[Video] January update, was this what we ASKED?! & Fleet carrier delay...

[Speedcuffs]

It's certainly not what I asked for!
I asked for a T-9 Raider pack, body kit, plasma Cutters and more salvage work.
But I'm too busy for any of that, so it can wait.

 

[RevCaoticFox]

Why's that?

terrific question

 

[pegasus912]

This thread has gone completely off the rails. But on the subject of the OP, I don't think this is what was asked for. I think it is fair to expect a decent sized company like Frontier to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time (put out feature updates and bug fixes!). I am happy we're getting bug fixes but I'm disappointed in the Fleet Carrier delay, which almost certainly was going to happen with or without the open letter. Six months (give or take) is a long time to delay a single feature in a game. Wouldn't it be nice if we had more info to hold us over? Say what you will about Star Citizen, but at least it feels like the people working on the game are passionate about it and that passion carries over to the players/backers.

 

[Viajero]

Ignoring the fact that I already adressed this, how is that relevant to the quote?

Very, because it means time in game is not silly in the discussion about if a game is or not bug broken.

I wasn't adressing the OP, I really don't know where you got that idea.

OP, as in the Original Proposition you have been discussing with me.

That some bugs are more visible than others and that some only affect a feature in particular is a fact.

That is another strawman of yours That was never questioned in my OP. Quite the contrary.

How is that relevant?

It is relevant in poiting out that you are incorrect (again) when you said that was in direct oposition to my claim. That was precisely my claim.

If you happen to not play the part affected by the bug, it's not a big deal, if you do, it's a big deal.

We are making progress there. We seem to at least agree that some of the issues mentioned are not as dramatic or game breaking for everyone else, as some here perceive them to be. You are still wrong though in claiming that all bugs are "a big deal", many bugs are obviously not a big deal be it because they either have a very simple workaround or because the impact to gameplay is insignificant, etc. You can find many testimonies to that effect in this same thread by other patrons.

This kind of wrong swiping generalizations where a patron believes his perception of the game can be extended to the totality of the population and the game, like yours here or the one my OP responded to, are precisely at the heart of the matter. Pointing out many players seem to be able to play hundreds or thousands of hours without major issues is a very simple way to show those generalizations about the game being bug broken do not make much sense.

 

[Taimaru]

I think it is fair to expect a decent sized company like Frontier to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time (put out feature updates and bug fixes!).

The reason why Frontier are currently unable to put out feature updates and bug fixes at the same time is because the majority of the Elite: Dangerous team are busily working on the next big (paid-for) feature update due to come out at the end of the year.

This has been mentioned lots of times so people shouldn't forget that fact.

Frontier could have decided to have the remaining members of the team (a very small group in comparison) release Fleet Carriers as well as bug fixes but the Fleet Carriers wouldn't have been as polished and complete as we would have all liked leading to more complaints (and silly videos from the OP).

I wish I could find the tweet now (stupidly I didn't bookmark it) but there was a tweet from one of the developers (shortly after Frontier announced the delay to Fleet Carriers) that said, without giving any information away, being able to concentrate on fixing bugs allowed them time to also work on another feature for Fleet Carriers they otherwise wouldn't have been able to do (that was a paraphrase but it gives the gist of the tweet).

So, whilst the delay of Fleet Carriers can be frustrating to some, we will end up getting a better version of Fleet Carriers than if it had come out last December.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Very, because it means time in game is not silly in the discussion about if a game is or not bug broken.

That's a circular argument.

OP, as in the Original Proposition you have been discussing with me.

It's good practice to clarify beforehand an acronym if it's already used for something else.

That is another strawman of yours That was never questioned in my OP. Quite the contrary.

In which case you've contradicted yourself.

It is relevant in poiting out that you are incorrect (again) when you said that was in direct oposition to my claim. That was precisely my claim.

That's essentially stating it's relevant without actual justification, also, read above.

We are making progress there. We seem to at least agree that some of the issues mentioned are not as dramatic or game breaking for everyone else, as some here perceive them to be.

That is to be decided on a case to case basis.

