Ships Challenger-ammoless build for CZ

[Christian-A-Hill]

I know it's The Challenger, it's a ship almost no one seems to care much. I love the engine sound, green cockpit and the ship design! Period!

I am trying to build a completely ammoless Challenger to use in conflict zone. I have access to most engineers except Pauline and handful few others. For no ammo obviously lasers are the way to go. I want to focus on taking out shield then power plant. My understanding is if power plant goes, Hull amount really does not matter. Could you offer a Challenger build with moderate engineering or set the record straight if it is not possible? Following are some info to consider:

• I can't use Fixed weapon at all, yet.
• I use hotas with VR.
• I also own a Krait MK2. Am I better off using that instead of Challenger? Hate the Krait interior!
• Currently I am testing Challenger with 3xC1 Beam Long Range mod, 3xC2 Pulse w/Focused+Scramble Spectrum and 1xC3 Burst w/Focused+Oversized. All gimballed. Having difficulties taking shield down and even more difficulties taking modules/hull down. Takes very long time. Either I end up recharging my bi-weave over dozens of time or the battle is over by then. Could never make more than handful kills.

Thanks!

 

[Northpin]

Krait Mk2 is better than the challenger, use it. He has better shields, better PP and PD.
Use only efficient beams. Long range on beams is not that good.

The Krait's 3x large beams will be better in taking down enemy hulls since they have decent piercing value.
Challenger has a single large. Mediums and Small lasers wont cut versus hulls in CZ
Also try to go for easier targets: Eagles, Asps and Vultures. Try to avoid directly engaging Vipers, Alliance ships and Fed bricks, and the large 3 (Annie, Cutter, Vette) unless they're already engaged and damaged.

Still it will take you a lot to kill enemies in CZ since they're highly engineered and they use multiple hrp/mrp
You could try to swap 1 large beam for 1 large MC overcharged with corrosive. You will use resynth to refill amo, but it is cheap for a single MC. and the ammo will last some time if you use the mc only for hulls.

 

[Chaparral]

You might consider going with plasma slug mod for rails and plasma, and practicing a bit to learn fixed. Start in High res on fat targets. Slowly practice until you can hit mid size and smalls. Then move to the czs. You won't have the ability to damage armor significantly on the modded ships in czs without harder hitting weapons.

 

[Innocentius]

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

s.orbis.zone

Short range laser "frag cannon" build. The small turrets handle any pesky eagles what ever you cannot get into your crosshairs. Play around with the engineering of the largest hardpoint to get a good balance on energy per second consumption, but this maybe nice as it is. What you need to do with this ship is to get it into close quarters and then blast with all of those short range inertial impact burst lasers.

I saw your comment about not being able to use fixed weapons at all... once you test those lasers out you will notice that they really are not "fixed" :-D Anyhow for some added jitter you could change them for gimballed lasers instead. You will see :-D

 

[Christian-A-Hill]

Krait Mk2 is better than the challenger, use it. He has better shields, better PP and PD.
Use only efficient beams. Long range on beams is not that good.

The Krait's 3x large beams will be better in taking down enemy hulls since they have decent piercing value.

So....... after much thinking, debating i sold Challenger and decided on Krait MK2 as main ship. Yes I just hate the interior mess with exposed wires and ducktape, the fact remains that it is a good multirole ship. I see lot of people using Fixed weapon with Krait so it is not entirely impossible to learn.

Based on suggestions provided in this post, I tried 3 large beams and indeed it is surprisingly effective against most NPCs! Initially this is what I tried,

Attempt #1
A Firegroup
Firegroup 1: 3xC3 Gimballed Beam; Grade 1 Long Range
Firegroup 2: 1xC2 Plasma Accelerator, no mod

B Firegroup
Firegroup 1: 3xC3 Gimballed Beam; Grade 1 Long Range
Firegroup 2: 1xC2 Rail Gun, no mod

Probably not a good idea to try to learn both Plasma and Railgun together. But wanted to have the taste of it so I dont get bored trying to learn just one fixed. After about an hour trying both of them I have realized Railguns are just annoying LOL. I seemed to be able to land few extra shots with Plasma. Also I have noticed very fast Distributor drain and heat issue.

Attempt #2
A Firegroup
Firegroup 1: 1xC3 Plasma; no mod
Firegroup 2: 2xC3 Gimballed Burst; Focused, 2xC2 Gimballed Pulse; Focused

Didnt have much time to try this out yet. I put the Plasma in the center hardpoint of Krait. Only tested the Distro draw and seems to be firing longer than the 3 beams config.

Any suggestion for these 2 loadout? Also the SLF is Taipan Gimballed Beam, flown by a recently promoted Dangerous NPC pilot.

