Notice Notice regarding supply and demand of high-end minerals

[Rat Catcher]

I have the ship I paid 50 million credits for. That is 50 million credits out of my available assets, that I expect that ship to earn in a reasonable time. It's even worse in the case of my (now retired) mining 'conda. 200 million spent on the ship, which pre-January "patch," earned its worth over the course of about four hours. Now I wouldn't even bother because since it's main purpose was mass core mining, and having more ores now is much worse than having fewer, it's just extra cost for less profit.

The cost of the ship is the "debt" that the ship itself needs to pay off to have value to have been purchased, equipped, and god forbid engineered in the first place. If it's not gaining me credits, than in a game where credits are the single limiting factor in what I can do in said game, it's setting me back and useless.

In the current balance of the CR earnings in-game, if I spend 1 bil+ on a combat Cutter for PvE, I will need to spend at the very least 30 hours, and more likely approaching 100 hours, in combat, in that ship, in order for that ship to recover the cost I spent on it. My argument is that is obscene, for a video game.

Your calculation is biased: Try this...
My Cutter has cost 800 million to equip - asset value = 800 million- Hull value 120 million (- 10%) = 108 Million
The ship has to earn 12 million before RoI is achieved (until the ship is sold it is an asset with value) anything further earned during its lifetime is pure profit. (apart from insurance rebuys which may have to be 'factored' in)

Sorry, I may have a different angle on 'Assets' in that they actually do not need to earn their purchase price, only the sell loss on the hull

 

[babelfisch]

And this would matter because......?

It's bad game design.

 

[Paiga]

That doesn't matter. You already paid for that from doing something else. What you are saying is ridiculous.

If I got the value doing something else, than that something else has returned its profit.

I disagree I find it obscene you can recover those huge costs in a game like ED which is meant to be played over a long period of time in such a short amount of time. Surely that is all part of playing the game.


If it's all handed to you on a plate. What's the point. You might as well.have a credit button that refills your credits whenever you want. Oh yes we had that with void Opel's. Thankfully FDev have fixed the ridiculous way it worked before. It's still extremely good though, just not as good as it was.

I'm not saying it was perfect as it was. I'm saying nothing earns quite enough. I'd say a 25% or even 50% buff to earnings other than mining would improve things quite a bit. The risk of combat is high compared to its rewards, exploration pays out better now but it's still not great, etc.

Where are you going in elite to need more money than you already can make? You PvP to rebuy in cutter on daily basis, or maybe you attack stations in corvette, you transfer big ships to Colonia? All expansive ships are best in generating more money than anything else, so i m curious.

https://inara.cz/cmdr-fleet/56635/

That said, the expensive/large ships actually are pretty bad for generating money, imho. At least in proportion to their costs. I can probably do more in my Mamba as far is bringing in combat money than a Cutter or Corvette, mining is currently better in a Krait MkII, due to speed of the ship vs a larger ship. Only a jump-range fitted conda is best for something, and mostly that's just getting elsewhere to get engineering materials. That's a whole 'nother kettle of fish, however.

Your calculation is biased: Try this...
My Cutter has cost 800 million to equip - asset value = 800 million- Hull value 120 million (- 10%) = 108 Million
The ship has to earn 12 million before RoI is achieved (until the ship is sold it is an asset with value) anything further earned during its lifetime is pure profit. (apart from insurance rebuys which may have to be 'factored' in)

Sorry, I may have a different angle on 'Assets' in that they actually do not need to earn their purchase price, only the sell loss on the hull

That's actually pretty sensible itself, in assets. I tend to keep ships long-term, however, as you can see in my above link. As it is I'm thinking about selling off a ship or two...

 

[Gutser]

• When selling minerals at a station, the price that is offered is based on the amount currently in your Cargo Hold.

@frontier. I don´t understand this. I know that prices can change with different delivery quantities but therefore must exist a scaling pricelist or the deal is based on a special agreement (going on-board for negotiations with the stationary dealer for permanten special conditions would be nice). But just lower the price automaticly when your cargo is full? Ehm, no chances to optimise the logistic costs, the margin = nobody would deliver to a customer with those "fantasy" conditions in real buisness. It´s kind of frustrating. May you can explain the background of this decision to me, please?

 

[operant]

Because it makes those parts of the game pointless. No point in having them in at all. Might as well remove them.

I shoot at rocks and collect arbitrary stuff with an arbitrary name for an arbitrary price.
Ok... we could just rotate the names so that the other stuff was not pointless.....?

 

[Cagerontwowheels]

Prices for any commodity should depend only on supply and demand.

That said, supply and demand themselves should be allowed to fluctuate with system population, station economy and government types, and of course local states, as well as anything else that typically affects the BGS.

The consequence of this change is that player actions have a meaningful impact on prices in small economies, simply by buying and selling meaningful fractions of their supply and demand. On the other hand, markets in large economies will be more stable, making them more reliable for traders. Which makes sense. High population systems should be any trader’s reliable markets, but sharp traders should be able to drive small economies into favorable prices, then cash in quick.

This. Please. This.
Would make running BGS so much fun, and even the potential for some SERIUS (of the parabellum kind) negotiations between player minor factions!

