much as Chris Roberts continues to promote that kind of fascist elitism as a membership rite into his exclusive Star Citizen boys own club... I won't, certainly not in game.

That idiot wouldn't even have discovered that I had more than one ship if one of the regular players I know and meet in game a lot hadn't mentioned it. The only people I meet or have met when playing SC that are aware I'm a concierge level backer are other concierge backers or folk I've known for a long time...

I have a lot more respect for the backers who have spent a comparitively greater proportion of a very limited disposable income or had to save a few weeks to buy in with a $50-$100 game package than the likes of me who have a reasonable cushion of financial security...it wasn't always the case.

 

[MTBFritz]

Discussion in game chat...

Potential faithful: "I just love my Caterpillar, best $400 I have ever spent on anything..ever!"

Me: "Congratulations idiot, we're all mighty impressed. Mind you don't trip over your disposable income on the way out of the chat..."

PF: "I guess you can't afford a Caterpillar then? Jealousy will get you nowhere. I may just buy a Kraken too."

Me: "And you wanted a Caterpillar to do what? Have you actually run any cargo in it or are you just showing it off at Olisar to your boyfriend on Twitch?"

PF:" I've made a few runs...just did one that made me 40k. You simply can't do that with any other ship."

Me: "Really? I just did one mining trip in a prospector and made 50K straight profit with no outlay..."
"...Now let me see, 40k profit on 576 scu of whatever you dragged along versus my puny 32 scu of ore bringing in 50k pure profit...that doesn't make your profit margin on 576 scu seem so impressive now, does it?"

PF: "You're just jealous because you can't afford a Caterpillar...and you're being antagonistic because of it. Happens to me all the time, people just can't afford to pay what I have. I have 3 ships now...worth over $600."

Random regular who had been watching: "You do realise Mole has a Caterpillar too..don't you?...And that he has quite a few ships. He's taking the Mickey.."

Me: "Don't listen Caterpillar dude...I couldn't possibly afford a Caterpillar... even if when I did get it, I only paid $65 to upgrade from an Andromeda!"

wow you are toxic

It doesnt matter if you were joking or being sarcastic or even that somebody else told him whats what. For him and his lil echo chamber elitist buddies you are now officially a "hater". Welcome buddy and your transformation (you might refuse to accept it) is on par with most people in this thread too. A couple more years and you ll be hard pressed to see, find or even write anything positive about SC. The way of the newbies ^^

 

[Zieman]

"Sparks fly high when steel meets steel
And no one can believe
That these two men are best friends not enemies"
- Amon Amarth, The Way of Vikings

 

[Frank]

Outright boasting about how much you've spent on a pixel spaceship or two may be acceptable on Spectrum, here or reddit...game chat, not so much. It's uncommon and offensive enough that it irked me more than it perhaps should have.

There are folk backing this project who barely managed to scrape together $50 so they could buy into Star Citizen with their 'starter' game package and they don't need to be reading that elitist crap in the game chat as a welcome to the Star Citizen in game community...

They see other players with big ships, sure...they wander around some of them if they ask or are invited...others with the bigger ships will readily lend them out and help the new guys get to grips with SC in a general gameplay sense...but nobody, not even concierge backers...and he certainly wasn't one, is really crass enough to brag about their spending in the game chat then try and belittle another fellow backer by suggesting they couldn't possibly afford what they've just flung down the virtual toilet of Star Citizen. A bit of a red rag for me I'm afraid... and as much as Chris Roberts continues to promote that kind of fascist elitism as a membership rite into his exclusive Star Citizen boys own club... I won't, certainly not in game.

That idiot wouldn't even have discovered that I had more than one ship if one of the regular players I know and meet in game a lot hadn't mentioned it. The only people I meet or have met when playing SC that are aware I'm a concierge level backer are other concierge backers or folk I've known for a long time...

I have a lot more respect for the backers who have spent a comparitively greater proportion of a very limited disposable income or had to save a few weeks to buy in with a $50-$100 game package than the likes of me who have a reasonable cushion of financial security...it wasn't always the case.

