First Impressions of ED in VR

[Maolagin]

Hark! The sound of someone suggesting that VR was something other than the future of humanity...

Source: https://media.giphy.com/media/l0IpYf36OQy9O7ENW/giphy.gif

Nah, it's absolutely a case of different solutions for different needs and preferences. I, for instance, oscillate between flying mostly in VR and leaving the headset on the shelf for weeks at a time. VR is an amazing experience, but I'll happily go out in 2D if

• I want to keep EDD or other tools open on the second monitor
• I want to keep an eye on the pets or something else going on in the house
• I want to casually fly while chatting with someone online or in the room with me
• I want the sharper graphics of a (not even fancy 4K) flat display
• my eyes are already tired from a long day
• it's midsummer and my face will melt
• et cetera

 

[Arioch]

I don't remember where the thread is, but somewhere you told me how to increase the number stars in my sky. Is there a way to put this in the GraphicsConfigurationOverride.xml instead of the main file? I'm assuming any setting GraphicsConfiguration.xml file can be copied into the override file, but I'm not 100% certain regarding how this is done. How far up the DOM tree does one need to go when mirroring a specific setting?

I can’t answer your later questions, but this is the thread I think you’re after:

Some graphics settings questions for new VR guy

Define "options" - game options, Oculus app options, some other options? Turning down game brightness in Skyrim made things worse, because the backlight is still blasting at 100%. So for right now I actually turned UP brightness in Skyrim to reduce "god ray" (smeared glasses) effect, but that...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Morbad]

I don't remember where the thread is, but somewhere you told me how to increase the number stars in my sky. Is there a way to put this in the GraphicsConfigurationOverride.xml instead of the main file?

Yes.

I'm assuming any setting GraphicsConfiguration.xml file can be copied into the override file, but I'm not 100% certain regarding how this is done. How far up the DOM tree does one need to go when mirroring a specific setting?

There are a few settings that cannot be overridden, and in general, adding variables that do not exist in the main GraphicsConfiguration.xml to the override will not work. This is why my custom shadow settings cannot be placed in GraphicsConfigurationOverride.xml...almost everything else can, however.

How far up the DOM tree does one need to go when mirroring a specific setting?

All the way, essentially. Every indent and heading needs to be accounted for.

This is an example of a GraphicsConfigurationOverride.xml that would only adjust the number of stars in the sky for the high galaxy map/background preset:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
<GraphicsConfig>
    <GalaxyMap>
        <High>
            <StarInstanceCount>12000</StarInstanceCount>
        </High>
    </GalaxyMap>
</GraphicsConfig>

 

[Maolagin]

I don't remember where the thread is, but somewhere you told me how to increase the number stars in my sky. Is there a way to put this in the GraphicsConfigurationOverride.xml instead of the main file? I'm assuming any setting GraphicsConfiguration.xml file can be copied into the override file, but I'm not 100% certain regarding how this is done. How far up the DOM tree does one need to go when mirroring a specific setting?

If you don't feel like fussing with getting the XML exactly right, do note that Dr. Kaii's ED Profiler is able to manage graphics settings, including keeping multiple versions and such. If you use it, the star count and related things are under "Extra Settings".

 

[Old Duck]

Thanks everyone!

 

[Old Duck]

VR has totally changed CQC for me. I went from being rubbish to being top duck in the last two matches I tried, and it all comes down the the ability to keep my eye on my opponent and "feel" my ship move under me to track that opponent. I actually found myself enjoying CQC! It also gives me a chance to fly SLF in VR without having to equip an SLF hangar in the main game (currently the T9 is the only SLF-capable ship I own).

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

So sharing the topic with you myself.. have you given up yet?

I had the time of my life tweaking the settings in game and in steam vr to find the best quality / performance setup for my potatoe pc, and I won. Haven't had an enjoyable experience like that in a long time.

But I'm a little stunned that I don't really like actually playing in vr.. I think pure exploration, sandbox trading and passenger missions are the only things I would want to do use vr over normal monitors. At the very least:

• Anything that requires tabbing out (thargoid content e.g.) simply does not function. Its a misery. I have to take my headset off every time..
• Mining is out of the question because I get fuzzy asteroids. I managed to tweak the settings so that distant objects didn't make me think I was going blind, success there, but its not pleasant at all. Having said there is a config where they are not fuzzy at all, but out of cockpit objects are blurry and unpleasant to look at.