You are still wrong though in claiming that all bugs are "a big deal", many bugs are obviously not a big deal be it because they either have a very simple workaround or because the impact to gameplay is insignificant, etc. You can find many testimonies to that effect in this same thread by other patrons.

I certainly didn't state all bugs were a big deal, I was generalizing for the sake of not typing too much.

This kind of wrong swiping generalizations where a patron believes his perception of the game can be extended to the totality of the population and the game, like yours here or the one my OP responded to, are precisely at the heart of the matter. Pointing out many players seem to be able to play hundreds or thousands of hours without major issues is a very simple way to show those generalizations about the game being bug broken do not make much sense.

What? I'm not talking on behalf of anybody here nor am I imposing my opinion, incidentally, I'm not a patron and to be honest the only players which may fit the defiinition are LEPer's and even then I have my doubts given they made a direct purchase and do not continually support financially.

 

[Bashy81]

No bugs to see here, move along..

So why are Fdev doing a bugfix season following a bugfix season? Peer-pressure? Brainwashing?

Seems this update is a stepping stone to FCs anyway.. Oodles of network compression, to handle the 'FCs come with significant server overhead so not everyone can have one' issue. And dynamically nerfed markets so high value items stored on say, FCs cant be held back until the best price then all dumped at once. (Which Fdev have said is undesirable several times)
This would at least give some purpose for FCs for solo players, that doesnt already have a better solution ingame. Sure thats speculative but no more so than claiming that Open Letter had one specific effect on fdev's roadmap or another.

So dont blame Yamiks or the Open Letter for FC delays, you can as easily blame the Solo Needs Matter brigade.

Complaining about delays having previously begged for reprioritising devtime away from new releases... yeah you can blame Yamiks for that. Hypocrisy isnt just a tactic of forumites to gain attention, its one of the main clickbait tactics generally.

 

[Stigbob]

This thread has gone completely off the rails. But on the subject of the OP, I don't think this is what was asked for. I think it is fair to expect a decent sized company like Frontier to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time (put out feature updates and bug fixes!). I am happy we're getting bug fixes but I'm disappointed in the Fleet Carrier delay, which almost certainly was going to happen with or without the open letter. Six months (give or take) is a long time to delay a single feature in a game. Wouldn't it be nice if we had more info to hold us over? Say what you will about Star Citizen, but at least it feels like the people working on the game are passionate about it and that passion carries over to the players/backers.

Passions all well and good but you need to keep it under control with realistic expectations.

Imagine you watched the SC trailer in the early 2010's and thought "another spaceship game to go with ED it'll be fixed mission based with cheesy cutscenes but I've got ED for open galaxy so bonus YAH !" then bobbed across to the CIG store page all happy, looked at the prices, rubbed your eyes and looked again, checked you hadn't been redirected to a fake site, checked they meant real and not in-game money, double it checked it elsewhere in case the store had broken then laughed and noped out completely on the basis that video games cost £50.

That was back before they missed their 2014 release date.

Do you think the subsequent years of increasing delays, reduced game world size, legally blocked refunds, scope creep, legal action by the engine designers and comedy price inflation have altered my view at all ?. Or do you think I'm glad I was cautious and didn't believe all the BDSSE dreamweaving gubbins in the first place.

I also noped out on ED's LEP since the prevailing forum DLC frequency theory at the time was wildly different to what FDEV actually said, I'll happily buy each DLC as it gets released for a game I like as much as ED and not regret it at all if that costs me a bit more in the longrun. It's still pennies to the hour. My choice and I'll happily own the outcome of it.

If I'm eventually wrong about SC I can still buy in (strictly at a basic level) at any point I choose if it ever happens isn't dreadful and they somehow address the pay2win corner they've painted themselves into. No possibility of disappointment, getting scammed or any regret.



EDIT : I'm also not convinced by the "leak" we are getting space-feet next or at all TBH. I'm fine with that either way since its not what I bought the space-ship game for in the first place.

 

[Sunyavadin]

It's certainly not what I asked for!
I asked for a T-9 Raider pack, body kit, plasma Cutters and more salvage work.
But I'm too busy for any of that, so it can wait.

One thing I've learned as a T9 player in all these years, it's not to hold your breath for T9 kits.