I'm not casting any first stones, especially when Jesus asked me how much I spent on Elite: Dangerous as I leaned down to pick up a rock

But I do need to express my... queasiness about Chris Roberts' sales technique. I'm not even that bothered about the people who pay the ridiculous prices for those ships just to show how massive their wallets are. My main concern is that other games companies will see those price tags and assume that this is the way forward

Of course there is an easy way to afford all the ships in Star Citizen. Just open a bank account with a single dime. By the time Star Citizen is released the compound interest on that dime will mean there's a million gazillion billion dollars in the account

 

[Agony_Aunt]

My main concern is that other games companies will see those price tags and assume that this is the way forward

Its a worrying point. Backers love to talk about big bad publishers, but CIG are paving the way to make the big bad publishers behave even worse.

Of course they will say they would never throw money at EA like this. But they don't need to know. Just wheel out an aging rockstar dev from retirement, help them set up a flashy demo and kickstarter, and let the whales throw money at it. Meanwhile, through various shell companies, the money flows into EAs coffers.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Most of us know about the troubled devleopment of Freelancer, and how, with hindsight, CR admitted to his errors and how he would learn from them. Thing is, this wasn't the first time CR was in such a situation and failed to learn from it.

Thanks to Tipps for (re)-posting this on the SA forums. Now sharing here.

Spoiler: Lots of text

 

[Tippis]

Chris Roberts, so good at computer that he thought the arc 286 (1982) → 386 (1985) → 486 (1989) → Pentium (1993) made it a “risky assumption” to guess where PC power-to-price ratios were heading. Also so good at maths that he thought that an unbroken history of more power at lower price meant that the ratio had decreased.

Chris' solid grasp of things like division and momentum and the direction of time makes me believe than when he says he took physics at UMan, what he means is that he took part in an impromptu experiment to see at what speed and distance a person could be ejected from the premises.

 

[StuartGT]

No, you remember incorrectly. Ever since Crytek started sueing them over making 2 games history has been revised to state they were only ever making one game. Once Crytek is dealt with, then they will go back to saying they are making 2 games.

There are 5 lights.

Requoting just for the awesome reference

 

[Rubbernuke]

Requoting just for the awesome reference

You don't understand game development.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Well.. I just pledged to this very fine masterpiece
First thing I did was take my ship for a spin to learn the controls and check out the system.
Wow looks, awesome. Wow space legs, wow atmospheres!
Then I got disconnect..

Log back in. I'm not in my ship, but the station hangar.
'Ok fine, it's alpha, I'll just start over again'... ...
WRONG!

Went to the terminal to retrieve ship. Status unknown, location: planet surface I got disconnected from.
'Ok whatever, this is alpha, I'll get a new one'
Reclaim new ship with insurance.. error wait 15 minutes. OK...
'Nevermind, I'll head out for a bit, will try again later'

Few hours later.. Go to reclaim ship. Done..? Heck no!
Wait now 10 minutes! (great gameplay mister Roberts)

Then. Insufficient credits.. 'OH WTH!!! I JUST STARTED, I HAVE 0 CREDITS.!!'

What wrong have I done.. it was only a disconnect

Apparently they don't want people to test this.

I know this won't go down very well in this thread as it is not slating the game but... Imo the point is...... When it worked you thought it was great right? Everything else that happened after your crash sucks....but the rest IS down to it not being finished and it is a playable alpha.

ED was the same we had the spinning sidewinder of doom, killer teleporting space stations, hell after release we had NPC's with deadly beam plasma weapons.
I hate playing buggy alpha games. There is no upside to me, you get to see behind the curtain which is no good thing, added frustration of things not working and to top it off potential burnout before the game even launches.

I backed a couple of Kickstarters and EA games but personally I don't play em untill finished (ok I admit i put a few hrs into ED)

 

[StuartGT]

PICARD: I, er, I don't know where to begin. It was
TROI: I read your post.
PICARD: What I didn't put in the post was that at the end Chris gave me a choice between a life of dreams or more delays. All I had to do was to say that I could see the best AAAAA game ever, when in fact, there were only buggy messes.
TROI: You didn't say it?
PICARD: No, no, but I was going to. I would have told him anything. Anything at all. But more than that, I believed that I could see the best AAAAA game ever.

 

[ECity]

I hate playing buggy alpha games.

It's not a buggy alpha game. It's a scam. They're running a scam.

At one point server meshing was on the roadmap for Q2 2019. As of now, there are no SSOCS or server meshing items on the roadmap.

