Sorry, but earnings are off the scale. Credits have become virtually meaningless they are so easy to get. If anything we should be getting far less, not more.If I got the value doing something else, than that something else has returned its profit.
I'm not saying it was perfect as it was. I'm saying nothing earns quite enough. I'd say a 25% or even 50% buff to earnings other than mining would improve things quite a bit. The risk of combat is high compared to its rewards, exploration pays out better now but it's still not great, etc.
https://inara.cz/cmdr-fleet/56635/
That said, the expensive/large ships actually are pretty bad for generating money, imho. At least in proportion to their costs. I can probably do more in my Mamba as far is bringing in combat money than a Cutter or Corvette, mining is currently better in a Krait MkII, due to speed of the ship vs a larger ship. Only a jump-range fitted conda is best for something, and mostly that's just getting elsewhere to get engineering materials. That's a whole 'nother kettle of fish, however.
That's actually pretty sensible itself, in assets. I tend to keep ships long-term, however, as you can see in my above link. As it is I'm thinking about selling off a ship or two...
Notice Notice regarding supply and demand of high-end minerals
- Thread starter Stephen Benedetti
- Start date
I doubt it. Also I agree with the changes. Much better then before.
Thanks FDev. Ignore the silly salt.
On that, I have to say that if you honestly consider 10 hours gameplay to be an excessive amount of time to recoup the cost of an entire 300m credit ship, I think the problem is primarily with your perception of what is reasonable. Consider that you have the ship after those ten hours for, well for as long as you play the game. Consider also that before this change you could literally recoup considerably more than the cost of a top rated mining Python in one hour, which was frankly insane.
You're talking about ships that used to require six months of gameplay to obtain there and whilst I'd be the first to acknowledge that situation was skewed too far the other way back then in terms of the time taken to see meaningful progress, the current levels of profit available from mining still stack up very well against pretty much any other form of money making in the game and the time/credits ratio is entirely reasonable.
I've said it before - this is not and never has been a game to 'complete' in 20 hours and move on to the next one. ~If you don't like that fine, it's not for me to tell you what to enjoy when you're gaming but you do need to be realistic about what the game's developers consider to be reasonable.
Most forms of earning that provided even half of what was possible with mining before these changes have had the nerf bat applied within a couple of weeks of them being discovered. That's how the game is.
Jeez, we selected the blockade system for a reason. It has 1 station. The demand for LTD's at that station was high, but the market price was 30% of that being paid by the best markets. It is not even remotely on the radar of powerplay/bgs groups.
If you don't believe that preventing 2k tons of LTD's being delivered to a market that requires 9k+ should have an effect on that market then fine. We did the experiment, and we were surprised to see a 40% reduction in demand. As far as we are concerned, the market does not work as per the rules of supply & demand.
Yes, I'm surprised they left it so unbalanced for so long (over a year). Almost like they decided they needed to set the price for something new, say Fleet Carriers, and in doing the analysis of what the market would take found there was a significant imbalance in the credits across the player base ...
in that case it should be reevaluated after each ton sold, not the bulk. a better method would be reevaluating based on your offer (of course not your cargo). a station may have demand but at some point it has enough. they may want to purchase for future, but then it doesn't make sense for them to purchase at high demand prices. i guess that's what that 'tax'(?) aims to simulate (sorry, no direct experience with the new change, and i mine for fun and don't look at credits that much anyway).
another solution would be contracts, where you have an agreed price for a set quantity in a given period. but that's more complicated, possibly exploit prone and possibly a duplication of missions (?).
Deleted member 192138
D
You blocked 2k tons of LTDs coming in with no other known supply provided and observed a drop on demand. There are two options:
1. The drop in demand happened because the blockade was imperfect. Either due to timezones, instancing or gameplay mode some supply got through.
2. The demand mechanics are working even less as would be implied by "supply and demand", possibly due to a bug or possibly due to misleading design choices/descriptions.
I don't care how many stations there are. You can't block solo. I'm trying to figure out, based on your claims, which of the above is going on. If you're not checking the system traffic boards I don't know how you're guaranteeing an isolated test case. The variables you've stated decrease the chances of passive traffic you haven't accounted for, doesn't negate it. I don't know why you're getting snarky that your random claim on an internet forum is being questioned to figure out how consistent your methodology is.
blockades! in ed!
how do you know your blockade had any sensible impact? i mean, did you block solo/pg/other instances in open too, or do you have data on how much bypassed the blockade?
Ian Doncaster: Hold my spreadsheets...
✌I have problems with this...
First the demand based on the ships holdings is crazy. Not even what I’m selling; I can’t even rationalise it as a “bulk discount”. It punishes people that worked hard to afford larger ships.
Secondly, supply and demand changes so rapidly that it is impossible to utilise effectively. Prices being wildly different within a single journey (not even game session) is unmanageable.
Third, you want “gold rush” scenarios. The ingame tools will not provide this. They are not sufficient by any means. 3rd party websites are the only way people can TRY to make any sense of the trade network.
I propose the following:
1. Just ditch the crazy ship cargo spy. It’s not fun.
2 and 3. Take some inspiration from all the player made tools. Overhaul the trade screens and mapping, with something that provides tools close to Eddb. Maybe an intelligence and information broker to supply and buy info from players. Would be fascinating to have market, system and station info built by players and updated by players in a simular manner to cartography (it could be worth more for timely delivery/range).
