I think you're confusing TRAVEL with EXPLORATION

[Deleted member 38366]

IMHO Jumprange or Exploration style isn't a paramount issue by itself

Seeing for 99.99% the exact same procedural Systems, System Constellations, Body types, Star types 45000LY out, just as they are right in the bubble is IMHO where Exploration still falls short. "More of the same", feel free to honk yourself 10000 more of them. And then some.

The Codex entries (at least the unbugged ones) were a nice addition - but even those only added so much and from the looks of it were consumed within a few months or so for the most part.
The by far most interesting part? Rumors.... "Future Content" sadly

If we didn't have this issue, I think the often perceived difference and relevance of JumpRange between Traveling (moving through the Galaxy) and Exploring (spending "Time on Target" for whatever personal purpose) would soften out or even vanish.

For the time being though, IMHO it matters little if Carriers could go 500LY or 1000LY. The act of making them do so (Carrier Fuel requirement) and their Utility on Location is likely going to define their function.
If their implementation means that super-remote Systems then go within reach, so be it. An valid incentive for Record-chasers to head out into the Black.

PS.
When I head out, I always have a goal. That goal will define whether I seek specific Galactic Sectors, SubSectors within them or even target specific Systems/System types within.

I found my personal "max. endurance" for Exploration sits at around 4 weeks.
Can't stand it any longer and seeing "more of the same" passing by to no end.
Usually at that point I question the purpose of it all and think how exciting it would be to hop into a Viper and buzz a NAV Beacon or RES.
Or go mining Bauxite in a random Rocky Belt just for kicks.
For that reason, getting quickly into distant places within a few Days in a 50-70LY capable Ship - just to have more UTC (Useful Time of Consciousness) as "Time on Target" before I get bored - is quite important for me personally.
So if I'm offered a JumpRange boost of any sort, I'll happily take that any day.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Well most likely real Galaxy is full of those red dwarves with some forlorn icy balls orbiting them. So every jump or not even 1 jump in hundred is not going to produce you some unfound gem.

 

[Sysmon]

We are still exploring this planet, so technically we could be stuck in a single solar system and have plenty to do, exploration-wise. Although we at least should have the minimum stars available from the previous Frontier-series games. There is just not enough detail in the exploration mechanics to make that work, however. So we are stuck for now with the drive-by photography type exploration that's the dominant game mechanic at this time.

As more features get added, exploration may slow down. We already have the "First Mapped By" tag, but we could also get "Surveyed By" and "Sampled By" tags down the road. The former could be for mapping in detail an entire planet surface from low orbit (requiring a hitherto non-existing tool). The latter could be from sampling either surface or atmosphere.

S

 

[IndigoWyrd]

im a sailor here, many ocean crossings and northern latitudes too, ED isn't sailing though, its far from it

ED is a loading screen where i press Y over and over again, i would compare it to locking yourself into a dark room for 56 days with zero stimulus and then being released and allowed to go do what you set out to achieve, a sailing journey it certainly is not, every-time i arrive somewhere no matter how awful the weather was i cant wait to go out sailing again.

Ew, you bound your FSD to "Y"? Yuk. But you're kind of right - ED isn't sailing, but what you're describing is just traveling. I've been a passenger on some long trips - including New Zealand to Antarctica. Not fun trips at all, and only so much to look at as a passenger. Would have been more interesting to be at the helm, at least there'd have been something to do, except drink vodka the boiler mate made in the engine room.

 

[muroko]

I may be wrong but I have that nagging feeling that many CMDRs confuse travel distance with exploration and vice versa. Examples are plenty, nearest is plea to make fleet carriers jump further. Among replies we can see that increasing jump range would kill exploration, kick in the sack for those who endured old ways exploration and when exploring I want "to feel space is big". Valid opinions, all of them.

But for me travel time =/= exploration.

Long travel time is unnecessary waste of time. For what is exploration? Visiting as many star systems as possible between start and target points? If so why ALL explorer builds have the biggest A-rated FSD with G5 extended range engineering and biggest Guardian booster? You should have stock E-rate for its short jump gives you more sumps per 100 LYs.

So maybe exploration is reaching certain, remote place and sneak out there? Then you want to have the fastest ship available to make whole travel as short as possible. To get as soon as you get so you can focus on main activity instead of spending days actually going there.