But last August you could pay $274 to attend a dinner event with Chris Roberts where he announced a new $675 mine laying concept ship.

 

[Frank]

Chris Roberts, so good at computer that he thought the arc 286 (1982) → 386 (1985) → 486 (1989) → Pentium (1993) made it a “risky assumption” to guess where PC power-to-price ratios were heading. Also so good at maths that he thought that an unbroken history of more power at lower price meant that the ratio had decreased.

Chris' solid grasp of things like division and momentum and the direction of time makes me believe than when he says he took physics at UMan, what he means is that he took part in an impromptu experiment to see at what speed and distance a person could be ejected from the premises.

I wouldn't drag Chris Roberts over the hot coals for those two things. I'm assuming the power-to-price ratio mistake was a typo caused by him editing an unwieldy phrase and forgetting he'd changed the sense of it.

The second comment about doubting the continuation of Moore's Law I'm completely on Robert's side. It's not just that the manufacturing process gets more streamlined, it's also that the consumers must pay for these new bits of kit. I can well understand a fear that the trend might stop when you're betting a year's work that it will continue. And maybe he knew himself that just the one year was being a little optimistic.

I don't want to put those hot coals to waste though. The arrogance to assume there'd be nobody else out there that would think to use gouraud shading in a computer game. Of course they didn't give it a fancy name like RealSpace

 

[StuartGT]

It's not a buggy alpha game. It's a scam. They're running a scam.

At one point server meshing was on the roadmap for Q2 2019. As of now, there are no SSOCS or server meshing items on the roadmap.

But last August you could pay $274 to attend a dinner event with Chris Roberts where he announced a new $675 mine laying concept ship.

To add to this, for six months on the roadmap Server Meshing was originally scheduled for Q4 2018:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/7t74zc Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/7t74zc/310_to_340_progress_watch_update_20180126/

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/92r8e1 Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/92r8e1/star_citizen_roadmap_accidental_update_20180727/

 

[Tippis]

I wouldn't drag Chris Roberts over the hot coals for those two things. I'm assuming the power-to-price ratio mistake was a typo caused by him editing an unwieldy phrase and forgetting he'd changed the sense of it.

I would. If you've spent three years on a project and you're already late because of some inane attention to irrelevant details… perhaps hire a copy editor?

The second comment about doubting the continuation of Moore's Law I'm completely on Robert's side. It's not just that the manufacturing process gets more streamlined, it's also that the consumers must pay for these new bits of kit. I can well understand a fear that the trend might stop when you're betting a year's work that it will continue.

No. It was well-known that the trend would continue, barring a global calamity that ruined the entire computer industry overnight. When the project started, the 486 had recently been released and was selling like crazy, especially in the nascent gaming community. The Pentium was a known thing on the horizon that would — without any doubt — yield further power-per-price improvements.

Everything was pointing up. Everything had been pointing up for years. Every prediction was pointing up. It would have been a risky assumption to suggest, against all evidence, that it would suddenly turn completely around. Betting that it would continue was easy and safe. So the funny thing is that, as written, it's actually accurate: it would have been insanely risky to assume that the ratio would decrease, and if it did it would have been insanely stupid to make the game he was trying to make. But my guess is that Chris was trying to ignorantly paint himself as a risk-taker rather than knowingly paint himself as deliberately stupid. The problem is that Chris has never had a good grasp of the computer and gaming industry, and just assumed — like he has a habit of doing — that he's on some kind of brave and fantastical endeavour.

The only risk he was taking — and I very much doubt that Chris was in any way aware of it because of that blindness to his surroundings — was that everything would move so fast around him that his game would be passé by the time it came out. Not because of Moore's Law or because of PC purchasing behaviour, but because the PC gaming industry was so rapidly iterating that his old ideas would be… well… old. And indeed, on the point of trying to make the most realistic flight simulator and actually making use of modern hardware, he was soundly beaten before that famous CES demo was ever show — two years before the game even came out — and ultimately, SC failed to achieve anything of the kind. History repeats itself.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

You don't understand game development.

I hope everyone knows that the reference predates star trek and comes from 1984 (the book, not the year).

 

[StuartGT]

I hope everyone knows that the reference predates star trek and comes from 1984 (the book, not the year).

That was fingers, not lights