Maybe its just a function of me using a psvr headset (with good drivers!) but... wasn't expecting the conclusion to be "only sometimes" considering how impressive it is the first month of using it. The correct scale doesn't wow me anymore.

EDIT: To help with the srv drive around in turret mode.

 

[aXeL]

So sharing the topic with you myself.. have you given up yet?

I had the time of my life tweaking the settings in game and in steam vr to find the best quality / performance setup for my potatoe pc, and I won. Haven't had an enjoyable experience like that in a long time.

But I'm a little stunned that I don't really like actually playing in vr.. I think pure exploration, sandbox trading and passenger missions are the only things I would want to do use vr over normal monitors. At the very least:

• Anything that requires tabbing out (thargoid content e.g.) simply does not function. Its a misery. I have to take my headset off every time..
• Mining is out of the question because I get fuzzy asteroids. I managed to tweak the settings so that distant objects didn't make me think I was going blind, success there, but its not pleasant at all. Having said there is a config where they are not fuzzy at all, but out of cockpit objects are blurry and unpleasant to look at.

Maybe its just a function of me using a psvr headset (with good drivers!) but... wasn't expecting the conclusion to be "only sometimes" considering how impressive it is the first month of using it. The correct scale doesn't wow me anymore.

EDIT: To help with the srv drive around in turret mode.

The asteroid fuzz is a fault that only happens for some people. I used to have this problem but after recent SteamVR updates, it's fixed on PC, at least for me.
'Tabbing Out' I've no idea what that is, do you mean 'Alt tabbing' to other apps? I don't know about PSVR but for WMR headsets I can bring other apps, e.g. browsers into VR apps and games so I don't have to take the headset off. I agree it would be really dumb if I did have to take it off.

Ergo, I fear your problems may and I stress 'may' be down to how PSVR works rather than a 'VR' problem in general. IMO WMR headsets are the way to go, WMR is part of windows and the UI is pretty seamless now. My two pennies worth would be to flog the PSVR and get a nice Reverb. You'll pay more but you won't get all the nonsense you're putting up with.

 

[Spruxxx]

In summary, ED in VR is pretty awesome. There’s a lot I haven’t done yet, like all the “normal” stuff, because I’ve been mostly sightseeing and “renting” ships to try out in VR. I definitely think VR is my new preferred way to explore the Bubble, as it really shows off Frontier’s handmade assets in a way that goes far beyond 2D. As for doing more “mundane” things like BGS missions and deep-space exploration, I might be just as prone to do these in 2D. I’m just not sure yet. I’m still very new to VR, and I’m experimenting not only in this game but others as well. I’ll have to revisit this thread in a few months and update it with more long-term conclusions.

Congratulations glad you're enjoying it. To quote a certain film, you've taken your first step into a wider world Thanks for the write up. I got the VR bug after trying a Rift at FX17. But be warned, the dream for ever higher resolution and wide FOV begins hehe. I started with a WMR Lenovo and now eyeing up the new Pimax 8KX for native 4k per eye with near zero SDE and the wide view...

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

The asteroid fuzz is a fault that only happens for some people. I used to have this problem but after recent SteamVR updates, it's fixed on PC, at least for me.
'Tabbing Out' I've no idea what that is, do you mean 'Alt tabbing' to other apps? I don't know about PSVR but for WMR headsets I can bring other apps, e.g. browsers into VR apps and games so I don't have to take the headset off. I agree it would be really dumb if I did have to take it off.

Ergo, I fear your problems may and I stress 'may' be down to how PSVR works rather than a 'VR' problem in general. IMO WMR headsets are the way to go, WMR is part of windows and the UI is pretty seamless now. My two pennies worth would be to flog the PSVR and get a nice Reverb. You'll pay more but you won't get all the nonsense you're putting up with.

Yeah, there's definitely a permutation of supersampling + hmd image quality that does not give noticable fuzz (1.5 / 1.75 i think) but the low supersampling also made distant objects look very blurry.. to make it playable even remotely i had to do what it takes to run supersampling at 1.75 or 2x.

PSVR seems quite okay when you have it working, the only impossible problem is headset drift. I don't think its possible to cure without adding additional hardware.