Or maybe exploration is... well, what is YOUR definition of exploration. I know space is big and experiencing it's vastness is part of exploration. But it get boring very, very quickly. I've been to the center of the Galaxy, saw Sagittarius' black hole (honestly - not that impressed as I expected to be, hearing how awesome experience it is ti see it). Been to Colonia. Visited few space clouud outside the Bubble. made my share of thousands of LYs. Truly, 5k beyond the Bubble border it starts to get boring, dull and repetitive I want to quit it already. Which I did severeal times.

I like exploration, actually seeing things. But I don't have that much resilience to spend weeks doing nothing but jumping. It's far too imbalanced - effort put to get places vs enjoyment from actually seeing that place. One may say exploration isn't for me if I'm not willing to put effort toward it. Fair enough.

But for me exploration is to SEE places, not to spend ages getting there. For that I require far, and I mean FAR jumping ship. Many of you say having such a ship will kill exploration.

In what way exactly?

• getting to Beagle Point within one play session instead of weeks (regular play) or days (more dedicated)?
• reaching the farthest star at (direction) which currently is unavailable, also beating your record (which is awesome on its own)?
• seing actually more people exploring? According to last census we have explored what... 0.042 or was it 0.0042%?

My final thought - increasing jump range, even by order of magnitude wouldn't change much.
I can truly explore nearby systems while being 65k LYs away in my 500 LYs jump capable ship while you can't get to me in your 50 LYs jump ship in reasonable time.

I think it's just a matter of personal taste and the galaxy is big enough for all to find something, no matter the capabilities of the ship.

 

[Florenus]

The really interesting thing about this, is that even if the game had an infinite jump range, it wouldn't decrease the time it will take to fully explore the galaxy. The galaxy simply has too many start systems, therefore it would still take hundreds of years.

But why do you assume people are interested in fully exploring the Galaxy? What a strange notion.
I'm not. I don't care. If they would only remove those cursed tags I would be happy exploring systems already visited by countless players.

But reaching Beagle Point or other place similarily remote, knowing that I'm in a place unreachable to most people because of the effort it takes to get there - this is fascinating. I want this game to be and remain that big.

Besides, the systems are generated with basically the same rules wherever you go, so by removing the jump limit, you would just remove the only thing that makes travelling around galaxy meaningfull. If you just want to explore as many systems as possible, then all you need is a button that generates another system.

 

[Good Whiskey]

by removing the jump limit, you would just remove the only thing that makes travelling around galaxy meaningful. If you just want to explore as many systems as possible, then all you need is a button that generates another system.

But for a lot of people, the travelling isn't what's meaningful. It's what they do once they get to the destination.

You could say that, well, you're just flying around and scanning and mapping and landing and taking screenshots once you arrive, but for a lot of explorers, that's the meat of the endevour. It's not the jumping and scooping and repairing and jumping. It's being there and experiencing the destination and all the destinations around it.

I could argue that we can all already get wherever we want if we have the time to spare, and that the equation time = challenge is not universally shared, particularly if you don't view exploration as a challenge as much as a pursuit. But that argument doesn't hold weight with anyone who believes that the journey is a challenge.

 

[Sysmon]

But why do you assume people are interested in fully exploring the Galaxy? What a strange notion.
I'm not. I don't care. If they would only remove those cursed tags I would be happy exploring systems already visited by countless players.

What difference does the tags make then?

S

 

[JetsonRING]

I for one agree, that Exploration and travel are not equal. Many CMDRs seem to think that in order to explore, their ships must be stripped to the bones and have "maximum" jump-ranges. I always say, that when players fit their ships for maximum jump-range they are probably jumping right past systems that should be, systems that want to be explored.
Whenever I see a thread asking about the best way to maximize a ship's jumps range "for exploration" so they can go to Sag-A or Salome's Reach I always ask whether the player just wants to get to their destinations as quickly as possible (travel) or if they intend to spend time exploring the systems in between.