 

[Northpin]

Use 3x Large Gimbaled Beams, Efficient engineering - at least G3, G5 preferably
For the 2 mediums, try 2 plasma, efficient mod too. if you have troubles hitting with plasma, use focused engineering - it will dramatically increase projectile speed and it will be easier to land shots, but the distributor draw will be sensibly higher.

 

[Christian-A-Hill]

Use 3x Large Gimbaled Beams, Efficient engineering - at least G3, G5 preferably
For the 2 mediums, try 2 plasma, efficient mod too. if you have troubles hitting with plasma, use focused engineering - it will dramatically increase projectile speed and it will be easier to land shots, but the distributor draw will be sensibly higher.

Trying the build on edsy.org with Efficient Beam and Plasma, it does look much better on Heat and Distro draw. So basically I have to be real up close all the time within 600m range to make significant damage with Beams?

I really like the increased shot speed with Focused Plasma and out of the world Armor Piercing value. LOL. If i go with Plasma slug Exp, I seem to lose some dmg with Focused mod. On the other hand, if i dont go Plasma Slug, i can use Target Lock Breaker on one and Dazzle Shell on the other.
So the final weapon loadout I will stick with for some time to hone fixed weapon skill,

A Firegroup
Firegroup 1: 3xC3 Gimballed Beam; Efficeint+Thernal Vent
Firegroup 2: 2xC2 Plasma Accelrator; Efficeint+Dazzle,TLB

I noticed there is Advanced Plasma Accelerator for size 3 only which has 300 Ammo capacity and shorter burst speed. This seem to have lower Thermal and Distro draw. Wouldnt this be better instead of 2 medium Plasma? Also when I go to outfitting I do not see any Advanced Plasma Accelerator. Has this been taken out but edsy.org have not updated yet?

Either way I believe its time for me to go on some Mat Farming.

 

[Ethaidan]

Why are you set on an Ammo less build for CZs? I often use a pretty standard PvE Krait for CZs and very rarely run out of Ammo, and it only takes ~12-15min to clear a medium intensity CZ alone.

2x C3 Beams; G5 efficient
1x C3 MC G5 overcharged / corrosive
2x C2 MC G5 overcharged / incendiary
1x C6 fighter bay

I have used a different load:
3x C3 APAs G5 focused
2x C2 Imperial Hammers G1 long range
1x C6 fighter bay

But the second one takes too long to finish off all the fast sm/med enemies.

 

[Speedcuffs]

Why are you set on an Ammo less build for CZs?

Fair point.
I have laser Vette for RES and CNB etc. Would never use it in a CZ, in a CZ I think you want to take the enemy down fast.

I would suggest to OP, whatever ship/weapons you go for, always consider a small gimballed MC, engineered for High Capacity/Corrosive. It will improve the effectiveness of all your weapons.

 

[Northpin]

Trying the build on edsy.org with Efficient Beam and Plasma, it does look much better on Heat and Distro draw. So basically I have to be real up close all the time within 600m range to make significant damage with Beams?

Not really.
A G5 efficient beam will do about the same damage as Long Range Beam at about 1.3-1.4km. Damage will be lower and lower as you increase distance, but even at 2km the damage is ok-ish
But, since the efficient beams will stress the PD a lot less, you can fire them more and compensate for the lower damage in the 1.3-2.0km range.

 

[Christian-A-Hill]

Why are you set on an Ammo less build for CZs? I often use a pretty standard PvE Krait for CZs and very rarely run out of Ammo, and it only takes ~12-15min to clear a medium intensity CZ alone.

Really fair point indeed. I have few reasons of my own.
1. It is different.
2. Challenging but Achievable.
3. Practicing Fixed Weapon so i will be wasting lot of ammo.
4. Logout at Res and pick up where I left off on next login. I know silly reason but nice to start shooting instead of travelling out of station. Why make frequent visit to stations if dont have to.

When I started unlocking Engineers, I did mod all my Multicannons to G5. I used mixed loadout with Corrosive, Oversized and Incendiary mods. Great result taking down just about anything. Multis are super useful, but why not try something different.

 

[Ethaidan]

Really fair point indeed. I have few reasons of my own.
1. It is different.
2. Challenging but Achievable.
3. Practicing Fixed Weapon so i will be wasting lot of ammo.
4. Logout at Res and pick up where I left off on next login. I know silly reason but nice to start shooting instead of travelling out of station. Why make frequent visit to stations if dont have to.

When I started unlocking Engineers, I did mod all my Multicannons to G5. I used mixed loadout with Corrosive, Oversized and Incendiary mods. Great result taking down just about anything. Multis are super useful, but why not try something different.