I personally went back to my 30 inch monitors for the first time in a few months.. and i think i prefer monitors. Yeah sure my setup isn't proper.. but for playing the integrity of the normal experience over vr is that much greater that i strongly prefer it. There has been a huge benefit for me to see elite running at scale though. Ever since i started reading up on the lore, elite simply doesn't render itself on a normal monitor to suspend disbelief. They've made choices for gameplay over scale that make it so that the lore can't be rationlised by the data coming to your eyes. But having now seen elite in proper scale, and having a strong memory of most of the ships and other game assets, i can happily put that pitchfork down and forgive it by the memory. A problem of many years solved. So good.

 

[Old Duck]

So sharing the topic with you myself.. have you given up yet?
[...]
But I'm a little stunned that I don't really like actually playing in vr..

Oh I absolutely LOVE playing in VR. If anything, I had given up playing "pancake" and had moved on to other games like Space Engineers, until VR. VR helps make the more mundane, repetitive tasks feel immersive. You get these "I like flying spaceships" posts in just about every critical thread on the forum, and I never really understood that stance, until now. In VR, act of flying a spaceship itself is a joy (something I don't get from my small 2D monitor).

HOWEVER....

For me, flying is not sitting in supercruise for 5-15 minutes at a time... When not encumbered by a VR headset, I would get up and do some chores, crank out some pushups, check in on the forum, etc. while my ship made that long and boring trip (thank Frontier for the SCA). That's not an option in VR. Unfortunately I'm running BGS missions for a specific system right now, and many of these missions are to these stupid "binary" star systems where all the ports are at the far star over 10KLY away. Why Frontier forces us to do this is infuriating, especially in VR. I should be able to target any star in a system as the exit for hyperspace via the system map. I get needing supercruise to travel from star to planet, but not star to star! INSANITY!! Especially in VR. @Stephen Benedetti, make it happen

So yes, running missions for my Squadron can be a real pain in VR, to the point where I am tempted some days to unplug the helmet and fly unencumbered so that I can at least do something during those 5 to 10 minutes other than stare at an empty Galnet.

 

[Old Duck]

But be warned, the dream for ever higher resolution and wide FOV begins hehe. I started with a WMR Lenovo and now eyeing up the new Pimax 8KX for native 4k per eye with near zero SDE and the wide view...

Right now my PC is the limiting factor. I can crank up the settings to ultra and the HMD to 2.0, and it looks freaking AMAZING on my humble Rift S, but it is also a slideshow. There's no way I could power high-end headset with this laptop. I'm lucky I can experience VR at all! Thankfully I can go 1.25 on HMD and ultra on things like shadows and still get fluid framerates in most locations.

Someday, down the road (literally, like when I move to a bigger house where I have my own man-cave), I might get a dedicated high-end gaming PC box that at the very least can handle ultra-quality graphics on the Rift S. After than, then I'll start considering the better headsets. Until then, I'm more than happy with with I've got.

ps - the Rift S is way, way better than PSVR in my experience, except the godrays, which I don't remember on PS4 but are pretty evident (and annoying) on the Rift.

 

[AdmiralXanos]

ps - the Rift S is way, way better than PSVR in my experience, except the godrays, which I don't remember on PS4 but are pretty evident (and annoying) on the Rift.

The original rift had even more godrays, I was surprized by how the S toned it down which is funny to hear that its still worse in that regard to the PSVR.

 

[Spruxxx]

Right now my PC is the limiting factor. I can crank up the settings to ultra and the HMD to 2.0, and it looks freaking AMAZING on my humble Rift S, but it is also a slideshow. There's no way I could power high-end headset with this laptop. I'm lucky I can experience VR at all! Thankfully I can go 1.25 on HMD and ultra on things like shadows and still get fluid framerates in most locations.

Someday, down the road (literally, like when I move to a bigger house where I have my own man-cave), I might get a dedicated high-end gaming PC box that at the very least can handle ultra-quality graphics on the Rift S. After than, then I'll start considering the better headsets. Until then, I'm more than happy with with I've got.

ps - the Rift S is way, way better than PSVR in my experience, except the godrays, which I don't remember on PS4 but are pretty evident (and annoying) on the Rift.