 

[JetsonRING]

I for one agree, that Exploration and travel are not equal. Many CMDRs seem to think that in order to explore, their ships must be stripped to the bones and have "maximum" jump-ranges. I always say, that when players fit their ships for maximum jump-range they are probably jumping right past systems that should be, systems that want to be explored.
Whenever I see a thread asking about the best way to maximize a ship's jumps range "for exploration" so they can go to Sag-A or Salome's Reach I always ask whether the player just wants to get to their destinations as quickly as possible (travel) or if they intend to spend time exploring the systems in between.
For me it is sort of like, even if I have a final destination in mind, do I prepare to drive the whole way on the Interstate highways and get to my destination as quickly as possible or, do I slow down, get off the super-highways and take the secondary roads, enjoy the scenery and "rediscover" old tourist destinations that very few people have visited since the Interstates were built. o7

 

[Wrecked]

Or keep it as it is, which will prolly happen.

You're probably right, but hopefully they make travel more meaningful.

How can you even have a destination without a journey?

I guess... if you call getting molested by airport security and then spending hours trapped in an aluminium tube breathing people's recycled fart air a journey...
I personally would rather skip all that and hit the beach

 

[Mrat13]

It's a balancing act. Have enough jump range to reach certain places, but no so much you avoid everything else along the way. It's why I think explorers should ignore using neutron stars, because you might miss something.

Oh, and about FC. The range isn't the problem, it's that you can jump to unexplored systems. Unexplored systems should be for exploration ships only.

 

[Sysmon]

I for one agree, that Exploration and travel are not equal. Many CMDRs seem to think that in order to explore, their ships must be stripped to the bones and have "maximum" jump-ranges. I always say, that when players fit their ships for maximum jump-range they are probably jumping right past systems that should be, systems that want to be explored.
Whenever I see a thread asking about the best way to maximize a ship's jumps range "for exploration" so they can go to Sag-A or Salome's Reach I always ask whether the player just wants to get to their destinations as quickly as possible (travel) or if they intend to spend time exploring the systems in between.

When it comes down to it, travel IS part of exploration. It's great to be able to get to destinations fast. But it is also great to not be stuck focussing on maximum jump range for the entire trip. Better filtering options for route planning (or even just galaxy map perusing) could help here. I'd like to be able to filter giant stars out, for example, and not just be happy to find them when I pass through.

S

 

[Old Duck]

These days I do the majority of my exploration around 500 LY from Sol, in a combat-ready Python that has a relatively humble jump range. I'm still finding undiscovered systems and fascinating vistas. I have zero interest in Beagle Point, and the one time I did travel to Colonia, the Borg cube stars and beige galactic core ruined it for me. Someday I would like to experience Colonia on PC, but I figure some nice chap will allow me to telepresence with them someday for that experience. I'm not a terrible SLF pilot

 

[CMDR Carbo]

But for a lot of people, the travelling isn't what's meaningful. It's what they do once they get to the destination.

You could say that, well, you're just flying around and scanning and mapping and landing and taking screenshots once you arrive, but for a lot of explorers, that's the meat of the endevour. It's not the jumping and scooping and repairing and jumping. It's being there and experiencing the destination and all the destinations around it.

I could argue that we can all already get wherever we want if we have the time to spare, and that the equation time = challenge is not universally shared, particularly if you don't view exploration as a challenge as much as a pursuit. But that argument doesn't hold weight with anyone who believes that the journey is a challenge.

The problem is, the challenge and risk of exploration is already almost inexistent, the risk of getting stuck with current jump ranges very low. Further increasing the jump range is only making this easier. Traversing the abyss was probably one of the more interesting parts of going to Beagle Point. But with 100ly jump ranges or a button press and you're there, that excitement is gone.
IMO, fleet carrieres shouldn't further trivialize exploration. FDEV has the means to bring more gameplay to exploration with fleet carriers.

I would make it that fleet carriers can't jump to an unexplored system. I would implement fleet carrier travel like this:

• We fly with a normal ship to the destination (within a range of let's say 500ly to 1000ly)
• It's our responsibility to make sure the materials to refuel the FC is available in the target system or close by.
• We place a beacon somewhere in the system
• The FC requires that beacon as destination for the jump and jumps to the closest legitimate entry position to the beacon

I know others have suggested similar approaches.
Just clicking somewhere in the galaxy map to make our carriers jump there would make fleet carriers for me really boring.
But that's just my opinions.