This could really help your “gold rush” desire - areas with high value should bring with it a plague of pirates. The rush should be a big big deal bringing with it all the crime and chaos of a real one. Make piracy a valid option for PLAYERS. High value zones should be bloody risky! Encourage coop play and wing formation for escorts to get that big sell by publicising the rush with the trade tools I described.
im ranting now. I have a dream...
Im sure it’s fallen on deaf ears anyway. Bah.
First the demand based on the ships holdings is crazy. Not even what I’m selling; I can’t even rationalise it as a “bulk discount”. It punishes people that worked hard to afford larger ships.
Secondly, supply and demand changes so rapidly that it is impossible to utilise effectively. Prices being wildly different within a single journey (not even game session) is unmanageable.
Third, you want “gold rush” scenarios. The ingame tools will not provide this. They are not sufficient by any means. 3rd party websites are the only way people can TRY to make any sense of the trade network.
I propose the following:
1. Just ditch the crazy ship cargo spy. It’s not fun.
2 and 3. Take some inspiration from all the player made tools. Overhaul the trade screens and mapping, with something that provides tools close to Eddb. Maybe an intelligence and information broker to supply and buy info from players. Would be fascinating to have market, system and station info built by players and updated by players in a simular manner to cartography (it could be worth more for timely delivery/range).
This could really help your “gold rush” desire - areas with high value should bring with it a plague of pirates. The rush should be a big big deal bringing with it all the crime and chaos of a real one. Make piracy a valid option for PLAYERS. High value zones should be bloody risky! Encourage coop play and wing formation for escorts to get that big sell by publicising the rush with the trade tools I described.
im ranting now. I have a dream...
Im sure it’s fallen on deaf ears anyway. Bah.
A new player perspective: The cargo-based discount makes initial trade runs seem arbitrary because the in-game tools do not provide any demand information for remote stations, which makes the listed comparison profit pricing misleading. I posted a question on the new player forum and initial respondents said the cargo amount didn't affect pricing, which added confusion. Is the high value mineral change and discussion just a specific example of this?
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Well there always will be. You know as well as I do that when carriers and their price are announced, there will be at least one post from someone who plays for seven minutes every three months, during which he does donation missions in an Adder, yet thinks it's sooo unfair that he can't buy a carrier because it's now essential to his gameplay. He'll probably say something about how he's paid for the game and should be able to enjoy the same content that I can too.
Thing is, as of today you can still make more money mining than virtually any other form of income in the game including half of the ones that have already been nerfed. Anybody who is seriously worried about not being able to afford a carrier would be better off getting in-game and making some credits than whining endlessly on here about how tragic it is that they have to spend ten whole hours earning the credits for a top tier ship
What are the others ml
Bernie Sanders fully supports these actions!
Some ppl will kill me after this BUT I have an idea:
How about make a new trade module ? When equiped in your ship, it will grant acess to all prices for all commodities, demand/offer and so on.
OR
If you guys want immeeeeeeeersiiioooon, make this "tool" avaliable only for haulers ships.
BTW, to unlock this module, you need to sell commodities in more than 150 stations.
#PEACE
How about make a new trade module ? When equiped in your ship, it will grant acess to all prices for all commodities, demand/offer and so on.
OR
If you guys want immeeeeeeeersiiioooon, make this "tool" avaliable only for haulers ships.
BTW, to unlock this module, you need to sell commodities in more than 150 stations.
#PEACE
Ruined how?
It was nonsense that a new player could go from Sidewinder to Condy within a day. What you call ruined, I call fixed. What exactly are players spending their billions of credits on these days anyway?
My most expense ship comes with a 42M CR rebuy. Forget mining, I could earn that within 2 hours by running missions.
Deleted member 192138
D
Ah yeah. Now it's two days. So much has changed. Guess it'll still be 5 months before they have anything engineered though so an experienced player can still dunk their Connie in a Cobra no sweat.
Cold War
Trade War
Revolution
Historic Event
Technological Leap
Colonisation
Only Frontier knows if they will make it into the game at some point.
Trade wars have been a part of the trading and movement of commodities for a long time, they just weren't named "Trade Wars".
They show themselves when Faction A offers an incentive to source and return a commodity and then you see another faction "B" offer a better or larger source and return mission. The biggest issue I see is that the majority of the source and returns are for insane amounts of a commodity. Such as Source and return 5,000 widgets for $2. Even as a wing of 4 mission this is going to take quite some time to accomplish.
Personally I find that if you are patient and get fully allied with both the faction and its super power the missions can be quite profitable.
Why do you care if people get ships faster? It literally has no effect on your experience.
I grinded for months for enough to buy an Anaconda a couple years back because I wanted a sweet ship to explore in. You know what I did with it? Nothing. I could never get enough credits to cover the rebuy, or even upgrade the modules, and at the base level it was too inconvenient for every activity. So what are people doing with a billion credits? Buying 1 ship and A-rating it.
Don't get me wrong, I love playing Elite. But I don't want to be forced into grinding for 400 hours just so I can buy and trick out a ship. Something like 20 hours should be enough. There's tons to do in this game, and I feel like I haven't had time to do any of it because I'm ALWAYS worried about money.
Fdev just thinks that the grind keeps people playing. But if that's taken too far, it does the opposite.