Yeah fair enough, one day eh! And there is good news on the performance front. High native res helps to reduce the need for VR SS, which both reduces GPU overhead and looks cleaner. The RTX cards are expensive judged on raw power, but more usefully have features to reduce VR overhead further. Eg fixed foveated rendering in PiTool reduces detail outside peripheral vision. Dynamic FR hardware ie eye tracking being shown off. Nvidia just announced VRSS which claims to increase SS up to 8x in the centre view, but without a hit. I hope that would significantly reduce VR aliasing, AA doesn't play well with VR or Elite. Not sure if Elite will ever support VRSS but I'll test Boneworks some time

There have of course been discussions on VR forums about best quality vs performance with so many factors - headset and software, RTX features, SteamVR, In-game settings, GPU etc. There's a case that manually setting SteamVR SS at a fixed 0.25 instead of auto or slider value (needs to be edited in the SteamVR config), and then also setting the recommended render resolution value in that config at the correct multiple for your headset's resolution offers a much cleaner image (details elsewhere, not as complex as it may sound). Creates less artifacts and uses less GPU than to get that quality by other means eg brute force high SS.

Someone with the programming skills explained it's do with how the headset software and Steam maps pixels to pixels during calculations and how their methods differ. Do it in the correct ratio and it generates less noise, which is a lot of the mess we otherwise take for granted in VR atm. This can then give more head room for increasing in-game HMD SS setting on top if wanted. Not everyone agrees and benefit may depend on the games, but certainly for Elite I feel I'm getting much better visuals for the same performance than I used to

 

[James Spartan]

There have of course been discussions on VR forums about best quality vs performance with so many factors - headset and software, RTX features, SteamVR, In-game settings, GPU etc. There's a case that manually setting SteamVR SS at a fixed 0.25 instead of auto or slider value (needs to be edited in the SteamVR config), and then also setting the recommended render resolution value in that config at the correct multiple for your headset's resolution offers a much cleaner image (details elsewhere, not as complex as it may sound). Creates less artifacts and uses less GPU than to get that quality by other means eg brute force high SS.

Could you give more details on how to do this ?

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Oh I absolutely LOVE playing in VR. If anything, I had given up playing "pancake" and had moved on to other games like Space Engineers, until VR. VR helps make the more mundane, repetitive tasks feel immersive. You get these "I like flying spaceships" posts in just about every critical thread on the forum, and I never really understood that stance, until now. In VR, act of flying a spaceship itself is a joy (something I don't get from my small 2D monitor).

HOWEVER....

For me, flying is not sitting in supercruise for 5-15 minutes at a time... When not encumbered by a VR headset, I would get up and do some chores, crank out some pushups, check in on the forum, etc. while my ship made that long and boring trip (thank Frontier for the SCA). That's not an option in VR. Unfortunately I'm running BGS missions for a specific system right now, and many of these missions are to these stupid "binary" star systems where all the ports are at the far star over 10KLY away. Why Frontier forces us to do this is infuriating, especially in VR. I should be able to target any star in a system as the exit for hyperspace via the system map. I get needing supercruise to travel from star to planet, but not star to star! INSANITY!! Especially in VR. @Stephen Benedetti, make it happen

So yes, running missions for my Squadron can be a real pain in VR, to the point where I am tempted some days to unplug the helmet and fly unencumbered so that I can at least do something during those 5 to 10 minutes other than stare at an empty Galnet.

Fair enough. Yeah imagine if something could convince you to do that without the helmet on. That's funny as because using headlock or similar, that's what the fss crowd has been doing all along without the need to be locked in a headset. hehehehhehehehh. Spaceflight not boring.. a joy.. amazing how that can work out

Maybe with space legs there will be a good alternative to do while in super cruise. Though super cruise isn't very long if you want actually do something more than just avoid it.

 

[Old Duck]

A shameless plug perhaps, but I've greatly increased my own VR experience using the following!

Amazingly Realistic Immersion Mod

UPDATE - The latest version of this mod is available in this post from this very long thread. This is the last update I'll be making before Odyssey releases. For those who want more customizations and fine-tuning of their HUD, I recommend checking out EDHM, which is more user friendly than mine...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Spruxxx]

Could you give more details on how to do this ?

Sure, so I wrote a TLDR summary post here. I'm certainly not the expert here so I wanted to write up a steplist of what I did for others to test and / or modify for their own use.

Note before you start that the correct values are going to depend on your headset and your headset software's SS options before you get to SteamVR, or Elite's in-game settings (each option is an interacting step in the chain towards the final image you see in your headset), not to mention GPU capability. By default, the higher you set your headset options, Steam Auto will reduce quality to balance the performance on your system. I'm maxing out the headset's SS option and then manually overriding Steam to a fixed 0.25 value. The way PiTool does pixel to pixel mapping may differ from the HTC or Oculus implementation etc. Finally, a small boost to the game's HMD value using 1.25 on top via EDProfiler because my system can handle it.