 

[Speedcuffs]

One thing I've learned as a T9 player in all these years, it's not to hold your breath for T9 kits.

And we don't mention the 'other' ship.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

I wonder what we will be saying in July?

there's no wondering what ill be saying, im sure its obvious by now, if not ill have a word with my PR manager.

 

[babelfisch]

No bugs to see here, move along..

So why are Fdev doing a bugfix season following a bugfix season? Peer-pressure? Brainwashing?

Seems this update is a stepping stone to FCs anyway.. Oodles of network compression, to handle the 'FCs come with significant server overhead so not everyone can have one' issue. And dynamically nerfed markets so high value items stored on say, FCs cant be held back until the best price then all dumped at once. (Which Fdev have said is undesirable several times)
This would at least give some purpose for FCs for solo players, that doesnt already have a better solution ingame. Sure thats speculative but no more so than claiming that Open Letter had one specific effect on fdev's roadmap or another.

So dont blame Yamiks or the Open Letter for FC delays, you can as easily blame the Solo Needs Matter brigade.

Complaining about delays having previously begged for reprioritising devtime away from new releases... yeah you can blame Yamiks for that. Hypocrisy isnt just a tactic of forumites to gain attention, its one of the main clickbait tactics generally.

Personally I don't blame anyone for the delay. In fact I am quite grateful for it because it means the feature will be more polished. It's certainly better to delay things rather than rushing them out in a broken state like it happened with so many other features in ED.
So whoever is responsible for the delay, thanks a lot!

 

[babelfisch]

there's no wondering what ill be saying, im sure its obvious by now, if not ill have a word with my PR manager.

Thanks FDEV for small seismic charges and cockpit cats?

 

[babelfisch]

This thread has gone completely off the rails.

Which rails, it's just a link to a video nobody watched.

 

[myothershipisacobraiv]

Passions all well and good but you need to keep it under control with realistic expectations.

Imagine you watched the SC trailer in the early 2010's and thought "another spaceship game to go with ED it'll be fixed mission based with cheesy cutscenes but I've got ED for open galaxy so bonus YAH !" then bobbed across to the CIG store page all happy, looked at the prices, rubbed your eyes and looked again, checked you hadn't been redirected to a fake site, checked they meant real and not in-game money, double it checked it elsewhere in case the store had broken then laughed and noped out completely on the basis that video games cost £50.

That was back before they missed their 2014 release date.

Do you think the subsequent years of increasing delays, reduced game world size, legally blocked refunds, scope creep, legal action by the engine designers and comedy price inflation have altered my view at all ?. Or do you think I'm glad I was cautious and didn't believe all the BDSSE dreamweaving gubbins in the first place.

I also noped out on ED's LEP since the prevailing forum DLC frequency theory at the time was wildly different to what FDEV actually said, I'll happily buy each DLC as it gets released for a game I like as much as ED and not regret it at all if that costs me a bit more in the longrun. It's still pennies to the hour. My choice and I'll happily own the outcome of it.

If I'm eventually wrong about SC I can still buy in (strictly at a basic level) at any point I choose if it ever happens isn't dreadful and they somehow address the pay2win corner they've painted themselves into. No possibility of disappointment, getting scammed or any regret.



EDIT : I'm also not convinced by the "leak" we are getting space-feet next or at all TBH. I'm fine with that either way since its not what I bought the space-ship game for in the first place.

And that's the thing about SC. They've taken so much money from people, not just for in-game ships (which alone is bad enough) but also in-game "services" of some kind, that there's no way the final game can come out and not just be one giant nightmare of monetization or manipulative structure for joining players because otherwise they're spitting on everything they've done with players (backers?) up to now.

At this point it's like an EA tentpole. It doesn't matter what it is, it's gonna suck because they're gonna milk it for every single $, and then try for a hundred more.

Now, granted, they could just spit on everything they've done with players up to now. Game companies do that all the time. But after so much of it with SC up to this point, the level of spitting on it they would be doing would just be unheard of.

So even if SC, somehow, magically completes, it's gonna suck balls for players jumping on at release time unless they completely rip off everybody that they've successfully hooked up to now.