Ah Yes, Rez sites are a different thing - your title mentions CZs, where fast and efficient killing is better (if you're actually trying to win a war). And once you've cleared a CZ you might as well pop to a station to load up while the CZ resets.

I use multiple different ships and weapon configurations for non-CZ combat, where speed is not always as important - Python fragboat for mission running (quick dispatch of Anacondas); Phantom PA/Rail/Packhound for piracy; Chieftain PA/Rail/Cannon/Torpedo for big game hunting; and an as yet unused Mamba with... still deciding.

 

[Christian-A-Hill]

Ah Yes, Rez sites are a different thing - your title mentions CZs, where fast and efficient killing is better.

This post started out with seeking help for ammoless Challenger in CZ, but seems like has branched off to much bigger usable build.

So if I am understanding right both CZ and Res sites require much different build. For CZ need fast kill, higher defense and Res sites not so heavy defense and ok-ish weaponry.

Technically though I can use fast kill build for both CZ and Res assuming I don't care about restocking frequently.

Thanks to everyone I have a pretty good idea which weapon I want to try out then decide on a build based what I like best and effectiveness. I will jump up in with 3 C3 efficient beams, C2 plasma focused and practice for a while.

 

[Viscera]

Advanced plasma is a power play unlock item. I suggest logging in on inara to find out more about it.

 

[Sup3rfluiD]

Another thing to note is you're gimping the damage potential quite significantly by choosing focussed mod on pa's, apa's even more so.
If you concentrate on controlling your range more you fairly quickly learn to land your shots with efficient and your beams will also benefit from staying close.
Try 3 c3 efficient pa's with tlb, dispersal and oversize or thermal conduit, and 2 efficient c2 beams.
You will bust an average npc shielding with 4/5 passes and the mats for resynth are all very common elements.
The extra damage will very quickly offset a few missed shots.
It will also help with your distro management and heat load.

 

[Trotsky2112]

Hate the Krait interior!

But it has a coffee machine!

 

[Christian-A-Hill]

But it has a coffee machine!

Only if i could bind a key to start brewing coffee and have covas alart me when it was done.

 

[Innocentius]

Fair point.
I have laser Vette for RES and CNB etc. Would never use it in a CZ, in a CZ I think you want to take the enemy down fast.

I have a full laser vette (pure PVE of course) that I often took into CZ community goals (been exploring a while now). It was easy to get into top ranks with that: used to get into top 1% with relatively minor effort when that was a thing. It was something like this:

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

s.orbis.zone

That cargo hold and collector were used to collect engineering materials when I wanted to, but of course those can be switched out if wanted. When I used a bank I switched to secondary firegroup and used the thermal vent beam as a heatsink and if some damage remained it can always be repaired before weapons start malfunctioning. The turrets provide healing to any potential wingmates.

 

[Innocentius]

This post started out with seeking help for ammoless Challenger in CZ, but seems like has branched off to much bigger usable build.

So if I am understanding right both CZ and Res sites require much different build. For CZ need fast kill, higher defense and Res sites not so heavy defense and ok-ish weaponry.

CZ and RES builds are basically identical. People are over theorizing here. If there is any difference it is that in CZ you cannot "decide" to rest up between fights, but are forced into new fights constantly, but anything that you build up for CZ will do just as fine in RES also. See my Vette above for ammoless build or the challenger I provided in one of the earlier posts. I have made and used quite a few pve ammoless builds in CZs and those have been VERY competitive in any of the community goals I have taken part in.

 

[Christian-A-Hill]

CZ and RES builds are basically identical. People are over theorizing here. If there is any difference it is that in CZ you cannot "decide" to rest up between fights, but are forced into new fights constantly, but anything that you build up for CZ will do just as fine in RES also.

That is exactly what my initial thinking was and the reason for focusing on CZ build. I did see your Challenger ammoless build with all Burst laser and was intrigued by it even though I have yet to see a burst heavy build. I am trying to decide on a long term build and engineer the heck out of it so not wasting materials on different weapon load out just to try out.
Based on the some of the suggestions provided and reading forums, this is my current build I am trying for last couple of days.
https://is.gd/22v0fr

I have not unlocked Bill Turner yet. So no engineering for the PAs at this moment. Also practicing fixed PAs in Res sites. I seem to land more shots on slower ships obviously. I like the fact that I can use Plasma Slug to go fully ammoless. Also noticed that I have trouble staying within 500m-800m. Probably could get better with G5 drives. In the immediate near future plan to go exploring to unlock Paulin.

I see you are using Efficient beams in your Vette which has 600m. No issue staying on top of target with that heavy mass?