You'll probably need a bit of time to read from the beginning to get better context!

Here's my steplist (note syntax error in your Steam personal config will cause it to reset to default and you won't see any benefits, and don't edit the standard config, that gets blanked with every Steam update but also clearly tells you not to edit it):

https://community.openmr.ai/t/best-quality-settings-for-steamvr-ive-found/22614/48

Further up, here's an example of Steam telling you your headset's resolution based on your headset SS setting (x2 in PiTool in my case, if I set to x1 then Steam would show a different answer) - note this is 100% NOT your headset's physical resolution so don't use that, it will be wrong. And going from x1 to x2 is, I think, not doubling pixel demand but quadrupling it due to the mapping method. Which is why Steam is 'quartered' to match.

https://community.openmr.ai/t/best-quality-settings-for-steamvr-ive-found/22614/43

The calculation of the recommended resolution depends on a multiple of the above (in my 5k+ case with a res of 8532x5264, the lowest multiple is 4266. I can get away with 8532 on Normal 150 FOV. On Large 170 to overcome any quality loss with that width, I tried 17,064 which looks gorgeous on the text, but even a 2080 Ti struggles to maintain 30fps in stations on that setting. And that's factoring in the other performance settings utilised (I'm aiming for a solid 45FPS because I effectively get 90 via the Pimax frame 'doubling' option, plus PiTool can use Fixed Foveated Rendering on RTX cards which reduces the quality outside of your field of view).

On wide FOV headset like Pimax (and a little bit on Index but hidden away), the canted lenses need additional transformations to work correctly with Elite called Parallel Projections, and that's a GPU performance hit. So much of the above is to max performance while getting the best possible image quality. The idea is to not to get the most amazing image ever possible, that can be done with silly SS settings, but to get best cleanest image at the best possible usable FPS.

Appreciate this is a fair bit to take in, I'm still learning a lot myself. I hope it's a helpful starter location to understand VR optimisation with all the current options available to us. Any questions let me know, I'll do my best to explain. There are people on here who have far more expertise than me on this!

I am now ultimately waiting on the 8KX with ultra high native res to provide a clean image without the GPU overhead of high SS values. But I'm very happy with what I'm running on the 5k+ now, it's a better balance than anything I had before.

 

[Spruxxx]

Quoting Russian dev from an earlier post. Substitute PiTool for your own headset software (note he has an 8k and I have a 5k+ so slightly different values, I modified my value accordingly):


HOW ITS WORK:

When u set PitoolSS.
-Pitool say to driver - hey, i want picture in THIS resolution (8864 in my case with SS 2.0)
-Driver says - ok then. hey, steamvr, give me picture in resolution 8864!
-Steamvr says - Ohh… game send me much lower resolutions… but ok. Wait a sec. I upscale it for you.
-Driver says. - ok, im waiting.
-SteamVr says to game - I have settings 25%, which is mean x4 less pixels, which is mean x2 lower resolution. So i need 4432 resolution from you!
-Game says - ok…ok… I render… render… ren… der… Look. Its here.
-Steamvr says - nice. I’ll take it. Now i need scale it for pitool driver. (because he want 8864 resollution from me!)
-Driver says - hey, steamvr. Are u here? Still waiting. Ah… its here. Thx a lot for picture. I’ll correct it, and scale for HMD.

What this mean:
Pitool need fixed resolution (depend of Pitool SS, FOV, and PP setting). No matter what you doing with SteamVR. Pitool driver ALWAYS accept only his own resolution.
if u set SteamVR less than 100% - its will be upscaled for pitool driver.
if u set SteamVR more than 100% - it will be downscaled for driver.
if u set SteamVR equal 100% - its will be not scaled. And game will render in same resolution as pitool want.

 

[Old Duck]

I think VR is ruining my 2D games, LOL, at least ones that are similar to my VR games. I used to love playing Space Engineers, and I still like the game as a concept, but I just can't get back into playing it. I try, but then I just log out, put on my HMD, and fire up Elite Dangerous.

Or Skyrim VR.

Or Subnautica VR.

Now a game like Stellarus, which is sitting on my hard drive begging for me to learn, is likely a much better candidate for 2D. I just haven't been in the mood for that type of game lately. I have been in the mood for a game like Space Engineers, but switching to VR is like switching from Atari 2600 to PS4 - it's mighty hard to go back!