 

[Rat Catcher]

These days I do the majority of my exploration around 500 LY from Sol, in a combat-ready Python that has a relatively humble jump range. I'm still finding undiscovered systems and fascinating vistas. I have zero interest in Beagle Point, and the one time I did travel to Colonia, the Borg cube stars and beige galactic core ruined it for me. Someday I would like to experience Colonia on PC, but I figure some nice chap will allow me to telepresence with them someday for that experience. I'm not a terrible SLF pilot

Send me a friend request and you can come out with me on a little trip almost to Glactic Centre - I'll stick a SLF onto the Krait II

 

[Mrat13]

These days I do the majority of my exploration around 500 LY from Sol, in a combat-ready Python that has a relatively humble jump range. I'm still finding undiscovered systems and fascinating vistas. I have zero interest in Beagle Point, and the one time I did travel to Colonia, the Borg cube stars and beige galactic core ruined it for me. Someday I would like to experience Colonia on PC, but I figure some nice chap will allow me to telepresence with them someday for that experience. I'm not a terrible SLF pilot

You could live in Colonia. It's big enough. I'd suggest building a seperate Colonia fleet though, rather than pay for transfers.

 

[Old Duck]

You could live in Colonia. It's big enough. I'd suggest building a seperate Colonia fleet though, rather than pay for transfers.

Colonia is a nice place to visit, but I don't want to live there. I play ED because of its realistic Milky Way, and most of that realism is found in and around the Bubble (the catalog stars). I do wish that the Bubble Prime was much smaller, as I think number of inhabited systems is stupidly large, especially for an "MMO" designed to bring players together. If I had it my way, the Bubble would be the size of Colonia, and jump ranges would be much smaller. Getting to Beagle Point should take years, not weeks. I want a Star Trek galaxy, not a Star Wars galaxy. But nobody asked me, and meanwhile the famous Obsidian Ant wants unlimited jump range, so

 

[Sysmon]

Colonia is a nice place to visit, but I don't want to live there. I play ED because of its realistic Milky Way, and most of that realism is found in and around the Bubble (the catalog stars). I do wish that the Bubble Prime was much smaller, as I think number of inhabited systems is stupidly large, especially for an "MMO" designed to bring players together. If I had it my way, the Bubble would be the size of Colonia, and jump ranges would be much smaller. Getting to Beagle Point should take years, not weeks. I want a Star Trek galaxy, not a Star Wars galaxy. But nobody asked me, and meanwhile the famous Obsidian Ant wants unlimited jump range, so

The game was never designed to bring players together, community events were. I recall it was stated at one point that it might be months and years between seeing other players, and we at one time discussed making it impossible to immediately tell the difference between a player and an NPC signature on the radar.

I like the 1:1 scale. I dislike the ease of far travel. If it was Star Trek, we would be supercruising everywhere, travelling for days to get to the next system. Luckily it isn't, but unluckily, there's no real danger of going away from inhabited space and we can zip around the galaxy like stones skipping over a pond. Maybe a bit more involved hyperspace travel and we could enjoy the travel bit more.

S

 

[Wrecked]

I guess if you don't want a narrative to a game I could see why you'd think that. I mean it's almost like other games don't use quests to make you earn something. Why can't you just have all the best gear straight away?

What are we comparing here? Apples or oranges? Right now you're comparing both.

ED isn't an RPG... it's FAR from it. It's an open-world "Blaze your own trail" sandbox with small, repeatable gameplay loops that go on forever. I'm not saying that's bad, but let's call it what it is.

Sure, you could play Skyrim without picking up a single quest, but that is not the intent of the game developers. The devs hand-crafted a detailed and rich story with real, intentional progression to your character that has lasting effects on how you experience the game. ED's story plots do not have such an intention. The players are not intended to follow any storyline for progression and skipping any subplot (thargoids, guardians, etc...) is not a prerequisite to "progressing" your character (or shipacter... really). You experience the "story" through a single news interface or the forums. The closest thing to RPG elements in ED is the grind quests that unlock access to an engineer, a piece of tech, or a system. Even the term "progression" in ED has no real definition. Some say progression is money, some say ships, some say rank, some say... well you get the point. This game isn't about the story, or narrative, or even progress. It's about "blazing your own trail". This is what OP is asking for. The ability to blaze a trail that doesn't punish you for having a limited gameplay time or punish you for wanting to do something other than stare at a loading screen over and over again.

In closing, I want to jump as far as I wish within the selectable start systems represented by the galaxy map and it seems many others do to.