 

[Ezren]

Which rails, it's just a link to a video nobody watched.

But we were able to get all the information we really needed from the title and the time of the release: the January update was just barely live when the video criticizing it appeared, so it clearly the actual update wasn't really the subject, because he couldn't have possibly played it before coming to the conclusions in the video.

On top of that, there was a thread by the same guy pushing the "Open Letter" which pretty much asked for exactly what we got. It's pretty clear that outrage is the conclusion, and the path there is just whatever one can think of in the moment. When you sign a letter wanting things, and get those things, you can't just turn around and be mad about getting those things.

And yet, here we are.

 

[Viajero]

That's a circular argument.

Not really, it simply shows that you have only addressed your own strawmen so far.

In which case you've contradicted yourself.

My point has been very consistent all throughout this conversation. Your strawmen have been multiple and varied though.

That's essentially stating it's relevant without actual justification, also, read above.

The justification is part of my OP indeed, which you seem to have ignored in favor of strawmen such as “value”, “game critics or “averages”…

That is to be decided on a case to case basis.

After all I think we are much closer in our arguments than you lead to believe because that is precisely along the lines of my OP argument against generalizations portrayed as universal fact.

And even on a case by case basis you will be hard pressed to find consensus about many bugs impacts or criticalities. Especially when many players claim to have played hundreds or thousands of hours without major issues. Hardly a sign for an alleged bug broken game.

I certainly didn't state all bugs were a big deal, I was generalizing for the sake of not typing too much.

It´s good practice to clarify generalizations so to avoid the impression you state opinion as universal fact, especially when the point of my OP was precisely that those sweeping generalizations in this case tend to lead to confusion, do not make much sense and are easily disproven.

What? I'm not talking on behalf of anybody here nor am I imposing my opinion...

See above.

I'm not a patron and to be honest the only players which may fit the defiinition are LEPer's...

I suspect you are perhaps getting a bit lost in translation. We are all indeed patrons of this forum.

patron

[ pey-truh n ]

noun
a person who is a customer, client, or paying guest, especially a regular one, of a store, hotel, or the like.

Or as in this case, patrons of a forum.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Not really, it simply shows that you have only addressed your own strawmen so far (congrats!)
....
I suspect you are perhaps getting a bit lost in translation. We are all indeed patrons of this forum.
Or as in this case, patrons of a forum.

Good discussion, but it will never end as you cannot possibly be correct in your logically deduced conclusions. This is a path I too have walked
For some odd reason an unpleasant character from a children's story keeps coming to mind

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Which rails, it's just a link to a video nobody watched.

OK, how did you know? Who told me out?!

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Not really, it simply shows that you have only addressed your own strawmen so far (congrats!)

Statting things doesn't make them true which is something you've been indulging in.

I actually have not. My point has been very consistent all throughout this conversation. Your strawmen have been multiple and varied though.

You've stated this:

I assure you that if I don’t like a game or if it is broken I don’t play it thousands of hours.

Which contradicts the idea that you can play a buggy game.

The justification is part of my OP indeed, which you seem to have ignored in favor of strawmen such as “value”, “game critics or “averages”…

Stating things you haven't stated is not a strawman, it's simply part of the argumentation, also, read above.

After all I think we are much closer in our arguments than you lead to believe because that is precisely along the lines of my OP argument against generalizations.

We would if you actually were consistent with your statements.

And even on a case by case basis you will be hard pressed to find consensus about many bugs impacts or criticalities. Especially when many players claim to have played hundreds or thousands of hours without major issues. Hardly a sign for an alleged bug broken game.

A bug broken game is also suceptible to a lack of consensus for different reasons, hence, it's not a sign for either case.

It´s good practice to clarify generalizations so to avoid the impression you state opinion as universal fact, especially when the point of my OP was precisely that those sweeping generalizations in this case tend to not make much sense and are easily disproven.

A generalization isn't masking an opinion as fact...

Suspect you are perhaps getting a bit lost in translation. We are all indeed patrons of this forum [...]

Your suspect is incorrect, the use of patron was simply vague:

a person who supports with money, gifts, efforts, or endorsement an artist, writer, museum, cause, charity, institution, special event, or the like.