 

[Eliza]

If these prices are calculated on the cargo, I'm glad to have my Mining AspX speciallized for mining only. To hell with all those BigOnes.
Once again proof, that bigger is NOT always better.

But in general I'm totally with those who are annoyed aboutthat the market is calculated upon the cargo hold of the seller. Totally incomprehensible. Check your economical logics FDev!

 

[jonesskill]

If these prices are calculated on the cargo, I'm glad to have my Mining AspX speciallized for mining only. To hell with all those BigOnes.
Once again proof, that bigger is NOT always better.

But in general I'm totally with those who are annoyed aboutthat the market is calculated upon the cargo hold of the seller. Totally incomprehensible. Check your economical logics FDev!

In Elite?
On Elite dangerous its safe to say that BIG its always worse. Unless you want a exploraconda (Even in this case a PhantomKrait can get really close in Jump Range)
Minning finally made Corvette have a purpose, now its gone again.

 

[Eliza]

In Elite?
On Elite dangerous its safe to say that BIG its always worse. Unless you want a exploraconda (Even in this case a PhantomKrait can get really close in Jump Range)
Minning finally made Corvette have a purpose, now its gone again.

You can still use the Corvette as an AFK-CZ-Grinder.

 

[operant]

It seems that recent 'balance' (lol) changes have 'penalised' the big ships:
passenger missions stacking,
mission number reduction - board flipping and introduction of wing missions
and now this.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I shoot at rocks and collect arbitrary stuff with an arbitrary name for an arbitrary price.
Ok... we could just rotate the names so that the other stuff was not pointless.....?

What has that got to do with it.

 

[Picard2009]

You say "We listen player feedback", you clearly don't because you would not make these changes if you did listen.
You say "We want more new players to play our game", when these players find out what mining use to be and what it is now, you get less players playing this game.

I have enough credits for playing this game for a long time and even i'm looking my way "out".If you are listen anything, listen this: Players do not want this "new" mining change, change it back to what is was and while you're at it, add back the old Community Goals, at least there is something to do until you decide what "bubble head" community goal you want to release next.

 

[babelfisch]

You say "We listen player feedback", you clearly don't because you would not make these changes if you did listen.
You say "We want more new players to play our game", when these players find out what mining use to be and what it is now, you get less players playing this game.

I have enough credits for playing this game for a long time and even i'm looking my way "out".If you are listen anything, listen this: Players do not want this "new" mining change, change it back to what is was and while you're at it, add back the old Community Goals, at least there is something to do until you decide what "bubble head" community goal you want to release next.

Picard2009, the voice of players.

Not mine though.

 

[zimms]

Players do not want this "new" mining change,

Looks to me like some do, some don't.

 

[amigacooke]

Presumably this thread is the acceptable face of salt

 

[Eliza]

You say "We listen player feedback", you clearly don't because you would not make these changes if you did listen.
You say "We want more new players to play our game", when these players find out what mining use to be and what it is now, you get less players playing this game.

I have enough credits for playing this game for a long time and even i'm looking my way "out".If you are listen anything, listen this: Players do not want this "new" mining change, change it back to what is was and while you're at it, add back the old Community Goals, at least there is something to do until you decide what "bubble head" community goal you want to release next.

While we're at it. Why not rotate it back to Version 1.x? No Engineers, No Goldrushing, Ships worth millions but only mission-Rewards in thousands credits and bounties in the hundreds? Where you really had to watch your balance if you can afford to restock your guns / fuel?

Just a thought, though

 

[Old Duck]

While we're at it. Why not rotate it back to Version 1.x? No Engineers, No Goldrushing, Ships worth millions but only mission-Rewards in thousands credits and bounties in the hundreds? Where you really had to watch your balance if you can afford to restock your guns / fuel?

I'd support this, but to make it fair, reset everyone's account as well.

(You think I'm being snarky, but I'm not.)

 

[Mack Winston]

This ... is so weird. I'm glad my local shops don't base their prices on what cash I have ...

It's not weird at all in the commodities or stock market, though, or any bulk market. The markets in Elite Dangerous are not a local shop, they are more like a commodities market. If you turn up at a real world one of these with a market-flooding quantity of goods to trade, your price per tonne will be a lot lower than if you turn up with much less.

 

[AndiBcool]

Ahh well, mining before the patch was the only activity that did actually reward my gametime as some endgameplayer.
The ingametools where always pretty much useless to me.
With the patch change i still spend the same time in a mining field but my rewards are in the best case half of what it was before.
I also need to check out different stations, because if i check prices on 3rd party sites, they are not whats listed there. That increases game time by reducing rewards even more.
Now with the new change the price will even go down more when i arrive with 450t as when i arrive with only 200t ?

I dont know Frontier, why you are trying to keep me away from this game?
You really think i love wasting my gametime ?
If there was something that i would still do in all this boredoom, it was mining because of the good payouts.
Now this is gone aswell and i dont feel to fire on the game anymore.

Its such a shame that this beautyfull game, is missing game content so bad.

 

[Speedcuffs]

It's a game.